When is 'the Church' judged?

[Marilyn C]

On 12/8/2021 at 8:48 AM, AdHoc said:

The evidence is found in the "Seat" before which we are judged. In this age our Lord Jesus sat in His Father's THRONE ("thronos" - Gk.) Then, in Revelation 4  our Lord Jesus is given His Throne, "and it is set in heaven". Some time later, our Lord arrives on earth after pausing in the clouds. On His arrival on earth He sets up His Throne on earth to judge "ALL Nations" (Matt.25:31-32). But the Church is not judged at Christ's Throne. Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10 say that we are judged at the "BEMA". The "Bema" is a substitute throne for when the ruler was doing a journey away from the seat of power. The answer thus is, we are judged when our Lord Jesus is on a journey, not in heaven and not on earth. I judge the only place where this can happen is in the clouds after Rapture. 

This is somewhat strengthened by the Ten Virgins. In Matthew 25:5-6 we learn;

⁶ And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

The Bridegroom "COMES" - He is on a journey. The Virgins RISE and go forth to meet Him. There it is decided who may enter the Wedding Feast. 

 

Hi AdHoc,

I agree that the Lord is on the Father`s throne and will be set on His own throne in the third heaven by the Father. Good point there which many don`t realise.

Also agree that we are `judged` at the `Bema` seat, meaning given rewards according to what we have done under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. 

All our wrong behaviour etc will be burnt up by the `fire` of the Lord`s presence. (1 Cor. 3: 13 - 15)

And BTW the `virgins` picture was given to the people of Israel, NOT to the Body of Christ, a later revelation.

[Marilyn C]

29 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Let us talk about the Church being raptured. Four scriptures seem to promise a pre-tribulation rapture. They are, Luke 21:36, Philippians 3:10-14 where the "up-calling" (lit. Gk.) is a PRIZE, 1st Thessalonians 5:9 and Revelation 3:10. Equally, four scriptures show believers passing through the Great Tribulation. Revelation 7 where a great company connected to Jesus come out of the Great Tribulation, Revelation 12 where "those having the testimony of Jesus Christ" are chased by the Dragon for 1260 days, Revelation 13:7 where the Beast, who reigns for those last 1260 days "makes war with, and OVERCOMES the saints", and Revelation 18:4 where God's people are in Mystery Babylon and receive of her plagues.

What is your solution? 

Hi again AdHoc,

Good questions there, bro.

I think a key to the whole `rapture` question is `why` has the Lord made His Body, and thus `why` is He coming for them. It all has to do with God`s purpose for the Body of Christ. A good topic to do a thread on. I am considering that.

Now as to the Rev. 7 great multitude, they are the nations, whereas we are `called out of Israel and the nations.` 

The Rev. 12 people have the testimony of the Lamb. This title is always used in connection to Israel and its former sacrifices. We, the B/C only use the symbol, `as a lamb.`

Rev. 18: 4 is God`s people who have been in Babylon. God`s people are from Adam & Eve to the last person looking to God on the earth. However which group they are in is according to God`s purposes.

Also there are the Rev. 15: 1 - 4 people who sing the song of Moses. And that shows you what revelation they had - the Lord as ruler of the nations (v. 3).

[AdHoc]

2 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi AdHoc,

I agree that the Lord is on the Father`s throne and will be set on His own throne in the third heaven by the Father. Good point there which many don`t realise.

Also agree that we are `judged` at the `Bema` seat, meaning given rewards according to what we have done under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. 

All our wrong behaviour etc will be burnt up by the `fire` of the Lord`s presence. (1 Cor. 3: 13 - 15)

And BTW the `virgins` picture was given to the people of Israel, NOT to the Body of Christ, a later revelation.

I think the crucial words of 1st Corinthians 3:13-15 are "he will suffer a loss". No doubt the evil works will be burned, but it is what happens to the man that is shown.

I cannot join you in your thesis on the Virgins. Here is the text. 

