What is the 'New Covenant'?

[Your closest friendnt]

@Charlie744, 

Hi Charlie I enjoy reading through this thread, we needed a thread like this one. 

If I would be asked to make a positive contribution to this OP I would go at the time of the "last supper" just before the Cross, so this one was the Last Supper of Jesus with his disciples just before the Cross. 

That Supper it was the Celebration of the Passover when Jesus as was the custom of celebrating the Passover lifted up the Cup with the red wine and instant of saying the customary speach what this cup of red wine symbolizes to those celebrants at that time Jesus this time said: "this is the blood of the New Covenant which will be said for the forgiveness of sins for many."

And at that moment everyone lifted up their cups and drank from them following Jesus who did the same thing.

But I do not think that the wine in their cups or the cup of Jesus had turned into blood, so they still enjoyed a cup of red wine with Jesus, even though a ritualistic celebration but the wine was still tasted wine and it was one of the best quilities specially brewed for this occasion. 

But this was not the last time Jesus had something to drink from the fruit of the wine, as at the time just before he died when he asked for a drink the gave him vinegar to drink instant of wine.

So Jesus Christ died with that taste of vinegar in his mouth.

But he was faithful till the end he still died and said the blood of the New Covenant for the forgiveness of sins not only of the good Jews but also for those who asked Pilate to Crucify him, and he died even for the Romans who carried away the Crisificton.  

 

[Charlie744]

25 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@Charlie744, 

Hi Charlie I enjoy reading through this thread, we needed a thread like this one. 

If I would be asked to make a positive contribution to this OP I would go at the time of the "last supper" just before the Cross, so this one was the Last Supper of Jesus with his disciples just before the Cross. 

That Supper it was the Celebration of the Passover when Jesus as was the custom of celebrating the Passover lifted up the Cup with the red wine and instant of saying the customary speach what this cup of red wine symbolizes to those celebrants at that time Jesus this time said: "this is the blood of the New Covenant which will be said for the forgiveness of sins for many."

And at that moment everyone lifted up their cups and drank from them following Jesus who did the same thing.

But I do not think that the wine in their cups or the cup of Jesus had turned into blood, so they still enjoyed a cup of red wine with Jesus, even though a ritualistic celebration but the wine was still tasted wine and it was one of the best quilities specially brewed for this occasion. 

But this was not the last time Jesus had something to drink from the fruit of the wine, as at the time just before he died when he asked for a drink the gave him vinegar to drink instant of wine.

So Jesus Christ died with that taste of vinegar in his mouth.

But he was faithful till the end he still died and said the blood of the New Covenant for the forgiveness of sins not only of the good Jews but also for those who asked Pilate to Crucify him, and he died even for the Romans who carried away the Crisificton.  

 

Thank you for your comment! I have also thought of this scene and wanted to understand it’s message, if any (and since my time studying Daniel I have found there is ALWAYS a message behind the Words presented). Clearly, Jesus was in agony and very close to death but beyond the obvious need for water I believe He was revealing a special message to us.

Perhaps He was demonstrating that even at this time on the Cross Jesus was revealing His total commitment to His Father’s mission. In Matthew 20:22, Jesus asked James and John if they were prepared to drink the cup He was given. I believe Jesus, even at or near His death and in unbelievable agony still asked for the ‘cup’ He was given to drink from which was so bitter. However, He would demonstrate His complete obedience to His Father even to the very end. Then Jesus would declare, ‘it is finished’. 
Just my thoughts, and thanks again to your thoughts! Great to hear from you again! Charlie 

[Charlie744]

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

It may come as a surprise, but the Church was not revealed to the prophets of Old

 Ephesians 3:4-9a; Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,

Col 1:26–27; 26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Looking back with the New Testament, we can see Types and Shadows a plenty, but the Church per se was not revealed to the prophets. Jeremiah was an Hebrew prophet writing in Hebrew to Hebrews. The text is not disputed. The Hebrew and English are plain. No interpretation is needed. The New Covenant is to be made with Israel - (i) the sons of those who came out of Egypt, and (ii) when the Two Houses of the divided Kingdom are one again.

But, don't rush. Check for yourself.

Just wanted to make a comment or two in continuation of the Jeremiah 31 prophecy which speaks of the New Covenant.

