Giving

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

I think I see your thoughts here @Marathoner which are good ones. I'm going to throw a few "what ifs" out there.

What if the person to whom you gave never goes away and keeps asking for more? Do we give indefinitely simply because they continue to ask or do we begin to question why their need never goes away?

What if " giving to any who ask as I am able" involves the support of a behavior, habit or lifestyle that is harmful to the recipient?

What if we gave everything we own away? Is this foolishness or wisdom?

I've given all of my possessions away before, brother. I've also lost everything on more than one occasion. I understand that some experience a connection to "stuff," and it's not my place to judge anyone else regarding that. I don't harbor such an attachment myself on account of parting ways with whatever I had over and over again. Stuff can and will be replaced over time, as I have seen. 

You raise hypotheticals, but nothing of the sort has actually occurred. Let it come to pass first, yes? I'm not the judge of my neighbor.   

[Marathoner]

Here's an excellent example. A long time ago after my adopted mother passed away, the Lord moved upon me to distribute all of the goods and livestock on her land to any and all who desired them. I had no idea how to begin but the Lord made this task exceedingly easy: a veritable army of helpers arrived at the gate the morning of the following day. "How can we help?", they asked. 

Within 24 hours, all of our goods and livestock were distributed among the community. Because her estranged eldest daughter was legally entitled to her land --- I informed this woman of her mother's passing moments after it happened --- I discharged my duty in a manner pleasing to the Lord, who intended for me to be unencumbered so I would move on to where He sent me next. Nothing remained to burden nor tie me to a particular location. 

We walk as He calls us, and Christ called me to be unfettered by goods, property, or other forms of entanglement. When it's time to go, it's time to go. The Lord equipped me for this over the course of many years spent leading a transient lifestyle. The difference between then and now?

I know when it's time to move along. In the past, it just happened that way. Like a whirlwind, all of my affairs in a given place would come to an end and I had no choice but to leave. Things are radically different now.

When my time in this city is finished, I'll give what I have accumulated away to whomever desires it before I move along. All I need are enough clothes and a few things for the journey. Here's the truth:

Everything I have was given to me. The Lord provides everything I need.  

Edited November 30, 2021 by Marathoner

[Bawb]

Maybe one-on-one basis is the best. Possibly keeping food store gift cards (ones that will not allow alcohol and cigarette purchases) on hand for homeless and poor folks in stores. Donating food to food banks? Maybe Habitat for Humanity (donating time instead of money)? Also, you can check out a charity here: https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=1887

It's always best to know how your money is used and how much actually goes to the cause as opposed to how much is paying the salary of the the Charity's CEO also.

Finally, the American Red Cross has been flagged in many cities for their ties to organized crime... 

[Starise]

16 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

We all want to know when we give it goes to a good cause and isnt being thrown away by tge recipient. I dont think thats judging, but rather wise stewerdship of our money.

Exactly.

16 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

But, God is the ultimate steward and knows where that money is going. I know most if the time being wise stewards is a good idea, but theres times where we need to rely on Gods understanding and not ours, and really being in constant prayer is the only way i know of as to know when to hesitate and when to just give blindly.

I agree. Any time we give money to anything we trust that individual or entity to put it to good use.At that point it's out of our hands.At Christmas time we give gifts to people who in many cases probably don't need the thing we give them which never made much sense to me because unless it's a child we are talking about, we are probably the best judges of what we really want, and why the lines are long in the return sections of stores or online returns after Christmas. If anyone were going to give me one of those gifts that people like to re gift. Save us both the trouble and give the money instead to someone who needs it. I'll buy my own stuff thank you very much  In fact this is what I do. I buy it and my wife wraps it up for Christmas lol.

All of that is what I call mostly frivolous giving.Meanwhile there are truly unemployed people in need who wonder how they will pay their next electric bill or rent. I don't think there is any question they could use the money. Most of us have very limited giving ability. Homeless hungry people are everywhere. This is where I think God's leading comes into play.We can't feed everyone. Many of us probably have a tough time just meeting our own expenses. Those that have a little extra often wonder where it can best be used for giving.

16 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Going to the bible i can think of one such example, in the story of Elijah. When he came out of the wilderness he came upon a widow and her son. She had enough food for one meal for her and her son, and that was it. She didnt know elijah from adam, and had absolutely no reason, or obligation, to give Elijah anything, especially the last of their food, except for the prodding of God.

And she questioned it, which we all would, as by our understanding it was a poor investment. but in the end she gave to Elijah, and that gift ended up saving both hers, and her sons, life, and more then once. But she had no way of knowing that at the time, she acted entirely upon faith.

 

I remember reading this and wondering why this woman didn't have some apprehension. Maybe she did. She went with that unseen  spidey sense from God we can't explain. I can relate to it but I can't explain it except to say I knew when I was supposed to do it.

[Starise]

16 hours ago, Marathoner said:

I've given all of my possessions away before, brother. I've also lost everything on more than one occasion. I understand that some experience a connection to "stuff," and it's not my place to judge anyone else regarding that. I don't harbor such an attachment myself on account of parting ways with whatever I had over and over again. Stuff can and will be replaced over time, as I have seen. 