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

1. In Matthew 21:43 the Kingdom of Heaven is taken from Israel and given to another people
2. It is a parable. These are only given to the Church to understand (Matt.13:13)
3. To enter the Kingdom one needs to be reborn. Rebirth is by faith. Israel are in unbelief
4. Christ is not Israel's Bridegroom. He is that to the Church (2nd Cor,11:2)
5. God the Father is Israel's Husband but now divorced
6. Israel do not go forth to meet the Bridegroom. They hate Him
7. Ten is not the number of Israel. It is 12
8. The Virgins Lamps were burning. The spirit of man is the Lamp of the Lord (Pr.20:27). The Virgins were reborn and had flame and oil in their Lamps
9. IN Matthew 22 Israel refused to attend the marriage feast and are chastised
10. Israel do not go forth to meet Christ, He send His angels to gather them from the four winds

 

[Marilyn C]

30 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

I think the crucial words of 1st Corinthians 3:13-15 are "he will suffer a loss". No doubt the evil works will be burned, but it is what happens to the man that is shown.

I cannot join you in your thesis on the Virgins. Here is the text. 

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

1. In Matthew 21:43 the Kingdom of Heaven is taken from Israel and given to another people
2. It is a parable. These are only given to the Church to understand (Matt.13:13)
3. To enter the Kingdom one needs to be reborn. Rebirth is by faith. Israel are in unbelief
4. Christ is not Israel's Bridegroom. He is that to the Church (2nd Cor,11:2)
5. God the Father is Israel's Husband but now divorced
6. Israel do not go forth to meet the Bridegroom. They hate Him
7. Ten is not the number of Israel. It is 12
8. The Virgins Lamps were burning. The spirit of man is the Lamp of the Lord (Pr.20:27). The Virgins were reborn and had flame and oil in their Lamps
9. IN Matthew 22 Israel refused to attend the marriage feast and are chastised
10. Israel do not go forth to meet Christ, He send His angels to gather them from the four winds

 

The Body of Christ revelation was NOT given until Paul so why is the Lord talking to the people of Israel about them?

And actually the people of Israel left after Armageddon, in Jerusalem do go out to meet the Lord. (Zech. 12: 7 - 14)

There are Jews all over the world, (I agree) that the angels go to bring back to Jerusalem. (Isa. 66: 20) 

[AdHoc]

15 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi again AdHoc,

Good questions there, bro.

I think a key to the whole `rapture` question is `why` has the Lord made His Body, and thus `why` is He coming for them. It all has to do with God`s purpose for the Body of Christ. A good topic to do a thread on. I am considering that.

Now as to the Rev. 7 great multitude, they are the nations, whereas we are `called out of Israel and the nations.` 

The Rev. 12 people have the testimony of the Lamb. This title is always used in connection to Israel and its former sacrifices. We, the B/C only use the symbol, `as a lamb.`

Rev. 18: 4 is God`s people who have been in Babylon. God`s people are from Adam & Eve to the last person looking to God on the earth. However which group they are in is according to God`s purposes.

Also there are the Rev. 15: 1 - 4 people who sing the song of Moses. And that shows you what revelation they had - the Lord as ruler of the nations (v. 3).

Hi to you to and good day. Here are my objections.

Israel is a Nation (Deut.4:6-8). This great company was taken from "ALL Nations". Israel would be included

In Revelation 12 those persecuted "had the testimony of Jesus Christ" - not "the Lamb". But Israel, in any case, have rejected Christ and the Lamb.

In Revelation 18 the commercial Babylon the Great is in view. Babylon of old was not destroyed as is predicted in verses 6-8. 

[AdHoc]

13 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

The Body of Christ revelation was NOT given until Paul so why is the Lord talking to the people of Israel about them?

And actually the people of Israel left after Armageddon, in Jerusalem do go out to meet the Lord. (Zech. 12: 7 - 14)

There are Jews all over the world, (I agree) that the angels go to bring back to Jerusalem. (Isa. 66: 20) 

Esteemed sister, it 01.15 here and I'm bushed. Off to the nest. More later today.

