What is "The Law"?

[Waggles]

Galatians 3:21  Is the law then against the promises of God? Be it not so: for if a law had been given which could make alive, verily righteousness would have been by law. 
22  But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise from faith in Jesus Christ might be given to the believing. 
23  But before the faith came, we were kept in ward under law, shut up unto the faith to be revealed. 
24  So that the law is become our tutor unto Christ, that we be justified from faith. 
25  But the faith having come, we are no more under a tutor. 

 

[MrBear]

34 minutes ago, Waggles said:

Galatians 3:21  Is the law then against the promises of God? Be it not so: for if a law had been given which could make alive, verily righteousness would have been by law. 
. 

 

Thank you brother I was praying you would see and the lord doesn’t disappoint 

Paul answers his own question 

“ be it not so”

I personally love this verse

He says is the law against the promises of  God?

be it NOT SO ( the promise of god is eternal salvation through Abraham’s seed Jesus with the resurrection)

 

then what he says after that is to the Pharisees he is saying doing outward signs will NOT give you resurrection  without faith in Jesus if it did than the law without faith in Jesus would have been Righteousness

thats why he says “ could make alive “

This whole chapter is about faith in Jesus that’s why he starts with

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? ( Pharisees)Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified

he then talks about the law being a curse because we can’t possibly follow all the laws perfect then talks about how the curse is lifted with Jesus, because Jesus is going to be our high priest in heaven and sins will be forgiven 

NOT Do away with the commandments of God

this leads to the ?”schoolmaster” verses the baton has been passed we no longer need the schoolmaster as the law because we receive a living walking law in the flesh to show us how to do the law ?

Ty brother

I honestly thought you were being deceived but I see that you are on the right path

Praise the Lord

SHALOM❤️

Edited November 16, 2021 by MrBear

[Waggles]

2 hours ago, MrBear said:

because we receive a living walking law in the flesh to show us how to do the law ?

We do not receive the law in our flesh but by the Spirit who dwells within us - as with Pentecostal Christians.

We fulfill the law by walking in the Spirit which gives us the law of liberty and releases us from the ordinances of the OT law. 

The temple is gone and so are Saturday sabbaths.

Romans 2:28  For the Jew is not one manifestly, neither is circumcision manifestly in the flesh; 
29  but the one in secret is a Jew; and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit not in letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

[MrBear]

edit:: I had a lot to say , But the spirit told me he will see what he wants to see and it may be revealed to him at a later time

 So Brother I’m going to keep you in my prayers ?

SHALOM❤️

Edited November 17, 2021 by MrBear

[I am no one]

On 11/9/2021 at 9:06 PM, Bawb said:

When Sha'ul (You probably know him as Paul) spoke about the law, most people make the wrong assumptions... Please see the different "laws" spoken about in the New testament:

1. The Law of Moses (YHVH's WRITTEN Torah, that is, his instructions in righteousness) (Think of the 10 Commandments) It is not ­the law of sin and death. However, if we choose to follow our carnal, sinful human natures, and to choose to disregard our Creator’s words, then this will bring us under the law of sin and death, which is the negative consequences of our actions. These laws are believed to have been revealed by God to the Israelites at biblical Mount Sinai.
The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1. “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3. “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4. “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5. “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6. “You shall not murder.
7. “You shall not commit adultery.
8. “You shall not steal.
9. “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”
        
2. Halakha - Also known as the Oral Torah. These laws believed to have been transmitted orally prior to their later compilation in texts such as the Mishnah, Talmud, and rabbinic codes. They are laws of human origin, including rabbinic decrees, interpretations, customs, etc. The yoke of Torah was the Oral Law that became so burdensome that no one person could follow it. This oral law was the fence around the law that Yeshua railed against. Healing on the Sabbath, eating (plucking grain whilst walking thru the fields) etc was the law that Yeshua came to correct. (See "Heavy burdens, hard to bear).

3. The law of sin and death - THE ONE THAT WAS NAILED TO THE TREE! This is simply a matter of the “law” of cause and effect, that is, one reaps what one sows, or for every action there is a reaction. To wit, Paul states that “the wages of sin is death” (Rom 6:23). Ezekiel states that the soul that sins will die (Ezek 18:4). John goes on to say that “sin is the violation of Torah-law” (1 John 3:4). Therefore, the law of sin and death is yielding to our carnal nature that is prone to sin the results of which brings the consequences of sinful actions as prescribed by the Torah the end result of which is death or extinguishment of life and eternal separation from Almighty YeHoVah.

