Revelation 12:6 The Woman In The Wilderness Explained?

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

You have proved nothing, it's your opinion in speculation and assumption, claiming something unseen 

Of course it is seen: I SAW it in Strong's and copied it here. You reject it simply because it destroys your theory. I reject a "falling away" because it does not fit the context of the passage.

Question: if the departing is NOT the rapture, which satisfies Paul's theme, then where do you put the rapture in this passage? It must be there because that is what the passage is all about. 

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

No offense brother, but you don't even understand that there will be a 1000 year kingdom on earth BEFORE the new heaven and new earth. How could you possibly understand what escaping ALL THESE THINGS means even though the things are listed in the previous verses.

You don't understand that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal where the signs are given. There will be a pretribulation rapture whether you understand it or not.

 

 

This is, of course, a myth, trying to associate an event AFTER the tribulation with something BEFORE the tribulation. I hope such a belief works out for you.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Escape All These Things isn't a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven as you claim, not even a suggestive hint towards the claim, it's pure speculation and assumptions 

Apostasia is defection, falling away, from truth

I wonder, have you ever translated the entire bible from Greek and Hebrew? I will certainly pay more attention to those who have.

1384 Wycliffe N.T.
That no man deceyue you in any maner / for no but departynge aweye (or dissencon) schal come firste & the man of synne schall be schewid [shewed] the sone of perdicioune.

1534 Tyndale N.T.
Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion

1535 Coverdale Bible
Let no man disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the departynge come first, and that Man of Synne be opened, even the sonne of perdicion.

1539 Cranmer Great Bible
Let no man deceaue you by any meanes, for the Lorde shall not come excepte there come a departinge fyrst, & that that synfull man be opened, the sonne of perdicion.

1549 Matthew's Bible
Let no man deceyue you by any meanes, for the Lord commeth not, except there come a departyng first, and that, that sinful man be opened, the sonne of perdicyon

1565 Beza Bible
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for [that day shall not come,] except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, [euen] the son of perdition.

1575 Geneva Bible
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes for that day shal not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition.

[tatwo]

iamlamad> Speechless? That shows how far what you believe is from what Jesus believes!

Of course…exactly what I was thinking. There is a certain sense of accomplishment that comes from having the character of my spirit life assassinated by a spiritual savant such as yourself imalamad…your typical encouragement is so edifying.

iamlamad> One more point, many people, when reading about revelation being about "the hereafter" assume John included the word ONLY - ONLY the hereafter. John did not. The KJV shows "only" twice, but not for this purpose.

Rev 1:1b – “…God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place;” iamlamad, a basic understanding of what is written tells us, when it says “things which must soon take place;” is simply understood that they have not and are yet to take place…immediately and/or soon.

Your obsession with the word “only” here, has absolutely nothing to do Rev. 1:1 and is a nothing burger.

she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

iamlamad> This verse, in context, must also be about Virgo. What does Virgo represent? A virgin. Now we have a virgin travailing in birth. Did a virgin conceive and give birth? We know Mary did.

The seed in the “woman” of Rev. 12 is going to be the perfected fulfillment of its type…it was implanted by Christ into a “woman” that at first was innocent. She has consistently lost her virtue throughout the ages, and will continue to do so until she is finally revealed as the mother of harlots. This is a picture (type) of Israel. When God implanted His seed into her…she too eventually lost her virtue…and murdered her own Son. The good news is…it was never about her, it was always about what she was carrying. If you can’t see that…at this point…it is not surprising to me.

Tatwo

[tatwo]

the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

iamlamad> Does this make good sense taken literally? Of course it does. We know the devil wanted to kill the Only Begotten Son. We also know King Herod wanted to Kill the King of Kings as a child. It is not rocket science to put these together and see what is going on here. Satan USED King Herod to try and Kill Jesus as a small child.

I take it as literal…I know the history…just like you “iamlamad” and John did also. This too is “slated” for a perfected future fulfillment in the end of the age.  There is a huge piece of your “spiritual” discernment that is missing iamlamad.

This leaves you completely unprepared for your time of distress, which is now upon you…let me remind you that “if” you recognize it…the moment you realize you’re in the “wilderness” as the “woman”… remember that the Lord is merciful…and humble yourself that He may grant you His mercy…the thing however…about apostasy is…that those in that state…are such…because they are deceived, just like Israel, just like the “woman.”

she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron

iamlamad> Does this fit Jesus Christ, the King of Kings? It is written elsewhere that He will rule with a rod of iron. you know it does. 