God bless

[Marilyn C]

42 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Hi to you to and good day. Here are my objections.

Israel is a Nation (Deut.4:6-8). This great company was taken from "ALL Nations". Israel would be included

In Revelation 12 those persecuted "had the testimony of Jesus Christ" - not "the Lamb". But Israel, in any case, have rejected Christ and the Lamb.

In Revelation 18 the commercial Babylon the Great is in view. Babylon of old was not destroyed as is predicted in verses 6-8. 

The nations in scripture refers to the Gentile nations.

Oh yes now I see that quote, Rev. 12: 17, `and keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.` We don`t `keep` the commandments, (for they are fulfilled in Jesus and as we follow Him). These Rev. 12 people are under the law and have the testimony of Jesus as the coming Messiah. They do not have the revelation of the Body of Christ for that purpose has been matured and gone to its eternal setting in glory.

I agree that Babylon of old has not been destroyed. It is already being rebuilt by the UN and the USA.

[Marilyn C]

43 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Esteemed sister, it 01.15 here and I'm bushed. Off to the nest. More later today.

God bless

See you later. Have a good sleep and wake refreshed to discuss God`s great word together.

[DeighAnn]

8 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Added to this, the scroll is judgment upon the earth. This is unleashed in the last 1260 days of this age.

You lost me here.  Judgment comes when the vials are poured out right, not when the seals and trumpets blow.  Up until then DECEPTION/the Deceiver is ruling, right?


I only know of these 2 places for  SCROLL and neither of them seem to speak to 1260 days on this earth.  

Isaiah 34:1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

Isaiah 34:2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

Isaiah 34:3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Isaiah 34:5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

Isaiah 34:7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

Isaiah 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

Isaiah 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah 34:11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.

Isaiah 34:12 They shall call the nobles thereof to the kingdom, but none shall be there, and all her princes shall be nothing.

Isaiah 34:13 And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls.

Isaiah 34:14 The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

Isaiah 34:15 There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate.

Isaiah 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Isaiah 34:17 And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: they shall possess it for ever, from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.




Here I go Judaizing???  That's a good thing right?  Showing how the OT was the shadow of things to come?  Even though this isn't a 'shadow' but more a replica.  

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I am aware of this time

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not for it is given unto the Gentiles and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

But this isn't a time of Judgment either, still a time of teaching that is taking place during the tribulation of Satan.  The two witnesses are here for prophesy, not to judge.  They are here TO CORRECT.  

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

If you could just give some clarification maybe tomorrow or the next day or the day after that, in other words no hurry.  Sometimes I feel like I am in a race (like the other day) and I don't like that 'contest' feeling.  I would rather slow down and have time to talk to God (read and pray) and ponder over these things.  If not, it will come up again and we can get to it then....  thank you    d

[The Light]

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Please respond in like manner with how you read these exact scriptures so EVERYONE CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE The answer to the question is, Yes I do.  Because they are looking to be gathered BEFORE the man of sin is revealed.  Since He comes AFTER that, and there are those teaching He comes before then YES, I BELIEVE HE IS COMING AT AN HOUR THEY THINK NOT.

 

Hmmm. The Chosen People of God will know EXACTLY when He is coming. He is coming at the Last Trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets toward the end of the 70th week of Daniel. The 70th week of Daniel will begin after a covenant is confirmed. They will know that He is coming IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS.  That day, THE DAY OF THE LORD, will not take them unaware.

As for the Church, the GOODMAN will not know when He is coming. The GOODMAN is told to watch and be ready.

 

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

HE MOST certainly is coming at an hour that EITHER those who believe in pre trib don't know or those who DO NOT BELIEVE IN PRE TRIB don't know.  Either way, that's alot of people who don't know what hour He comes.  Just like it is written.  