4. And of course civil law: You know, like when the Romans arrested Paul.  Among the civil law rights of a citizen were freedom from beatings without trial, the right to be tried before the emperor rather than in a local court of law, and the right to not be executed by crucifixion. 

Every time the Apostle Paul wrote about the law, it was NOT always YHVH's Law (The Torah or Law of Moses)

Here is a more comprehensive list of "laws" That Paul made up names for:

The Law of God (Torah): See Rom 3:31, 7:22-25, 8:7

The Laws in Apostle Paul's letters that he made up names for:
The law of Sin: See Rom 7:23-25
The law of Sin and Death: See Rom 8:2
The law of the Spirit of Life: See Rom 8:2
The law of Faith: See Rom 3:27
The law of Righteousness: See Rom 9:31
The law of Christ: See 1st Cor 9:21

the right use and purpose of the law

1 Tim 1:1-20 (KJV) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Howbeit for this because I obtained mercy, that in my first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightiest war a good warfare;
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

[Bawb]

5 minutes ago, I am no one said:

the right use and purpose of the law

1 Tim 1:1-20 (KJV) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
 

"The End of the law" is another example of a HORRIBLE translation.

 The word "end", in Romans 10:4, is a translation of the Greek word "telos" (Strong's Greek #5056). It is found in the Greek new testament a total of 42 times. The vast majority of the time, it does mean "end".

By and large, Christianity has accepted Romans 10:4 to mean that the law has come to an end (meaning that they are no longer required to keep the law). Hooray, we can be lawless now! Think about it, who would be the one telling you this?

The word "telos", in Romans 10:4, was inaccurately translated. It would more accurately be translated as: goal, purpose, outcome, or result. 

There are others who believe that the word "telos", in Romans 10:4, if translated any other way than "end", would be incorrect. They contend that the law is no longer for the purpose of righteousness, but rather, the Messiah is now our means of righteousness. While it is true that YeHoVah, our Heavenly Father, is the one who makes it possible for us to be righteous, through His Son Yeshua Hamashiach (commonly referred to a "Jesus the Messiah", the law is still the standard by which we measure our progress (as it has always been).

Consider the facts:

Of the 42 times that the Greek word "telos" is found in the Greek new testament, there are at least 3 other examples (besides Romans 10:4) where it would seem to be more accurately translated as "goal" "purpose" "outcome" or "result", instead of "end". Let's take a look at these 3 verses. I will first quote each verse from the King James Version, and then I will quote it from "The Scriptures", published by the Institute for Scriptural Research (ISR)...

1Timothy 1:5 KJV - Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned

1Timothy 1:5 ISR - Now the goal of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief

Next is James 5:11:

James 5:11KJV Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of YeHoVah; that YeHoVah is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

James 5:11 ISR - See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyob and saw the purpose of YeHoVah, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.

The third verse is 1Kepha 1:9

1Peter 1:9 KJV - Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1Kepha 1:9 ISR - Obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.

Now, let's return to Romans 10:4

Romans 10:4 KJV - For the Messiah is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The English word "end" can mean "goal", but it is also confusing, because the word "end" usually means "termination". 

There is another idea, that the law has not been done away, but it is no longer for the purpose of righteousness. If that were the case, however, then it would seem that the next question would be, "If the law is not for righteousness, then what is its purpose"? Would it not seem that the next logical step would be, that if the law is not for righteousness, then it is now "okay to sin"?

[grahampaul]

21 minutes ago, I am no one said:

the right use and purpose of the law

1 Tim 1:1-20 (KJV) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Howbeit for this because I obtained mercy, that in my first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightiest war a good warfare;
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Nice Words,2000 yrs gone by and its still as plain as plain could be.thank you Lord .nowadays i try two or three times to correct wrong teaching then if its rejected its a case of,well sort out your own salvation.the doors allways open.

[Leonardo Von]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:06 PM, Bawb said:

1. The Law of Moses (YHVH's WRITTEN Torah, that is, his instructions in righteousness) (Think of the 10 Commandments) It is not ­the law of sin and death.