We agree that 31 specifically speaks to making the NC with the House of Israel, which was divorced from God, and Judah who was not divorced by failed to fully obey God. If we place the main topic aside for a second -What is the NC?’, we might consider further the two ‘audiences’ God is intending to ‘contract’ with - just who are these two groups, if you will.

Are they the two ‘ pure’ groups of the 12 tribes of Israel? I mentioned last evening, and in an earlier response (perhaps 4 pages ago) IF the blessings by Jacob to Ephraim and not Manasseh may be relevant to this NC. I do not know why God had Jacob blessed the younger son of Joseph (anyone please feel free to respond). 
Getting back to the NC… I was thinking about this last night and ‘think’ this JUST MIGHT be relevant in Jeremiah’s prophecy. Ephraim is now the 13th tribe or the 11th within the House of Israel who were divorced from God. I believe Joseph’s two sons were born of a Gentile (Egyptian?) wife, consequently, they were part Gentile. The tribes returned to the promised land and then the ‘11’ tribes were taken by the Assyrians and dispersed all over the Gentile world. They intermarried and assimilated in their respective communities. 
But God promised to bring the House of Israel back and unite them with Judah THROUGH this NC. God did not have to specifically identify the Gentiles in the 31 prophecy because they would be included by way of the tribe of Ephraim. Consequently, ALL mankind would be included in partaking of this NC with God. No longer and Jew, Greek or Gentile. The New Covenant is made for ALL who are children of Abraham!!!!!  And of course Jacob and Joseph and their offspring are all children of Abraham. God is unbelievable. 
The more I think about this the more I like it although I do not know the Scriptures at the time of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But as I mentioned last evening that since I have been studying Daniel I have found there are NO coincidences, random words, unnecessary fillers (words), perceived errors or inconsistencies within Daniel. So many messages that are there to uncover and so many that connect with prior books of the Bible and so many that confirm the time if Christ and beyond His time on earth. 

Anyway, I believe the 31 prophecy includes Ephraim (Gentiles) and all mankind are to be included in the NC with God. Now, it is up to God just HOW to execute His NC!  And of course He had that all worked out as well with Paul being sent to the House of Israel and Jews throughout the world, and Judah, of course would be taught the NC as well. 
But this NC is much different than the others - a much better one! This agreement / covenant can ONLY be entered into at the cellular level - each individual must sign their own agreement. There is no longer a ‘corporate’ covenant / agreement signed by the Jewish leaders for all Jews. They are no longer responsible for administering the covenant / agreement for their people with God. Essentially, God fired them as their (Jewish nation) legal representative. And since they failed to represent the Gentiles in their administrative capacity to bring them into the knowledge of the One try God, they too were removed from any relationship. Now this NC identified in Jeremiah 31 covers ALL mankind and is administered by God Himself WITH each individual person who accepts Jesus as their Messiah. Now, He will send His Holy Spirit (no longer the Jews) to teach His Word AND give us the DESIRE not to WANT to sin. The LAW on the stone tablets told us WHAT we need to obey but it could not or did not teach or instruct us HOW to obey the LAWS. His NC is so much better (not done away with or destroyed) but now God has changed a few of the important ‘provisions’ in His original agreement / covenant with Israel (which now includes ALL mankind) with one of the most important being He will personalize His Covenant with us, write on our hearts, give us His teacher (HS) and give us the power to obey.

Well, that’s my story and I am sticking with it… until / unless I hear back from you folks.

Please let me know your thoughts! Charlie 
 

 

 

 

[Charlie744]

47 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Just wanted to make a comment or two in continuation of the Jeremiah 31 prophecy which speaks of the New Covenant.

We agree that 31 specifically speaks to making the NC with the House of Israel, which was divorced from God, and Judah who was not divorced by failed to fully obey God. If we place the main topic aside for a second -What is the NC?’, we might consider further the two ‘audiences’ God is intending to ‘contract’ with - just who are these two groups, if you will.