Who does He come as a thief in the night to?  Those who don't know the TRUTH.  Those who are believing a LIE.  Those who are being DECEIVED.  The mystery of Iniquity doeth already work.  WE ARE LIVING PROOF of that very truth HERE,  right now,  in this thread.  SO

Lets see how many TIMES we are told exactly when He will come, what it will be like and what is EXPECTED OF US. (SINCE we already know that 1 Thes 4 is about THE DEAD returning with Christ when CHRIST as King of kings and Lord of lords returns WITH THOSE who have gone to sleep/died (AND ARE CALLED ANGELS SOMETIMES AND SAINTS OTHERS, but that is another subject) and then THE ALIVE AND REMAINING are caught up, I will skip that time)  


2 Thessalonians 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure

Except for 'the really bad ones'?  ALL

because

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer

Does that mean only up until some 'physically or spiritually' uncomfortable point?  NO

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you

 SEE any need for the good to face the evil FOR GODS PURPOSES?  HOW ABOUT SOME JUSTIFICATION FOR GOING INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE?  
 

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels

WHEN DOES OUR TROUBLE END?  When Lord Jesus is REVEALED/the REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST. How will that LOOK?

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

If we KNOW GOD AND OBEY THE GOSPEL will there be any need to worry about that vengeance/wrath hitting us?  NO
So ALL it takes to not suffer GODS wrath,  is to know GOD and obey the gospel.  The words of God, the word made flesh aka Our Lord and Saviour KEEPS US FROM GODS WRATH.  
Gods wrath doesn't fall upon us IT FALLS UPON THEM.

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power

 THE WORK OF FAITH WITH POWER.  The 'tribulation' will be A WORK of faith with POWER.  If someone tells you 'the Holy Spirit' wont be around, RUN AWAY from them.  

12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

THESE ARE JUST HOW I PERSONALLY READ IT AND/OR UNDERSTAND IT
NOW WE ARE TOTALLY BEGGING YOU TO CONSIDER CHRISTS RETURN AND HIS GATHERING OF US

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

DEAR GOD PLEASE DON'T LET YOUR SOLID FOUNDATION GET SHAKEN UP, DON'T BE TROUBLED WHETHER IN YOUR SPIRIT OR BY WHAT SOMEONE SAYS, NOT BY THE FIRST LETTER WE SENT TO YOU TO THINK THAT THE DAY OF CHRISTS RETURN IS AT HAND BECAUSE IT ISN'T

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING ANYONE SAYS TO YOU BECAUSE IT WILL ONLY BE A LIE IF THEY SAY HE IS COMING BEFORE THERE IS
1.  A FALLING AWAY AND
2.  THE MAN OF SIN/SON OF PERDITION BE REVEALED.   

THOSE 2 THINGS HAVE TO TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE LORD RETURNS FOR ANY REASON

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

AND WHAT THAT MAN OF SIN WILL BE DOING BEFORE CHRIST RETURNS IS

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

COME ON PEOPLE, DON'T YOU REMEMBER HOW WE SPOKE OF EXACTLY THESE THINGS AND IN THAT ORDER?  

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

NOW YOU KNOW WHAT HAS TO TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE LORD RETURNS.  THAT IS WHY THE LORD ISN'T COMING BEFORE THAT

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

I THINK IT IS GOD WHO LETS ANY AND EVERYTHING.   POSITIVE?  NOPE.  ALSO DON'T THINK IT MATTERS.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

THE WICKED HAS TO BE REVEALED FIRST FOR THE LORD TO CONSUME AND DESTROY HIM BY HIS COMING.  THAT IS THE ONLY ORDER THAT WORKS.  IF CHRIST COMES BEFORE THAT, HOW DOES HIS BRIGHTNESS NOT DESTROY THE EVIL IT WILL DESTROY WHEN HE COMES THE NEXT TIME?  DOES IT GET SHUT OFF?  WHERE IS THAT WRITTEN.  