Yes, it is as you say…there is also the truth that Christ is known as the “Head”…this “Head” has a “Body”…what are the chances “Christ the Body” will follow “Christ the Head”… exactly? (Eph 4:13)There is the revelation of a mystery…hidden in God from ages past in this for you…iamlamad…didya catch it?

Tatwo

[tatwo]

her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

iamlamad> Does this make sense taken literally? Of course it does. This means Satan failed, and Jesus got to accomplish what He came for.

I take it literally as well. The “Man-Child” of Rev. 12 is “Christ the Body” as perfectly prepared by “Christ the Head”…in like manner as “Christ Yahshua” was perfectly prepared by “His Father” “This is My Son in whom I am well pleased” He the “Son” …“Christ the Body” will accomplish what He came for…what can stop Him? I am convinced you will still be looking for a “secret rapture.”  

The idea of “caught up to God and His throne” must be understood. Where is “God?”…Dwelling in His temple of course…upon the throne of His peoples “lives”…in heaven and on earth, it’s called the kingdom of God. “His throne” is symbolic of a Kings (Christ) Power & Authority.

Putting it together…you should be able to see that the “Man-Child” or the “Son” or “Christ the Body” that comes forth from the “woman”…who is “any religion that calls itself Christ but is not”…10 virgins style that is. This “Son” is fully robed in the power and authority of Christ Himself…clothed in the Glory of the Father exactly as Christ Yahshua is…and for the same purpose I might add.

It was necessary for Christ to dwell on the earth bodily, physically, in order to “reconcile man to God” because man is on earth…physically. Additionally Christ came to “destroy the works of the Devil”…again He did that on the earth as a result of His visitation.

That is an exact blueprint for how Christ Yahshua “Head” is raising His “Body” on the earth today. The kingdom of God is both a heavenly and earthly reality…those on the earth who “dwell in the heavenlies” will go about their “Lords will” on the earth in the end of the age…just exactly as He did…prior to Him “birthing it forth (kingdom of God ) on Pentecost.” His Body will experience the same destiny as He…the “pattern Son” did. It was never going to be anything else. Greater love has no one than this that one lay down his life for his friends.

That just completely eviscerated any semblance of your “Secret Rapture.” There was never an intention for that…Christ Head & Body will continue His assault against darkness on earth in exact likeness as “Christ the Head” has. There is going to be plenty of opportunities to overcome our accuser because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of our testimony, including, not loving our life even when faced with death.

It’s been happening since Pentecost…creation…the “heavens & the earth…all of it” has entered the concluding phase of its purpose now…its nearly time for “Christ” to reveal the image and likeness of the Creator as the character and nature of our “Father” via the “many membered…every tribe, tongue, people and nation” Body of Christ…as ”Christ…Head & Body”...and it will happen right here on earth…as prophesied.

Dare I say that the perfected “Son” of God, Head & Body is seated upon the Throne of Christ as “The Royal Priest?” They operate from the authority of God’s throne with the anointing of the Holy Spirit, so they are kings and priests. “The High Priest” is in the temple of God…recognize Him iamlamad? You Sir, represent a visual picture…of a beggarly people whose house is on fire, and things are dire and desperate.

Tatwo

[tatwo]

And the woman fled into the wilderness

iamlamad> This tells us the parenthesis is over and John is back to real-time. It is only seconds after the abomination. The first five verses were a "history lesson" for John, because that happened before John was born. They are written as a parenthesis.

The word “wilderness” in Rev. 12:6 comes from the same Greek word as the word “desolate” in Mat. 23:38. It has a physical meaning and a spiritual meaning…its spiritual meaning is a place where “God is rejected”…the King of kings said ”See! Your house is left to you desolate.”

This place “wilderness” was prepared by God because He knew the end before the beginning…notice it says “that they should feed her” who? Those already in desolation of course…(world/kosmos/beast) additionally it was the “earth” that helped her…it says nothing of God helping her.

She that was once clothed in the “Sun, moon and a crown of 12 stars” now all that she has left in God…because of her descent from righteous virtue…is the two wings of a great eagle…the symbol of the prophetic…she is still clamoring about being Christ, there is likely some of His still in her ? See the four living creatures for a reference, who I might add are in the “midst” of the throne of Christ.