Are they the two ‘ pure’ groups of the 12 tribes of Israel? I mentioned last evening, and in an earlier response (perhaps 4 pages ago) IF the blessings by Jacob to Ephraim and not Manasseh may be relevant to this NC. I do not know why God had Jacob blessed the younger son of Joseph (anyone please feel free to respond). 
Getting back to the NC… I was thinking about this last night and ‘think’ this JUST MIGHT be relevant in Jeremiah’s prophecy. Ephraim is now the 13th tribe or the 11th within the House of Israel who were divorced from God. I believe Joseph’s two sons were born of a Gentile (Egyptian?) wife, consequently, they were part Gentile. The tribes returned to the promised land and then the ‘11’ tribes were taken by the Assyrians and dispersed all over the Gentile world. They intermarried and assimilated in their respective communities. 
But God promised to bring the House of Israel back and unite them with Judah THROUGH this NC. God did not have to specifically identify the Gentiles in the 31 prophecy because they would be included by way of the tribe of Ephraim. Consequently, ALL mankind would be included in partaking of this NC with God. No longer and Jew, Greek or Gentile. The New Covenant is made for ALL who are children of Abraham!!!!!  And of course Jacob and Joseph and their offspring are all children of Abraham. God is unbelievable. 
The more I think about this the more I like it although I do not know the Scriptures at the time of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But as I mentioned last evening that since I have been studying Daniel I have found there are NO coincidences, random words, unnecessary fillers (words), perceived errors or inconsistencies within Daniel. So many messages that are there to uncover and so many that connect with prior books of the Bible and so many that confirm the time if Christ and beyond His time on earth. 

Anyway, I believe the 31 prophecy includes Ephraim (Gentiles) and all mankind are to be included in the NC with God. Now, it is up to God just HOW to execute His NC!  And of course He had that all worked out as well with Paul being sent to the House of Israel and Jews throughout the world, and Judah, of course would be taught the NC as well. 
But this NC is much different than the others - a much better one! This agreement / covenant can ONLY be entered into at the cellular level - each individual must sign their own agreement. There is no longer a ‘corporate’ covenant / agreement signed by the Jewish leaders for all Jews. They are no longer responsible for administering the covenant / agreement for their people with God. Essentially, God fired them as their (Jewish nation) legal representative. And since they failed to represent the Gentiles in their administrative capacity to bring them into the knowledge of the One try God, they too were removed from any relationship. Now this NC identified in Jeremiah 31 covers ALL mankind and is administered by God Himself WITH each individual person who accepts Jesus as their Messiah. Now, He will send His Holy Spirit (no longer the Jews) to teach His Word AND give us the DESIRE not to WANT to sin. The LAW on the stone tablets told us WHAT we need to obey but it could not or did not teach or instruct us HOW to obey the LAWS. His NC is so much better (not done away with or destroyed) but now God has changed a few of the important ‘provisions’ in His original agreement / covenant with Israel (which now includes ALL mankind) with one of the most important being He will personalize His Covenant with us, write on our hearts, give us His teacher (HS) and give us the power to obey.

Well, that’s my story and I am sticking with it… until / unless I hear back from you folks.

Please let me know your thoughts! Charlie 
 

 

 

 

Since I had sent the above response I continued to think about it.... and again, there are NO coincidences in the bible and everything is written for a reason (we just have to find the RIGHT reason), but I remember Jacob had to 'cross' his hands to bless the younger son Ephraim  ---- certainly the blessing could have been completed in many other ways.... but might this point to the Cross where Jesus would enter into the NC with the House of Israel (Ephraim as representing the Gentiles) symbolized by the crossing of his hands? Charlie

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you for your comment! I have also thought of this scene and wanted to understand it’s message, if any (and since my time studying Daniel I have found there is ALWAYS a message behind the Words presented). Clearly, Jesus was in agony and very close to death but beyond the obvious need for water I believe He was revealing a special message to us.

Perhaps He was demonstrating that even at this time on the Cross Jesus was revealing His total commitment to His Father’s mission. In Matthew 20:22, Jesus asked James and John if they were prepared to drink the cup He was given. I believe Jesus, even at or near His death and in unbelievable agony still asked for the ‘cup’ He was given to drink from which was so bitter. However, He would demonstrate His complete obedience to His Father even to the very end. Then Jesus would declare, ‘it is finished’. 
Just my thoughts, and thanks again to your thoughts! Great to hear from you again! Charlie 

Thank you for your feed back.

This was the last test Jesus Christ had to go through. 

To not retaliate to what was done to him but to focus on his mission till the very end. 

He had in mind that the cup God had put infront of him it was a cup of vinegar and not of a sweet wine. 