All the law of the Old Testament is the law of the sin and death (2Cor 3:7,9) because, as the men can't, by themselves, fulfill their precepts, the result is only condemnation and death (see Rom 5:20).

[Bawb]

3 minutes ago, Leonardo Von said:

All the law of the Old Testament is the law of the sin and death (2Cor 3:7,9) because, as the men can't, by themselves, fulfill their precepts, the result is only condemnation and death (see Rom 5:20).

I guess so much for animal sacrifices for sin then in the First Writings?

[MrBear]

4 hours ago, Bawb said:

"The End of the law" is another example of a HORRIBLE translation.

 The word "end", in Romans 10:4, is a translation of the Greek word "telos" (Strong's Greek #5056). It is found in the Greek new testament a total of 42 times. The vast majority of the time, it does mean "end".

By and large, Christianity has accepted Romans 10:4 to mean that the law has come to an end (meaning that they are no longer required to keep the law). Hooray, we can be lawless now! Think about it, who would be the one telling you this?

The word "telos", in Romans 10:4, was inaccurately translated. It would more accurately be translated as: goal, purpose, outcome, or result. 

There are others who believe that the word "telos", in Romans 10:4, if translated any other way than "end", would be incorrect. They contend that the law is no longer for the purpose of righteousness, but rather, the Messiah is now our means of righteousness. While it is true that YeHoVah, our Heavenly Father, is the one who makes it possible for us to be righteous, through His Son Yeshua Hamashiach (commonly referred to a "Jesus the Messiah", the law is still the standard by which we measure our progress (as it has always been).

Consider the facts:

Of the 42 times that the Greek word "telos" is found in the Greek new testament, there are at least 3 other examples (besides Romans 10:4) where it would seem to be more accurately translated as "goal" "purpose" "outcome" or "result", instead of "end". Let's take a look at these 3 verses. I will first quote each verse from the King James Version, and then I will quote it from "The Scriptures", published by the Institute for Scriptural Research (ISR)...

1Timothy 1:5 KJV - Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned

1Timothy 1:5 ISR - Now the goal of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief

Next is James 5:11:

James 5:11KJV Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of YeHoVah; that YeHoVah is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

James 5:11 ISR - See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyob and saw the purpose of YeHoVah, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.

The third verse is 1Kepha 1:9

1Peter 1:9 KJV - Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1Kepha 1:9 ISR - Obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.

Now, let's return to Romans 10:4

Romans 10:4 KJV - For the Messiah is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The English word "end" can mean "goal", but it is also confusing, because the word "end" usually means "termination". 

There is another idea, that the law has not been done away, but it is no longer for the purpose of righteousness. If that were the case, however, then it would seem that the next question would be, "If the law is not for righteousness, then what is its purpose"? Would it not seem that the next logical step would be, that if the law is not for righteousness, then it is now "okay to sin"?

My Brother, there are people you cannot reach, it is true that the word ‘end’ can be used in the Bible for goal

they are not on that level yet, having spiritual sword fights with scriptures isn’t doing anyone any good

the Bible also used the word ‘ until’ 

in Gen 49;10 

The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until he to whom it belongs shall come and the obedience of the nations shall be his.

doesn’t mean it goes away it means it’s a goal

Lets not fight, but pray that the scales fall from thier eyes and hope that the Lord uses these well explained verses to encourage the guests to the forums and our fellow members or just people that were on the fence about Torah to research Paul and not make the same mistakes these Brothers are because “we have the Holy Spirit in all of us that reveals meanings “I went to bed last night listening to a sermon and an hour into my sleep I was awakened to the pastor saying this exact phrase( the Lord is truly mysterious in his works)??

But at this point my Brother I see this as spiritual warfare to get you off your path- let them go their own path

you defined it well ,.  And I give respect for you trying to explain it…

But don’t let them use cut and pasted misinterpreted verses to make a spectacle, so I encourage you to not let them grieve your spirit Brother?

at the end of the day when we are all standing in front of Jesus and you and I are wrong we lose nothing, but if they are then …. Let’s just pray for them ??

I won’t be encouraging this type  of sword fighting with Bible verses anymore myself.✋

SHALOM❤️

Edited November 17, 2021 by MrBear