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the Brightness of His coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

ACCORDING TO WHAT IS WRITTEN SOME OF US ARE GOING DOWN BECAUSE WE ARE ON OPPOSITE SIDES. DECEPTION IS HERE AND DECEPTION IS COMING TO OVERCOME AND TAKE AT WILL WHO EVER IT CAN

It doesn't seem you are grasping what Paul is saying. Why did He write these things? The Romans had control of the country and they were persecuting the Church. There was a fear that the DAY OF THE LORD had begun. There was a fear that they were in the WRATH OF GOD. Paul was calming them and saying that the gathering FROM HEAVEN AND EARTH had not happened and that they were not in the Day of the Lord. Then he named a few things that had to happen before the Day of the Lord could begin. There has to be a falling away and the man of sin has to be revealed BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD CAN BEGIN. That has absolutely nothing, whatsoever to do with whether Christ can return for His bride. When He comes for His bride, the virgins will not know when the bridegroom is coming. And in case you are unaware there are two brides. 

Jacob married Leah first. He then worked 7 more years for Rachel His chosen bride. The Lord will return for His mostly Gentile bride, when no one knows when He is coming. Then toward the end of the 70th week of Daniel, He will come again, for His Chosen People. Two into one fold.

John 10

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Learn the parable of the fig tree. There are two harvests.

 

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

SOME OF US ARE RIGHT NOW BELIEVEING A LIE AND THAT LIE HAS TO DO WITH WHEN CHRIST IS RETURNING AND NOTHING ELSE.  THAT LIE HAS TO DO WITH THE TIMING OF CHRISTS RETURN.  THAT IS WHERE THE DELUSION IS COMING INTO PLAY.  SO I AM GOING TO STAND ON THE SIDE THAT SAYS CHRIST RETURNS TO GATHER US AFTER THE WORKINGS OF SATAN WHOS WORKS WILL BE BY LIES AND DECEPTION WITH SIGNS AND WONDERS

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

THE WORK OF FAITH WITH POWER.  EITHER WE HAVE FAITH THAT GOD CAN PART THE SEA AND WE CAN GO THROUGH ON DRY GROUND OR WE DON'T.  EITHER WE BELIEVE THAT WE CAN BE THROWN INTO THE FIERY FURNACE AND NOT BE SINGED BECAUSE WE HAVE FAITH IN THE POWERS OF GOD OR WE DON'T.  WE EITHER HAVE FAITH THAT WHAT IS WRITTEN IS COMING TO PASS OR WE DON'T.  WE EITHER HAVE FAITH THAT THE GOSPEL ARMOR KEEPS US FROM BEING TEMPTED TO BELIEVE LIES OR WE DON'T.  

IF WE ARE OF THE GROUP THAT HAS IT WRONG WE MIGHT BE DAMNED.  WHAT ISN'T RIGHT IS BELIEVING THAT GOD WOULD NOT TREAT ALL HIS CHILDREN JUSTLY.  OR THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE EVERYTHING UNDER HIS POWER.  OR HE WOULD DO SOMETHING NEW UNDER THE SUN.  

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I AM GOING TO HOLD FAST TO MY FAITH THAT GOD CAN DO ALL THINGS AND I AM NOT TO FEAR.  I AM GOING TO KEEP THE FAITH THAT I WAS GIVEN POWER OVER ALL MY ENEMIES AND THAT IN THE END TIMES ESPECIALLY WHEN GOD SENDS THE TWO WITNESSES AND THEY ARE PERFORMING SIGNS AND WONDERS THAT GOD WILL BE WORKING THROUGH US JUST THE SAME AS HE DID THROUGH THEM.  SO THOSE ARE THE TRADITIONS I WILL BE STANDING FAST IN, NOT FLYING AWAY TO 'ESCAPE' GODS WRATH.  

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

not through 'rapture' cause EVERY GOOD WORD AND WORK IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED and Can't SERVE if we have the day off.  

17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.




 

If you think your salvation or anyone else's is dependent on whether you understand whether or not there is a pretribulation rapture, you are sadly mistaken. Understanding end times is extremely hard. It is intentionally made that way because He does not want you to know when He is coming. The GOODMAN will not know when He is coming. He is instructed to watch. You think that He is delaying His coming until there is a falling away and the man of sin is revealed. That is not what the Word says.