Genesis Msg 1, God, Creation, Pre History and Origins

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Saved

When we understand the flooding that originally rendered the earth null and void, Noahs flood is set free to be about what it was about, the bloodline and it is no longer forced to explain things it didn't have anything to do with like the craters, evidence of the continents being one land mass, the ice age the destruction of dinosaurs, the lack of 'human' skeletons etc.  (I think La Brea tar pits had a bigger effect on me than I thought and I paid better attention in school than my grades showed)

There is so much about this earth that screams out 'I am millions of years old' with a history RICH in physical events, events that couldn't fit into a couple thousand years.  It all goes back to God saying I am not the author of confusion.  Why would works that are brand new need to be 'pondered' on to help us understand God and his infinite ness?  Common Sense, where has it gone?  Sometimes the worse enemies of Gods words are those who claim to know them best.  

Faith doesn't come about by being told you have to believe the ridiculous, but that is just my opinion.  

d

About once a year, my great aunt from the eastern US came out to visit the family.  I remember her quite fondly.  One of the last books she bought me was a book on the La Bear tar pits in the urban part of Los Angeles.  I still have the book she bought me some many years ago but I regret not visiting the tar pits when I was living and working in and around Los Angeles.  I was just getting in deep with photography and it would have great to have as a remembrance of my two years on the west coast.  Dinosaurs and fossils are a big thing for a kid.  I remember digging out a large winter home for my turtles (I had 18 at one time ... full size box, mud and eastern type) and they wintered in my parents fenced in backyard.  I eventually released them back into the wild (better than get run over by a car) at a wooded golf course my father and I golfed at.  I didn't trust my family to take care of them.  But in my work to provide them shelter during the winter, I found all kinds of teeth and bones, my neighbor told me they were horse teeth and some joints.  In south St. Louis, there are still mysteries.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

My posts are all online with none being removed as far as I know.  I have found @DeighAnn posts most enlightening and encouraging.  There are more I'm not mentioning here.  Others who take a more mathematical or logical approach like @Tristen, who I've had more disagreements with, but done so in a genuine respectful way.  And then there are still others who use science, like @one.opinion, who I may disagree with, but I always feel like I can learn something, like many others here at WCF.

I don't listen to podcasts with the exception of C. J. Lovik on YouTube and that's regarding Hermeneutics.  Dr. Michael S. Heiser has many podcasts that I've not explored yet.

Books I've read:

The Gap Is Not a Theory by Jack Langford

In the Beginnings by Steven E. Dill  (Probably my favorite.  I conversed with the author via e-mail for awhile.)

The Gap Fact - Michael Pearl

Without Form and Void - Arthur Custance

Earth's Earliest Ages - G. H. Pember

Another Time...Another Place - Finis Jennings Dake (and his commentary on the KJV Bible)

The Bible, Genesis & Geology: Rightly-Dividing Geology and Genesis - Gaines R. Johnson and Marti Rieske

I have a number of books by Dr. Michael S. Heiser, Dr. Stephen C. Meyer (Intelligent Design) and others on my future reading list, if the Lord tarries.  I know there's one more book I particularly wanted to include because it was the first time I read about an alternate view of Noah's Flood.

A Biblical Case for an Old Earth - Dr. David Snoke

Commentaries:

Unger's Bible Commentary on the OT (2 Volumes) Paper Only  (My favorite commentary, hard to find, OT only.)

Bible Knowledge Commentary (2 Volumes)

Believer's Bible Commentary

Expositor's Bible Commentary

Jamieson-Faucett-Brown Bible Commentary

Wycliffe Bible Commentary and others (Electronic Only).

and many, many more

Websites:

http://jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution Hoax/gap_theorists_defended.htm

http://www.learnthebible.org/evidence-for-the-gap-theory-from-the-creation-story.html

https://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html

https://www.kjvbible.org/

https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/uncategorized/the-gap-theory/

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-1.htm

and many more that are linked in my posts

Corrections/additions in red.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Saved.One.by.Grace
Thanks to one.opinion.

[angels4u]

11 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

My posts are all online with none being removed as far as I know.  I have found @DeighAnn posts most enlightening and encouraging.  There are more I'm not mentioning here.  Others who take a more mathematical or logical approach like @Tristen, who I've had more disagreements with, but done so in a genuine respectful way.  And then there are still others who use science, like @one.opinion, who I may disagree with, but I always feel like I can learn something, like many others here at WCF.

