AdHoc - Regarding, "There is NO rapture for the Jews.

[The Light]

22 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

I believe preterism's 70AD fulfillment is a teaching in error

"Future" events unfulfilled below

Matthew 24:15 Daniel's Abomination Of Desolation 

Matthew 24:21 Great Tribulation

Matthew 24:29-31 Second Coming of Jesus Christ

Exactly. I agree.

But do you understand the words...."BUT BEFORE ALL THESE" Luke is talking about the events of 70 AD.

Now look at the words of Matt 24

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Matthew 24 after nation rising against nation and famines and pestilence says....THEN SHALL THEY DELEIVER YOU UP TO BE AFFLICETED.

Luke 21 says after nation rising against nation and famines and pestilence....BUT BEFORE ALL THESE.

So Matthew 24 is talking about endtimes.......(THEN). Luke 21 is talking about the events of 70AD.....BUT BEFORE ALL THESE.

Brother, I see so many details of the scripture missed, it is no wonder that people can't see there is a pretribulation rapture and two raptures. All you have to do is read what it says. Pay attention to EXACTLY what the scripture says.

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Exactly. I agree.

But do you understand the words...."BUT BEFORE ALL THESE" Luke is talking about the events of 70 AD.

Now look at the words of Matt 24

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Matthew 24 after nation rising against nation and famines and pestilence says....THEN SHALL THEY DELEIVER YOU UP TO BE AFFLICETED.

Luke 21 says after nation rising against nation and famines and pestilence....BUT BEFORE ALL THESE.

So Matthew 24 is talking about endtimes.......(THEN). Luke 21 is talking about the events of 70AD.....BUT BEFORE ALL THESE.

Brother, I see so many details of the scripture missed, it is no wonder that people can't see there is a pretribulation rapture and two raptures. All you have to do is read what it says. Pay attention to EXACTLY what the scripture says.

I disagree, Matthew chapter 24 & Luke chapter 21 are talking about future events unfulfilled

There will be one future resurrection of all, and catching up of believers, this takes place at the future second coming of Jesus Christ, immediately after the tribulation

Edited December 28, 2021 by truth7t7

[The Light]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

I disagree, Matthew chapter 24 & Luke chapter 21 are talking about future events unfulfilled

There will be one future resurrection of all, and catching up of believers, this takes place at the future second coming of Jesus Christ, immediately after the tribulation

You can disagree all you want. But that doesn't change the FACT that in Luke 21 it says BUT BEFORE ALL THESE. I understand what those words mean. It can't get any more simple than this. I don't understand the denial of the facts.

BUT BEFORE ALL THESE means BUT BEFORE ALL THESE.

But trust me, you are not alone. I see plenty of strange denial of the facts. I just can't comprehend it. But I do comprehend why people don't see pretrib rapture. They see what they want to see. They don't see what the scripture says.

[WilliamL]

On 12/26/2021 at 2:19 PM, The Light said:

I believe there is a picture of the rapture at the trump of God or voice of God in the first verse.

Rev 4

 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

There are 24 elders in heaven with crowns.

Everything in verses 1 and 2 refer singularly to John. No mention at all of multitudes of people; that is, until Rev. 7. Guess John didn't happen to either see or mention them in Rev. 4? As far as the elders, their are elders in heaven now.

On 12/26/2021 at 2:19 PM, The Light said:

I'm presuming, with evidence, that the Church will escape ALL THESE THINGS, that will come to pass. Here's the best evidence there is.

Luke 21

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Your presumption here is that the escape cannot initially be on earth. And yet, Rev. 12 prophesies precisely that. And the types and shadows of the OT do also. For example, the Israelites escaped from Egypt during the tribulation of that day, and were tried and tested in the wilderness for 7+ weeks. Only then did the LORD descend from heaven in clouds and fire and quake; just like He will do again at the 6th Seal.

For a detailed look at the tremendous parallels between the former and latter descents of the Lord in judgment, go here:

48. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 1

First of a four-part series that shows how the events of the Israelite Exodus out of Egypt, and their subsequent wilderness sojourn and conquest of Canaan, allegorically portray in great detail the full sequence of events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ. Begins with The 7 Spirits.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1980-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-1/

also here:

3. The Kingdoms of Solomon and Jesus Christ

    Shows that all of the primary events of King Davidʼs latter days, and up through the early events of the reign of King Solomon, allegorically portray the sequence of events of the End Times from the Great Tribulation to the establishment of Christ’s own kingdom-reign from Jerusalem.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/842-the-kingdoms-of-solomon-and-jesus-christ/

 

[The Light]

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Everything in verses 1 and 2 refer singularly to John. No mention at all of multitudes of people; that is, until Rev. 7. Guess John didn't happen to either see or mention them in Rev. 4?

Exactly. Like a said, a picture of the rapture. And yet we see kings and priests in Rev 5. And the Bible explains the Bible.

Rev 1

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

As far as the elders, their are elders in heaven now.

With crowns that they got at the appearing of Christ? Did we already miss the rapture?

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Your presumption here is that the escape cannot initially be on earth. And yet, Rev. 12 prophesies precisely that.

Rev 12 is talking about the remnant of the nation of Israel that go through the wrath of God in a place of protection. The Church is already raptured before the seals are opened which means they are gone before the 70th week of Daniel. The twelve tribes across the earth will be raptured pre wrath at the 6th seal. Those two together make up the great multitude from every nation. Only unbelievers and those that flee in the nation of Israel go through the wrath of God. And those that flee in Israel are in a place of protection. None of Gods people are appointed to wrath.

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

And the types and shadows of the OT do also. For example, the Israelites escaped from Egypt during the tribulation of that day, and were tried and tested in the wilderness for 7+ weeks. Only then did the LORD descend from heaven in clouds and fire and quake; just like He will do again at the 6th Seal.

Pretty awesome that you are able to understand what types and shadows are. The picture of the rapture in Rev 4:1 is a type and shadow of the rapture of the Church.

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:14 PM, The Light said:

On 12/30/2021 at 10:50 AM, WilliamL said:

And the types and shadows of the OT do also. For example, the Israelites escaped from Egypt during the tribulation of that day, and were tried and tested in the wilderness for 7+ weeks. Only then did the LORD descend from heaven in clouds and fire and quake; just like He will do again at the 6th Seal.

Pretty awesome that you are able to understand what types and shadows are. The picture of the rapture in Rev 4:1 is a type and shadow of the rapture of the Church.

As far as the types and shadows I cite, I am just following in the footsteps of Paul's own teachings, particularly those in Galatians and Hebrews. Hebrews 12:18ff. especially.

Whereas you claim of Rev. 4:1 being a type of the Rapture of the Church is based solely upon your word only, without any scripture that actually says that.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

As far as the types and shadows I cite, I am just following in the footsteps of Paul's own teachings, particularly those in Galatians and Hebrews. Hebrews 12:18ff. especially.

Whereas you claim of Rev. 4:1 being a type of the Rapture of the Church is based solely upon your word only, without any scripture that actually says that.

My word only. Hardly. 

Exodus 19.

[WilliamL]

7 minutes ago, The Light said:

My word only. Hardly. 

Exodus 19.

  Exodus 19 just confirms what I said earlier:

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

  On 12/30/2021 at 10:50 AM, WilliamL said:

And the types and shadows of the OT do also. For example, the Israelites escaped from Egypt during the tribulation of that day, and were tried and tested in the wilderness for 7+ weeks. Only then did the LORD descend from heaven in clouds and fire and quake [Exodus 19]; just like He will do again at the 6th Seal.