 

In one bible story we see Jesus telling the rich man to give away everything he has and follow Him. Some see this as a blanket statement to everyone and why there are some quasi Christian communes where people attempt to live with shared possessions having given up everything to the commune.

It only stands to reason this can't be intended for everyone.....because the recipients of the things this man sold or gave away would ALSO be required to sell or give away  those belongings. I imagine plenty have unwillingly had to part with their stuff through natural disasters and economic woes. I don't see "stuff" as something to collect and hoard. I see stuff as functional things I need to live, food, clothing, shelter. We could make plenty of sub categories based on this. Food needs to be varied to be healthy, clothing needs to be varied to cover the seasons, shelter must include a bathroom and kitchen utensils. Part of the draw in having a place to live and sleep is it's a place to have and raise a family, a place to go that you call home, even if you live with other family or rent, it's still "home". Having these things is a part of a normal functioning society. If everyone were homeless we would be in a bad way indeed. 

Having things is not bad. It's our attitude about things that can be bad.

16 hours ago, Marathoner said:

You raise hypotheticals, but nothing of the sort has actually occurred. Let it come to pass first, yes? I'm not the judge of my neighbor.   

Understandably they may be hypotheticals to you but I have experienced these first hand myself and had to deal with the decisions involved. I was curious how you would respond to similar situations. Sometimes these decisions aren't that simple, at least for me.

 

16 hours ago, Marathoner said:

We walk as He calls us, and Christ called me to be unfettered by goods, property, or other forms of entanglement. When it's time to go, it's time to go. The Lord equipped me for this over the course of many years spent leading a transient lifestyle. The difference between then and now?

I know when it's time to move along. In the past, it just happened that way. Like a whirlwind, all of my affairs in a given place would come to an end and I had no choice but to leave. Things are radically different now.

When my time in this city is finished, I'll give what I have accumulated away to whomever desires it before I move along. All I need are enough clothes and a few things for the journey. Here's the truth:

Everything I have was given to me. The Lord provides everything I need.

I think your example is a good example for how we can all be 'unfettered' by material things. The distinction I would draw is that men are in all sorts of different situations with regard to things and it mostly has to do with our attitude about those things.

Most of us don't have the luxury of moving about in the way you do due to so many reasons. Our families, our churches, our jobs etc.

[The_Patriot21]

8 hours ago, Starise said:

Exactly.

I agree. Any time we give money to anything we trust that individual or entity to put it to good use.At that point it's out of our hands.At Christmas time we give gifts to people who in many cases probably don't need the thing we give them which never made much sense to me because unless it's a child we are talking about, we are probably the best judges of what we really want, and why the lines are long in the return sections of stores or online returns after Christmas. If anyone were going to give me one of those gifts that people like to re gift. Save us both the trouble and give the money instead to someone who needs it. I'll buy my own stuff thank you very much  In fact this is what I do. I buy it and my wife wraps it up for Christmas lol.

All of that is what I call mostly frivolous giving.Meanwhile there are truly unemployed people in need who wonder how they will pay their next electric bill or rent. I don't think there is any question they could use the money. Most of us have very limited giving ability. Homeless hungry people are everywhere. This is where I think God's leading comes into play.We can't feed everyone. Many of us probably have a tough time just meeting our own expenses. Those that have a little extra often wonder where it can best be used for giving.

I remember reading this and wondering why this woman didn't have some apprehension. Maybe she did. She went with that unseen  spidey sense from God we can't explain. I can relate to it but I can't explain it except to say I knew when I was supposed to do it.

She absolutely had apprehension over it...she even argued with elijah a bit over it...but in the end she put aside her own understanding and stepped out on faith.

[Sower]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:43 AM, Starise said:

I was curious if anyone here has a set criteria when they give to individuals and causes. Now let me say I'm not a wealthy person, so my giving needs to be measured with wisdom. I also realize that giving can be far more than simply a financial gift, yet saying we will pray for someone if we should be helping them is kinda shallow in my opinion and I have bible to back that up.

I have often heard persons say they have felt 'led' to give to a person or an organization. I can say I have also felt this leaning at times but can't explain it except to say I think about doing it at times and I credit the Spirit with this.

I try to view this topic from the other side.
       "It is better to give than receive"   Giving is cool. Look what God gave.

My family and I have been on the receiving end on just a few occasions in our younger years, during those lean mean years, starting out. We always had enough, and God supplied all our needs. We moved out to some land in the country, bought a used trailer house, got power and water etc. Costs were more than expected. 

We were led to home school our kids (in their 1/st/3rd grades, mid eighties). It was illegal then and we were a little scared, and I was just starting out my new business and there was no money to get all the school/curriculum books and Christian teachers aid textbooks we really needed, and were a single income family now. We never understood how another couple, also home schoolers, knew our situation, but they sent us two hundred dollars to use for books. Timing in giving is key. I tried to give it back (too proud) then they said "pass it on" when able. Years later, we did, happily. This was I believe a great step in learning to trust God. And as a young family the joy of giving, now knowing about others being in need.