I don't listen to podcasts with the exception of C. J. Lovik on YouTube and that's regarding Hermeneutics.  Dr. Michael S. Heiser has many podcasts that I've not explored yet.

Books I've read:

The Gap Is Not a Theory by Jack Langford

In the Beginnings by Steven E. Dill

The Gap Fact - Michael Pearl

Without Form and Void - Arthur Custance

Earth's Earliest Ages - G. H. Pember

Another Time...Another Place - Finis Jennings Dake (and his commentary on the KJV Bible)

The Bible, Genesis & Geology: Rightly-Dividing Geology and Genesis - Gaines R. Johnson and Marti Rieske

I have a number of books by Dr. Michael S. Heiser, Dr. Stephen C. Meyer (Theistic Evolutionist) and others I my future reading list, if the Lord tarries.  I know there's one more book I particularly wanted to include because it was the first time I read about an alternate view of Noah's Flood.

Commentaries:

Unger's Bible Commentary on the OT (2 Volumes) Paper Only

Bible Knowledge Commentary (2 Volumes)

Believer's Bible Commentary

Expositor's Bible Commentary

Jamieson-Faucett-Brown Bible Commentary

Wycliffe Bible Commentary and others (Electronic Only).

and many, many more

Websites:

http://jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution Hoax/gap_theorists_defended.htm

http://www.learnthebible.org/evidence-for-the-gap-theory-from-the-creation-story.html

https://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html

https://www.kjvbible.org/

https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/uncategorized/the-gap-theory/

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-1.htm

and many more that are linked in my posts

Thanks, I might look some up on Youtube

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Thanks, I might look some up on Youtube

When I started finding so many errors in Finis Jennings Dake's Commentary of the KJV Bible I was reading, I found Unger's Commentary on the OT in two volumes.  Excellent books, there is no Unger's Commentary on the NT.  I assume he died before the NT was complete as a portion is referenced in the OT books.  This is a very hard 2-Volume Set to find because it's out of print with no electronic version available.  It's my favorite commentary although the Bible Knowledge Commentary comes close: OT and NT in two volumes plus electronic.  I will quote from that a lot signifying quoted sections as BKC.  John MacArthur has a commentary with his bible NKJV and ESV.  I've switched from the NASB and NIV to the ESV because that is what Michael S. Heiser uses.  He and Ken Johnson are my go to authors at the moment.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

About once a year, my great aunt from the eastern US came out to visit the family.  I remember her quite fondly.  One of the last books she bought me was a book on the La Bear tar pits in the urban part of Los Angeles.  I still have the book she bought me some many years ago but I regret not visiting the tar pits when I was living and working in and around Los Angeles.  I was just getting in deep with photography and it would have great to have as a remembrance of my two years on the west coast.  Dinosaurs and fossils are a big thing for a kid.  I remember digging out a large winter home for my turtles (I had 18 at one time ... full size box, mud and eastern type) and they wintered in my parents fenced in backyard.  I eventually released them back into the wild (better than get run over by a car) at a wooded golf course my father and I golfed at.  I didn't trust my family to take care of them.  But in my work to provide them shelter during the winter, I found all kinds of teeth and bones, my neighbor told me they were horse teeth and some joints.  In south St. Louis, there are still mysteries.

Hi,
I am so glad I went there as a kid because my 'thoughts' weren't corrupted by anything and so I got to see if for what it was.  I don't know how big or mean those dinosaurs would look to me now but I remember someone telling me they were taken on the ark and my only reaction was .  Still is to this very day...

Maybe living super close to the Grand Canyon (easy access) and visiting Meteor Crater cemented my beliefs in an OLD earth but when I ponder on what is written and what we are told is coming up, it doesn't 'feel' like the end of a super short period of time. 


I am bringing together all the Scriptures I run across that I believe show 'ages'.  It is so hard to speak to because it calls everything you put forth into question and those who 'already know everything that has already been taught throughout all generations  and nothing new better be introduced no matter how much Scripture backs it' jump all over it.  BUT I think that God has put a ton of it in there because it would be considered new...if that makes any sense at all.  ANY WAY

Here is my most recent addition.  They are adding up.  Isa 45:18, where it all started for me anyhow. 


