Separation of Body and Soul is Unbiblical.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Everything God created in the first six days was good. Disobedience comes after that sixth (or possibly seventh) day. Yes, the Adversary disobeyed God but according to Paul it was NOT by the morning light's disobedience that sin entered the world; it was by one man's disobedience. Adam, not Lucifer, brought sin into this world. The serpent's existence in Eden - according to Paul -was not what brought sin into the world. God made the world and everything He created in the heavens and the earth those first six days good, good and sinless. 

Luc's disobedience occurred between Genesis 1:31 and Genesis 3:1. Adam's disobedience occurred at Genesis 3:6 and it was at that verse that sin entered the world. 

And neither Lucifer nor Adam or Eve physically dies the day they sinned. 

They were, however, dead in transgression. Not physically dead, but sinfully dead. 

I am trying to digest what is in this post. I do not want to quickly agree or disagree. 

Diamonds are not found on a tree. I have to dig for them. 

Adam at the time of his disobedience passed from Life unto Death, the same thing happened with Lucifer.

Adam Identified with Lucifer they were both in death. 

[Biblican]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Yes, God did know A&E would sin. However, God did not cause them to sin. 

I never said his knowing A&E would sin did make him dependent upon sin. So let me clarify so you don't end up arguing against something I never said. It's not God's knowledge of A&E's disobedience that would make Him dependent; it is having to have sin for creation and His plan in Christ to work that makes Him dependent upon sin. It is sin having to exist for Christ to have purpose that's a dependency. It is pinning everything on the occurrence of sin. 

 

If no sin ever existed would Christ need to be the perfect blemish-free sacrifice? 

God did not cause Adam and Eve to sin, they managed that very well on their own.

No, Jesus would not have had to die if they had not sinned, but God knew they would sin and that is why He ordained Jesus to die from the beginning.

[Biblican]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Every example just given has a body. They can be seen. They have fingers and tongues. It is the body the apostles thought they saw. It was bodies that were photographed. Light waves. Mass. Bodies.  

They are impressions of bodies. The soul fills the physical body and has an impression of the flesh in some cases and can be recognized. When Samuel appeared to Saul, His body was in the grave his soul was in paradise and was permitted to manifest to him. 

What you are teaching is basically pagan Egyptian religious  belief. They mummified the bodies because they believed that if the body was destroyed the soul would be lost. In other words they did not believe that the soul was a separate entity. The Bible teaches that it is. We are not Egyptians and that is where Plato got this doctrine and passed it along to Augustine and Calvin. Not good because it contradicts scripture, and is pagan in origin.

[Your closest friendnt]

44 minutes ago, Biblican said:

They are impressions of bodies. The soul fills the physical body and has an impression of the flesh in some cases and can be recognized. When Samuel appeared to Saul, His body was in the grave his soul was in paradise and was permitted to manifest to him. 

What you are teaching is basically pagan Egyptian religious  belief. They mummified the bodies because they believed that if the body was destroyed the soul would be lost. In other words they did not believe that the soul was a separate entity. The Bible teaches that it is. We are not Egyptians and that is where Plato got this doctrine and passed it along to Augustine and Calvin. Not good because it contradicts scripture, and is pagan in origin.

 Your statements about what  the Egyptians believe are erroneous because the Egyptians believe in Life after death. 

And that the soul leaves the body at the time of death 

The reasons why they mummified the dead are besides the point  

The Greeks and the Romans and the surrounding regions they believe in an active Life after death A CONSIOUS LIFE WITH KNOWING EVERYTHING ABOUT THEMSELVES THE WAY WHEN THEY LIVED. And they can RECOGNIZE and be RECOGNIZED. 

Which exactly what the disciples taught when they taught about the day of Judgment and the day the works and the thoughts of everyone alive and or dead will be judged by the Christ of God 

the Greeks and the Romans burned their dead in spectacular ceremonies. 

No mummifying for the Greeks. 

They also believe the truth about the underworld. About the God of the dead HADES the keeper of the souls of the dead and the fact that no one can escape from him.

Many Greek heroes went to make war with him and subdued him and closed to succeeding. 

That's why Paul said about the Greeks that some they wanted to know detailed description of the battle of Jesus Christ, the epic battle of their forces.

That Jesus Christ won the battle with the Death  and Hades by his full obedience to the Heavenly Father at the time of his death on the Cross it sound unbelievable. 

Please do not repeat your comments about Plato and the rest without providing proof which you can never find.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

14 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

In the Gospel of John, Christ said, God is a SPIRIT and we must worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

John 4: 19-22

19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 

 

14 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

In the first Chapter of the Gospel of John, it explains that Christ is the WORD [that became] flesh...so before this, the WORD is Spirit.

 

John 1:14 KJV 

 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

***In reading the scriptures it is established from the prophetic that a child will be born from a maiden (that makes the distinction between Elizabeth who gave birth to John the Baptist and Mary who gave birth to Jesus Christ six months after Elizabeth who gave birth to John.

Jesus birth was announce by the Angels to the Shepherds and to the Wise men from the far east perhaps from Babylon. Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ according to the Archangel Gabriel who stands in the present of God.