I think the best giving our family ever did was when there wasn't much. The poor widow woman gave two copper coins, less than a penny, and all she had. That was giving . I don't scrutinize so much anymore when led to give. God's in control.  If my motive is right, (love your neighbor) then I feel the fellowship with God.
It's all God's money anyway.

My wife is the one writing the checks for charities/church and I submit to her giving heart. I have ask her to stop supporting a few due to six figure salaries (red cross) or small percentage given to actual intended persons. We prefer to give to smaller Christian organizations that furthers the kingdom, and one on one those in need through church or friends. Giving time, and work is what I also enjoy, mostly the elderly. I honestly believe you cannot out give God. There is so much scripture about how a single seed multiplies. I say if it ain't fun, or you feel like you can't afford it, then don't. God knows our heart. It should be fun to give, for the right reasons.

 

 

[Starise]

8 hours ago, Sower said:

I honestly believe you cannot out give God. There is so much scripture about how a single seed multiplies. I say if it ain't fun, or you feel like you can't afford it, then don't. God knows our heart. It should be fun to give, for the right reasons.

The false prosperity gospel people use this one to death and for the wrong reasons. It is very true though that if God leads us to give He will provide what we need and often more than we need.

I can relate to those 'lean days' when I was a young dad on one income. It was truly harder to give back then . Small blessings and provisions would just come out of the woodwork from people and places we never expected. WE still weren't wealthy but we had plenty even though the paycheck stub didn't reflect it. 

No matter where we are it always seems easier to look at where we would like to be than where we are or have come from.

[Sower]

30 minutes ago, Starise said:

9 hours ago, Sower said:

I honestly believe you cannot out give God. There is so much scripture about how a single seed multiplies. I say if it ain't fun, or you feel like you can't afford it, then don't. God knows our heart. It should be fun to give, for the right reasons.

The false prosperity gospel people use this one to death and for the wrong reasons. It is very true though that if God leads us to give He will provide what we need and often more than we need.

It,s not all about money....(what are true blessings)

I don't think that when some fake televangelists try to pad their pockets twisting scripture it can cancel God's promises in scripture. Another ploy of the devil.
To put things in another perspective, God's giving us blessings, and our receiving his blessings, are in my opinion largely misunderstood by most. Some, maybe most, of blessings received by myself and family would be viewed by most as not blessings but loss.

John. 15,1-5 revealed to me as a branch I am attached to the true vine. The Father is the vine tender, BLESSING me by pruning me, cutting off all that part of me that is dross, cleaning me, for his higher purpose. Loss of job, home, friends, etc would be viewed by most as chastisement. God's ways are not man's, blessing us while we are unaware. He may have that better job, a new house that is really a home, new friends that will influence my walk in the spirit, etc. True riches. Beyond measure. The discussion here revolves around money. Giving money. I think money is only a small part of giving, the visible part.

Being in the construction trade, I discovered when the economy is good, new homes are sought/bought. When the economy is low, people remodel/fix up what they have. In my remodeling experience I acquired a lot of used cabinets, doors, countertops lighting, carpeting etc, some like new,  that I just couldn't throw away (great depression era parents/grandparents) so with just a little effort  I stored them in my shop. Over the years I was able to bless others, friends/ministries/churches, with much needed supplies. Friends knew and often called me to come get stuff, or needing stuff. God blessed me by being able(supplied)to bless others. No money involved, just being led to save and be a good steward of all that God gives.

I was also able to give the benefit of my craft in having the knowledge to help others, young families, widows and elderly, and churches organizing work days, to improve living/working conditions. And my wife and family gave by being behind me, even at the loss of our family time together, often working with me. This is not me doing it, but Christ working through me and our family, the opportunities to give/bless others. We remembered when we were blessed when others gave to us in our need.

We lived thirty years in that old falling apart trailer house, and then God supplied the land and funds to build (finally/amen) a new home in the wonderful country. He did it all, and to him be the glory. He supplied the blessings, we passed them on, and he keeps resupplying more blessings to be shared, hundred fold. Just can't out give him.

   I'm the richest man I know...

 

[Starise]

6 minutes ago, Sower said:

John. 15,1-5 revealed to me as a branch I am attached to the true vine. The Father is the vine tender, BLESSING me by pruning me, cutting off all that part of me that is dross, cleaning me, for his higher purpose. Loss of job, home, friends, etc would be viewed by most as chastisement. God's ways are not man's, blessing us while we are unaware. He may have that better job, a new house that is really a home, new friends that will influence my walk in the spirit, etc. True riches.

I am reminded of Psalm 51

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

10 minutes ago, Sower said:

We lived thirty years in that old falling apart trailer house, and then God supplied the land and funds to build (finally/amen) a new home in the wonderful country. He did it all, and to him be the glory. He supplied the blessings, we passed them on, and he keeps resupplying more blessings to be shared, hundred fold. Just can't out give him.

   I'm the richest man I know...

Praise God. I am reminded of this passage-

Luke 12:48

 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

Proverbs 28:20 A faithful man will abound with blessings, but whoever hastens to be rich will not go unpunished.

Deuteronomy 8:18 But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your ancestors, as it is today.