can apostasy and giving up on the faith but later on wanting to return be forgiven ?

[JesusistheKing]

I guess that my first question is can you give up the holy spirit once you have been indwelt

 

and my second question is if you do, but then later on realize that you made a mistake and you want to repent of committing apostasy and giving up the holy spirit and be back in relationship with Jesus, will he let you ?

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by JesusistheKing

[George]

Shalom @JesusistheKing

I believe we should sincerely ask the question this way, "Is there a way home for those who repent?" 

Honestly, you are opening a can of worms which can often get more complicated than it should be.  What tends to happen is it becomes a OSAS debate which over 20 years of running a forum will be debated till the Lord returns.

I'll leave you a story that I read in Eusebius a Church historian that really helped me early in my walk with the Lord that I wrote in a devotion.

Quote

 

There is a fascinating true story about the Apostle John narrated by the early church "Father", Eusebius, well worth reading.

The account goes that the elderly John took an affection and interest in a young man from Ephesus and subsequently entrusted him to the care of a bishop in the vicinity, and that, after a season, this young man became entangled with a band of criminals, and was corrupted by them, finally becoming their leader. When John returned after some time to search for the young man, expecting to find him spiritually well and maturing, the bishop despondently informed John of his fate.

Eusebius wrote, "The apostle tore his clothing, beat his head, and groaned, 'A fine guardian I left for our brother's soul! But get me a horse and someone show me the way.' He rode off from the church, just as he was. When he arrived at the hideout and was seized by the outlaws' sentries, he shouted, 'This is what I have come for, take me to your leader!'"

"When John approached and the young leader recognized him, he turned and fled in shame. But John ran after him as hard as he could, forgetting his age, and calling out, 'Why are you running away from me, child – from your own father, unarmed and old? Pity me, child, don't fear me! I will give account to Christ for you, and if necessary, gladly suffer death and give my life for yours as the Lord suffered death for us. Stop! Believe! Christ sent me.'"

"The young man stopped, stared at the ground, threw down his weapons and wept bitterly. Flinging his arms around the old man, he begged forgiveness, baptized a second time with his own tears…[John] led him back and did not leave him until – through prayer, fasting, and instruction – he restored him to the church."

What an awesome story! I've used this story many times when talking to the despondent backslider who believes he can no longer be forgiven.

Be an example of His love! No matter how far someone believes he has strayed from or even deserted the Lord – he can always be restored! Perhaps, while reading this message, the Lord is reminding you of a person with whom you can share this story. Just possibly, you are the one that God wants to use to bring about his/her restoration. If so, I trust that reading of the Apostle John's loving example, you've been inspired by the compassion and grace the Lord Himself feels toward His "prodigals" and moved by His Spirit to go out in faith...and rescue the lost sheep!

 

Be blessed -- simply return and try not to overthink it ... just believe it!

George

[missmuffet]

18 minutes ago, George said:

Shalom @JesusistheKing

I believe we should sincerely ask the question this way, "Is there a way home for those who repent?" 

Honestly, you are opening a can of worms which can often get more complicated than it should be.  What tends to happen is it becomes a OSAS debate which over 20 years of running a forum will be debated till the Lord returns.

I'll leave you a story that I read in Eusebius a Church historian that really helped me early in my walk with the Lord that I wrote in a devotion.

Be blessed -- simply return and try not to overthink it ... just believe it!

George

Yes

[Alive]

I offer the following to you, dear one....

The Mercy Seat

I believe that from God's point of view, there is no broken fellowship--because we are 'In Christ' and when He sees us (typically and in reality), He sees the perfect Lamb of God and the completed work of atonement.

When we who are 'born again' sin, because of our weakness in the flesh and lack of faith, our conscience condemns us and we have a 'sense' of improper fellowship --so we confess our sin and we find that Grace and solace that heals our soul. This is also His Grace and Mercy to His children as we grow up.

The reality, from God's perspective is that we were already forgiven and never fell from that place on the Mercy Seat between the two cherubim. This is where He meets us.

 

Ex. 25:17   “You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two and a half cubits shall be its length and a cubit and a half its width. 18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. 20 And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat. 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. 22 And there I will meet with you,

This is where the Lord meets us. Where the 'blood' was sprinkled and atonement is made. Its interesting what Mary Magdalene saw when she looked into the tomb where Christ lay.

John 20:11   But Mary stood outside by the tomb weeping, and as she wept she stooped down and looked into the tomb. 12 And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

To me this hearkens back to the Mercy Seat and the two cherubim.