Isaiah 51:1 Hearken to Me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged
Isaiah 51:2 Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Isaiah 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: He will comfort all her waste places; and He will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

Isaiah 51:4 Hearken unto Me, My People; and give ear unto Me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from Me, and I will make My judgment to rest for a light of the people.

Isaiah 51:5 My righteousness is near; My salvation is gone forth, and Mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon Me, and on Mine arm shall they trust.

Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but My salvation shall be for ever, and My righteousness shall not be abolished.

Isaiah 51:7 Hearken unto Me, ye that know righteousness, the People in whose heart is My law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

Isaiah 51:8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but My righteousness shall be for ever, and My salvation from generation to generation.

Isaiah 51:9 Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?

Isaiah 51:10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?

Isaiah 51:11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

Isaiah 51:12 I, even I, am He That comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;

Isaiah 51:13 And forgettest the LORD thy Maker, That hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?

Isaiah 51:14 The captive exile hasteneth that he may be loosed, and that he should not die in the pit, nor that his bread should fail.

Isaiah 51:15 But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of hosts is His name.

Isaiah 51:16
And I have put My words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of Mine hand,
that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
 

I don't know at what point it will be seen, but I do know it will be.  

d

[Guest]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi,
I am so glad I went there as a kid because my 'thoughts' weren't corrupted by anything and so I got to see if for what it was.  I don't know how big or mean those dinosaurs would look to me now but I remember someone telling me they were taken on the ark and my only reaction was .  Still is to this very day...

I've even come across people that believe they were all fake!  They get that from early Darwin supporters who faked skeletons I guess for notoriety.  But a full size mated pair of Tyrannosaurs and Brontosaurus and keeping them separate, that would be a miracle in and of itself, ark or no ark.  There's a show on the History Channel which shows ranchers who couldn't make enough money to keep their ranches in the black, made money digging up dinosaur fossils to make ends meet.

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Maybe living  close to the Grand Canyon (easy access) and visiting Meteor Crater cemented my beliefs in an OLD earth but when I ponder on what is written and what we are told is coming up, it doesn't 'feel' like the end of a super short period of time.

I am bringing together all the Scriptures I run across that I believe show 'ages'.  It is so hard to speak to because it calls everything you put forth into question and those who 'already know everything that has already been taught throughout all generations  and nothing new better be introduced no matter how much Scripture backs it' jump all over it.  BUT I think that God has put a ton of it in there because it would be considered new...if that makes any sense at all.  ANY WAY

I know what you mean.  When highways cut thru the landscape, you can sometimes see the geological layers.  In fact, when I was working in Cape Girardeau, MO, you could see in the staggered geological layers in rocks resulting from the New Madrid earthquakes of 1811-1812.  

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Here is my most recent addition.  They are adding up.  Isa 45:18, where it all started for me anyhow.

Isaiah 51:1 Hearken to Me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged
Isaiah 51:2 Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Isaiah 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: He will comfort all her waste places; and He will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

Isaiah 51:4 Hearken unto Me, My People; and give ear unto Me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from Me, and I will make My judgment to rest for a light of the people.

Isaiah 51:5 My righteousness is near; My salvation is gone forth, and Mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon Me, and on Mine arm shall they trust.

Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but My salvation shall be for ever, and My righteousness shall not be abolished.

Isaiah 51:7 Hearken unto Me, ye that know righteousness, the People in whose heart is My law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

Isaiah 51:8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but My righteousness shall be for ever, and My salvation from generation to generation.

Isaiah 51:9 Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?

Isaiah 51:10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?

Isaiah 51:11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

Isaiah 51:12 I, even I, am He That comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;

Isaiah 51:13 And forgettest the LORD thy Maker, That hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?

Isaiah 51:14 The captive exile hasteneth that he may be loosed, and that he should not die in the pit, nor that his bread should fail.

Isaiah 51:15 But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of hosts is His name.

Isaiah 51:16
And I have put My words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of Mine hand,
that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

I don't know at what point it will be seen, but I do know it will be.  

This is a very interesting passage of scripture.  There is so much meat here for the Christian to digest, I'm not sure I have previously gleaned all that's in this passage.  Isaiah 51:6 to 51:16 is especially interesting.  Thanks for reminding me.  God bless you.