A man was born after the gestation period of nine months for humans and he was born attached to his mother placenta. 

John 1:18 KJV

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 

 

14 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

This means the flesh body of Christ is temporary.   As God, the WORD is able to show Himself, the scars He endured, the Stripes, the nail prints, the sword wound, etc., but the WORD is still God, which is SPIRIT!

 

14 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

 

So knowing that much makes it an easy deduction, outside of Paul's explanation, that our own bodies are temporary and only compliant to this Earth.

 

[Willa]

 Rev 20:4. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Here John could see the souls.  Someday we will know what that means.  I believe that the soul is the true self--personality, will, emotions. values etc.  In heaven it will be cleansed of all sin and imperfection.  However, since these souls had been beheaded we can assume that they are not connected to the earthly bodies.  

I don't really give a rip what any commentator says.  Their ideas are pie in the sky if they are not founded on Scripture.  I have noticed that those who think there is no immortal soul or salvation of the soul usually base their assumptions on the Old Testament.  We have a more complete revelation of future things in the New Testament.  I prefer to find my doctrine in the New Testament.

 Heb 10:39. But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

1Pe 1:9  obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

[enoob57]

On 12/13/2021 at 2:49 PM, Charlie744 said:

In Genesis, God took earth and breathed into it and it BECAME a living soul. Meaning A + B = C. (two parts). The confusion, for me, is just what does B include?

no A+Everything+C= image

[Charlie744]

27 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

no A+Everything+C= image

Thanks. Is that what Gen. 2:7 tells us? 

Charlie

[Dennis1209]

14 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

So, the combination of a body and the breath of life = a living soul.

But God did not breath into any animal but of course, He gave them life.

God did breath into Adam and not only did Adam BECOME a living soul, but he was (while in Eden) sinless, immortal and 'in the image of God'.

When Adam sinned, he lost his immortality and sinless nature and became no different than the animals in that they both were body and had the breath of life in them. This 'breath of life' might be called our 'spirit' (small 's'). But the Holy Spirit God breathed into Adam which was lost or taken back before he left Eden was the big 'S' (again, this is not to be confused  with THE HOLY SPIRIT.

So was the purpose of God breathing into Adam just the 'breath of life - spirit, or was it the Holy Spirit that made him 'in the image of God'?

Either way, no matter how hard I try to look at it from almost everyone in this forum, I can not seem to find anything in Genesis that tells me there is an independent entity or soul that exists or continues after death since without both the body and the breath of life - there is no more... no more 'living soul'. Dennis, what do you think? Thanks.

 

First, let me reiterate, I cannot say my view is correct, but it's my thinking process and understanding, so far. I'm always open to understanding differently, based on scripture and study. You hit on a key point, "in our image."

Genesis 1:26 (KJV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

What does it mean to be created in the image and likeness of God? It cannot mean a physical likeness for obvious reasons; God is a Spirit. It cannot be a set of attributes, because we share many of those attributes with the animal kingdom, it has to be something unique, and not shared with the animal kingdom. Therefore, by deduction, it has to be our makeup; that differentiates us from the rest of living creation. Animal souls and spirits are not said to go to Haides, but return to the ground.

I think an "imager of God" is more like a role, assignment, job description, kingship (have dominion), and caretaker over the Earth. It appears humanity was the crown jewel of God's creation. I suspect one of the reasons Satan and his minions hate humanity so much; is we were created in His image, and they were not. 

I believe the answer lies in; "God breathed." Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This is not said of the angels, the animal kingdom, or anything else. I suspect the meaning could be interpreted; all the angels both loyal and rebellious, and all of humanity (the saved and lost), are created with eternal life. 

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

This death is bodily physical death. There is a second death coming for unbelievers, and it is not annihilation of the soul. At the Great White Throne judgment, unbelievers will be bodily resurrected, the books will be opened and they will be judged, then cast into the Lake of Fire; along with death and Hell (presently the temporary torment side of Haides). 

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

John 5:29 (KJV) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Just as with the New Testament example of the rich man being cast into Haides (where the lost souls currently reside) alive. Satan and his angels, the Antichrist and False Prophet, and the condemned, will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire, prepared for the Devil and his angels. Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

If I understand Ecc. 12:7 correctly, after physical death. a lost person is no longer a tripart being consisting of body, soul and spirit. He or she now consists only of a soul, until their bodily resurrection. I believe one purpose and function of our spirit, is the connection to communicate with our Creator, and He with us. 

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

As I implied previously; the soul is who we really are, our essence and being. 

Psalm 6:4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.

Throughout the Bible, people are concerned about their eternal "souls." King David certainly was:

Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

@Josheb, I am not testing you but I would like to ask you a question, not really a question but a question is a question.

When they said that they thought that they saw a Spirit. 

Not only what they see, because they knew what they saw and there were a few of them, and they were not mistaken. 

But what they thought and their thoughts would have come from what they believed. 

They saw someone they recognize and was wearing clothes contemporary to their culture.  And the hair and the mannerism and they thought that they were seen a Spirit. 

What was their definition of Spirit? If someone asked them what is their definition of Spirit , would they include the physical body?