Hell

[Starise]

8 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

That is your choice. Our world is full of them. 

I try to base my choices on my studies and this was the reason for my comments. I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water here. Gotquestions can be very informative. I just think we need to be careful. 

The study of hell can be  potentially confusing, especially for a new believer who doesn't yet understand what some of it really means in light of how it was translated.

I also believe what God does will line up with His character. He is a fair, patient and merciful judge. He will dispense the grapes of wrath one day on those who chose not to follow Him. I think there is a difference between wrath, judgement and cruelty.

God, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are our supreme example in all things. The bible says God does not change, so whatever His character is today, it is the same tomorrow and the next day.

[missmuffet]

I have said all that I care to say on the subject of "hell". I do not care to be interrogated especially on a Christian website. I will now put this subject and post on ignore. 

[Starise]

Well, if you happen to read this. I was trying NOT to come off like that to you. 

I do have my views though and same as you I feel they are biblical ones 

I am always willing to admit I am wrong in order to find the truth. Truth will always be more important than being right for me.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

5 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

The punishment is eternal...there is no coming back from the second death which revelation says follows hell and judgment day in the lake of fire

No what I am objecting to is what cannot be found in the bible....eternal torment

Rev 14:11 KJV - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Mat 22:13 KJV - Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 16:24-25 KJV - And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

This sounds like eternal torment. How can there be weeping and gnashing of teeth, thirst, no rest day or night if your annihilated???

Edited January 27, 2022 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Selah7]

Greetings…

No one, in my opinion, will spend an eternity in hell; they will perish.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 
 - 2 Pet 3:9

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

- John 3:15-16 

perish
622  apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee);
from 575 and the base of 3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: 
KJV-- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

selah

 

[Hobie_]

9 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Rev 14:11 KJV - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Mat 22:13 KJV - Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 16:24-25 KJV - And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

This sounds like eternal torment. How can there be weeping and gnashing of teeth, thirst, no rest day or night if your annihilated???

Yes, but look at the totality of the this fire from God as used in the Bible and then you can see what is meant. Lets look at the text in scripture:
“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” Mark 9:43, 44.

Some ask what is the unquenchable fire that scripture speaks about that burns the wicked? Doesn't that mean it will never go out? Of course, it doesn't. To quench means to extinguish or put out. No one will be able to put out the fire of hell. That is the strange fire of God. No one will be able to escape from it by extinguishing it. Now its repeated, but Christ use of this expression was one which was well known and understood by those whom Christ was addressing. Isaiah and Jeremiah frequently use the figure of the undying worm and quenchless fire. In their familiar Scriptures the people daily read these expressions. Let us see what idea they would derive from them. We turn to Jeremiah 17:27, and read:  

"But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched." Jeremiah 17:27.

But is it still burning today, of course not as anyone can see for themselves. So we need to understand this more clearly and see how the Bible uses the word "quench." It does not mean fire that will never go out. Isaiah says of that fire, "Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor a fire to sit before it." Isaiah 47:14. After it has accomplished its work of destruction, that fire will go out.

The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out as we have already seen how the same expression is used in Jude concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7.

In this use for the fire of "eternal" "everlasting" many are applying modern definitions without reference to their ancient contextual usage and violates one of the most fundamental rules of interpretation.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning today, yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we are told that it was an example of something. So what example is it of?

"And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Peter 2:6.

The eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. So the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. This is a eternal fire as like Sodom and Gomorrha they will be no more as it will burn the wicked to ashes.

[Hobie_]

Now we can learn the meaning that was attached to the expression, “unquenchable fire,” by the Hebrew people. This fire was not to be quenched so it was unquenchable. But if we look at the actual happening of the prophecy in 2 Chronicles 36:19, it was kindled in the gates of Jerusalem, and did devour the palaces so it was a literal, natural fire, but for Gods purpose.

But how could a fire of this kind be supposed to be a fire that would burn eternally? The Jews at Jerusalem would not understand as burning forever, but as it was prophesized, it was a fire allowed by God for a purpose, in this case punishment, and so it was. 

Jerusalem was burned according to Jeremiah’s prediction that it should be consumed in 'unquenchable fire'. But how long did that fire burn, basically only till it had reduced to ashes the gates and palaces on which it was set. So we see that this unquenchable fire is simply a fire that is not quenched, and does not cease, till it has entirely consumed that which feeds it. Then it dies out of itself, because there is nothing more to burn. The expression does not mean a fire that must absolutely eternally burn, and that consequently all that is cast into it to feed the flame must forever be preserved by having a portion renewed over and over.

To the wicked, this fire is unquenchable, because it will not be quenched, or caused to cease, till it has entirely devoured them. We see it in many verses...

“But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs; they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” Psalm 37:20.

"For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch .." Malachi 4:1

“And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the souls of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.” Malachi 4:3.

The eternal fire burns up eternally, so the wicked will die, or cease to exist, forever. Even Satan, the cause of evil, is finally consumed along with his minions.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Hobie_

[Riverwalker]

13 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Rev 14:11 KJV - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Mat 22:13 KJV - Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 16:24-25 KJV - And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

This sounds like eternal torment. How can there be weeping and gnashing of teeth, thirst, no rest day or night if your annihilated???

It maty sound like it.....but it is not saying it.  There is torment but it is not eternal...the smoke there of is. The outer darkness lasts until the second death in the lake of fire

 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

21 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

It maty sound like it.....but it is not saying it.  There is torment but it is not eternal...the smoke there of is. The outer darkness lasts until the second death in the lake of fire

 

No, the second death is not annihilation.   Check out the following scriptures:

Rev 19:20 KJV - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10 KJV - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Lake of Fire is not annihilation but eternal torment.  Says they were cast alive into the lake of fire to be tormented forever.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Riverwalker]

14 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

No, the second death is not annihilation.   Check out the following scriptures:

Rev 19:20 KJV - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10 KJV - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Lake of Fire is not annihilation but eternal torment.  Says they were cast alive into the lake of fire to be tormented forever.

Neither of those quotes about PEOPLE but the devil and the false prophet...you are trying to cross a gap between people and the devil and his angels that has no bridge