It won’t take her long to lose any resemblance to Christ (wings of a great eagle) she once had…after all she is being fed a diet of “desolation” by those who have “rejected God,” while being “helped” by those of the “earth” who are the sons of Satan, marked with his image…and carrying out his dark, deceitful deeds. She sleeps with the kings of the earth to get the unrighteous power she wants…she becomes drunk with the blood of the saints…remember? Just like Israel.

She is the final fulfillment of the “woman” who “carries” the seed of promise (Israel is a type of her)…and that seed will be revealed as the “the full stature of Christ” Head & Body “a many membered…every tribe, tongue, people and nation” corporate Christ…to fulfill Gods prophetic decree from Gen. 1:26…"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;” When this is complete the created heavens will be empty and the earth destroyed.

iamlamad…your type is nauseating, at least Nicodemus…one of your types…had the ability to ask a good question…"Does our law judge a man before it hears him and knows what he is doing?"  This in the light of your own incessant buffeting that comes from your own insecurity.  You even fight with fellow “secret rapture” brothers, yours is a spirit of contention. Hopefully you’re not any kind of church leader…otherwise you would be guilty of making those you lead twice the sons of hell you yourself are.

Any further discussion with you iamlamad is pointless…carry on in your vigil of deceit in “watching for a secret rapture…” It’s a secret shhh…:)

 

Tatwo

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Of course it is seen: I SAW it in Strong's and copied it here. You reject it simply because it destroys your theory. I reject a "falling away" because it does not fit the context of the passage.

Question: if the departing is NOT the rapture, which satisfies Paul's theme, then where do you put the rapture in this passage? It must be there because that is what the passage is all about. 

Departure, Defection, Falling Away, is from a faith once held, the truth

Your claim Apostasia represents a rapture of the church to heaven inst found in scripture, and in my opinion is a fable

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I wonder, have you ever translated the entire bible from Greek and Hebrew? I will certainly pay more attention to those who have.

1384 Wycliffe N.T.
That no man deceyue you in any maner / for no but departynge aweye (or dissencon) schal come firste & the man of synne schall be schewid [shewed] the sone of perdicioune.

1534 Tyndale N.T.
Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion

1535 Coverdale Bible
Let no man disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the departynge come first, and that Man of Synne be opened, even the sonne of perdicion.

1539 Cranmer Great Bible
Let no man deceaue you by any meanes, for the Lorde shall not come excepte there come a departinge fyrst, & that that synfull man be opened, the sonne of perdicion.

1549 Matthew's Bible
Let no man deceyue you by any meanes, for the Lord commeth not, except there come a departyng first, and that, that sinful man be opened, the sonne of perdicyon

1565 Beza Bible
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for [that day shall not come,] except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, [euen] the son of perdition.

1575 Geneva Bible
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes for that day shal not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition.

Departing/Departure is from the faith once held, same greek word used "Apostasia"

You aren't going to change my position, Apostasia isnt a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven,

Dallas Theological Grad "Thomas Ice" is the pusher of this teaching, that's found no place in scripture, 

One good thing is, it gives exposure to others on this newly formulated teaching

The Church will be present on earth to see the Man Of Sin be revealed, I wont be deceived

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Departing/Departure is from the faith once held, same greek word used "Apostasia"

You aren't going to change my position, Apostasia isnt a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven,

Dallas Theological Grad "Thomas Ice" is the pusher of this teaching, that's found no place in scripture, 

One good thing is, it gives exposure to others on this newly formulated teaching

The Church will be present on earth to see the Man Of Sin be revealed, I wont be deceived

If you want the truth - my guess is you don't - there is no information in "apostasia" as to WHAT or WHO is being departed from. That is why even the KJV only put 'falling away" but did not say FROM WHAT.

You still haven't answered the questions:

HOW does the man of sin get revealed in 3b?

WHY did Paul write, "and now you know..."

WHAT has to happen to the restrainer before the man of sin can be revealed?

Where do you find the rapture in this entire passage? It must be there, for it is Paul's theme?

What a difference: if I am wrong, I want to know it, so my response is, prove it to me with the Word and i'll change.

Edited January 12, 2022 by iamlamad