[MrBear]

On 12/30/2021 at 8:40 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I've even come across people that believe they were all fake!  They get that from early Darwin supporters who faked skeletons I guess for notoriety.  But a full size mated pair of Tyrannosaurs and Brontosaurus and keeping them separate, that would be a miracle in and of itself, ark or no ark.  There's a show on the History Channel which shows ranchers who couldn't make enough money to keep their ranches in the black, made money digging up dinosaur fossils to make ends meet.

I know what you mean.  When highways cut thru the landscape, you can sometimes see the geological layers.  In fact, when I was working in Cape Girardeau, MO, you could see in the staggered geological layers in rocks resulting from the New Madrid earthquakes of 1811-1812.  

This is a very interesting passage of scripture.  There is so much meat here for the Christian to digest, I'm not sure I have previously gleaned all that's in this passage.  Isaiah 51:6 to 51:16 is especially interesting.  Thanks for reminding me.  God bless you.

Interesting links

im currently listening to Robert steins lectures on Hermeneutics 

Also really inspired by biblical Geography. I find people living in biblical times spent a majority of their times outdoors witnessing first hand Gods creations forming a strong bond, unlike today as people are quarantined with all surroundings that are man made We lose something when not outdoors I find the biblical geography tells a lot as the writers made an effort to be exact with locations, I find examples all over the Bible, like when Jesus after hearing of John the Baptist arrest moves from Nazareth to Capernaum was a huge impact it would be like someone from a backwoods town in Tennessee moving to New York, these places are emphasized for a reason a new guilty pleasure of mine

have any good links on biblical geography?

SHALOM❤️
 

"Wait for the Lord; be strong and courageous. Wait for the Lord."

- ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭27:14‬ ‭

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MrBear said:

Interesting links

im currently listening to Robert steins lectures on Hermeneutics 

Also really inspired by biblical Geography. I find people living in biblical times spent a majority of their times outdoors witnessing first hand Gods creations forming a strong bond, unlike today as people are quarantined with all surroundings that are man made We lose something when not outdoors I find the biblical geography tells a lot as the writers made an effort to be exact with locations, I find examples all over the Bible, like when Jesus after hearing of John the Baptist arrest moves from Nazareth to Capernaum was a huge impact it would be like someone from a backwoods town in Tennessee moving to New York, these places are emphasized for a reason a new guilty pleasure of mine

have any good links on biblical geography?

SHALOM❤️
 

"Wait for the Lord; be strong and courageous. Wait for the Lord."

- ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭27:14‬ ‭

What's interesting to me, and this is apropos to the whole world, but you'll have cities built on top of other cities.  What happened that people wanted to build over another city.

[angels4u]

9 hours ago, MrBear said:

Interesting links

im currently listening to Robert steins lectures on Hermeneutics 

Also really inspired by biblical Geography. I find people living in biblical times spent a majority of their times outdoors witnessing first hand Gods creations forming a strong bond, unlike today as people are quarantined with all surroundings that are man made We lose something when not outdoors I find the biblical geography tells a lot as the writers made an effort to be exact with locations, I find examples all over the Bible, like when Jesus after hearing of John the Baptist arrest moves from Nazareth to Capernaum was a huge impact it would be like someone from a backwoods town in Tennessee moving to New York, these places are emphasized for a reason a new guilty pleasure of mine

have any good links on biblical geography?

SHALOM❤️
 

"Wait for the Lord; be strong and courageous. Wait for the Lord."

- ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭27:14‬ ‭

This book brings  the life of Jesus in a good prespective,I  enjoy reading and studying it

Yeshua: The Life of Messiah from a Messianic Jewish Perspective - Arnold Fruchtenbaum.

 

[angels4u]

On 12/30/2021 at 1:29 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

When I started finding so many errors in Finis Jennings Dake's Commentary of the KJV Bible I was reading, I found Unger's Commentary on the OT in two volumes.  Excellent books, there is no Unger's Commentary on the NT.  I assume he died before the NT was complete as a portion is referenced in the OT books.  This is a very hard 2-Volume Set to find because it's out of print with no electronic version available.  It's my favorite commentary although the Bible Knowledge Commentary comes close: OT and NT in two volumes plus electronic.  I will quote from that a lot signifying quoted sections as BKC.  John MacArthur has a commentary with his bible NKJV and ESV.  I've switched from the NASB and NIV to the ESV because that is what Michael S. Heiser uses.  He and Ken Johnson are my go to authors at the moment.

Do you know Michael Heiser has his own podcast?