He became the atonement and propitiation for our sins and a once for all high priest to boot. A once for all propitiation and there is now no longer a need for a priest to continually sprinkle the blood between the angels.

Rom. 3:21   But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom. 8:1 (NAS20S)   Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. ² For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Rom. 8:28 (NAS20S)   And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. ²⁹ For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; ³⁰ and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

[AdHoc]

On 12/27/2021 at 7:32 PM, JesusistheKing said:

I guess that my first question is can you give up the holy spirit once you have been indwelt

 

and my second question is if you do, but then later on realize that you made a mistake and you want to repent of committing apostasy and giving up the holy spirit and be back in relationship with Jesus, will he let you ?

 

The full salvation of a man is fivefold;

1. He needs a judicial substitute to take away his sin ans sins. He can't do this by himself
2. He needs a second and new and heavenly rebirth to infuse the life of God into his spirit (Jn.3:3-6, 14-16)
3. He needs his souls (mind, emotions and will) to be transformed to be like Christ (Rom.8:29, 1st Pet.1:4-9, 2nd Pet.1:4-9 etc)
4. He needs resurrection for his corrupted body. He cannot do this himself
5. He needs to be trained and qualified in spiritual behavior to be a co-king with Christ when He sets it up on earth (Gal.5:21 etc.)

Points 1, 2 and 4 must be done by God and are free gift had by faith

In point 1, Christ's atoning work, once approved by the Father, cannot be overturned

In point 2 the birth by the Holy Spirit cannot be undone. The life we receive is "eternal" and cannot be ended

In point number 3, because a man has a free will, God needs our cooperation. We must deny the soul, crucify the flesh, eat Christ's Word as a steady diet, drink the Water of Life, and have trials. If a Christian won't cooperate with God, he is DISOWNED for his inheritance - not his salvation in point #1. His INHERITANCE is to be made co-king with Jesus when He returns - point # 5.

Point 4 is guaranteed by the power of Jesus (1st Cor.15:23, 45)

Point #5 is the REWARD that God has set before Christians to motivate them to cooperate with Him in their transformation. Example; Luke 19:17-19. If a Christian will not live as described in point #3, he will be cast from the presence from Christ, cast into outer darkness and even be chastised for the duration of the Millennial Kingdom. During this thousand years he will be trained by the "rod of iron" - not grace like this age. Because you are a son of God, you cannot lose your sonship. But you can lose your inheritance.

Prince Charles of Great Britain is BORN a royal. He is appointed to be king by BIRTH. But to be made king - that is, to INHERIT his throne, he must subject himself to the training ordered by the Queen - his mother. For the high office of king of Great Britain, his training is long and rigorous. If he rebels against it he cannot be "un-birthed" from the Queen, but he can be declared a criminal and put in jail instead of ascending the throne. So it is with a Christian. A "Bastard" is not a son without a father. Every man has a father. But a bastard is one who has no legal inheritance (Heb.12:8).

If you have drifted away from the Lord in recent years, fall on your face and ask for mercy. You could be just in time to resume your training, have a loving relationship with Jesus and be made a king when Jesus returns. Otherwise ... a stern age awaits you full of "weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth with stripes".

[Heleadethme]

I wonder sometimes whether we are looking for black and white answers where there isn't one given to us.  Ultimately God is the only wise judge to judge any individual soul...He is the only one who knows and justly weighs all the circumstances of each heart and life...and He is the one who is going to judge us all.  Knowing that helps us to do our best for Him.   If someone has turned away from Christ, and sincerely want to come back to him, I believe they will try to show the Lord how seriously sorry they are and bring forth fruits meet for repentance.  Begin to walk after Him and earnestly seek Him.  One can never be wrong to do that, and the bible says a humble and contrite heart He will not turn away.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Heleadethme

[Heleadethme]

I've heard many testimonies of young people coming to faith in Christ and then quickly being drawn back into the world and sin, but afterwards returning to the Lord.  I think the young in the faith may be especially vulnerable, still being untaught in the word and not established in the faith, and not having received the Holy Spirit yet.  Baptism might be a factor as well......it's important to be baptized as soon as possible after receiving the Lord....it is a prophetic act depicting one's 'death and resurrection' which "seals" our salvation...a spiritual weapon for our walk in this life.  If someone is not baptized they may be more prone to falling away or falling into sin....it seems to be something I've observed with some.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Heleadethme