This is something that was understood between him and God and even though there are maybe many thoughts about this event as they are many diverse minds, this one event had a special meaning between Jesus Christ and God.

That it would have been a conformation from God to him that your mission has been accomplished, all that was written about you has been fulfilled and your time to die has come.

God had to keep him alive till all was fulfilled, everything that was written about him and his time to die had come.

Jesus Christ had successfully drank the bitter cup that God had put infront of him.

Before the Cross and after the Cross. 

Before the Cross Jesus had said and did many things that applied to the times before the Cross. Because he was within the boundaries of his mission from God. 

We see that when he said to his disciples and to the seventy he had chosen when he sent them to their mission to go only to the Jewish villages and not to go to the Gentile territory. 

And the same applied to him when he said my mission is not to go to the Gentile nations, only to the Jews.

And this is a truth fact because Jesus Christ head quarters that time before the Cross was the area around the sea of Galilee and from there he did not go to the North but he went to the South to Judea. 

So Jesus said his mission was to go to the Jews. 

But before the Cross Jesus also said that he has come for the lost sheep of Israel and not for the righteous but the unrighteous sheep of Israel,  those who have the need of a physician, the sick and those who had a heavy burden to carry who were cut off from the righteousness of the Law. 

[Your closest friendnt]

Before we had look at what Jesus said before the Cross, and bellow are the scriptures of what Jesus said to his disciples after the Cross. 

This is what Jesus said to his disciples within the New Covenant, after the Cross. 

Mathew 28:18-19

Matthew 28:18–19 (ESV): 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Acts 1:8 

1. [8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Just wanted to make a comment or two in continuation of the Jeremiah 31 prophecy which speaks of the New Covenant.

We agree that 31 specifically speaks to making the NC with the House of Israel, which was divorced from God, and Judah who was not divorced by failed to fully obey God. If we place the main topic aside for a second -What is the NC?’, we might consider further the two ‘audiences’ God is intending to ‘contract’ with - just who are these two groups, if you will.

Are they the two ‘ pure’ groups of the 12 tribes of Israel? I mentioned last evening, and in an earlier response (perhaps 4 pages ago) IF the blessings by Jacob to Ephraim and not Manasseh may be relevant to this NC. I do not know why God had Jacob blessed the younger son of Joseph (anyone please feel free to respond). 
Getting back to the NC… I was thinking about this last night and ‘think’ this JUST MIGHT be relevant in Jeremiah’s prophecy. Ephraim is now the 13th tribe or the 11th within the House of Israel who were divorced from God. I believe Joseph’s two sons were born of a Gentile (Egyptian?) wife, consequently, they were part Gentile. The tribes returned to the promised land and then the ‘11’ tribes were taken by the Assyrians and dispersed all over the Gentile world. They intermarried and assimilated in their respective communities. 
But God promised to bring the House of Israel back and unite them with Judah THROUGH this NC. God did not have to specifically identify the Gentiles in the 31 prophecy because they would be included by way of the tribe of Ephraim. Consequently, ALL mankind would be included in partaking of this NC with God. No longer and Jew, Greek or Gentile. The New Covenant is made for ALL who are children of Abraham!!!!!  And of course Jacob and Joseph and their offspring are all children of Abraham. God is unbelievable. 
The more I think about this the more I like it although I do not know the Scriptures at the time of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But as I mentioned last evening that since I have been studying Daniel I have found there are NO coincidences, random words, unnecessary fillers (words), perceived errors or inconsistencies within Daniel. So many messages that are there to uncover and so many that connect with prior books of the Bible and so many that confirm the time if Christ and beyond His time on earth. 

Anyway, I believe the 31 prophecy includes Ephraim (Gentiles) and all mankind are to be included in the NC with God. Now, it is up to God just HOW to execute His NC!  And of course He had that all worked out as well with Paul being sent to the House of Israel and Jews throughout the world, and Judah, of course would be taught the NC as well. 
But this NC is much different than the others - a much better one! This agreement / covenant can ONLY be entered into at the cellular level - each individual must sign their own agreement. There is no longer a ‘corporate’ covenant / agreement signed by the Jewish leaders for all Jews. They are no longer responsible for administering the covenant / agreement for their people with God. Essentially, God fired them as their (Jewish nation) legal representative. And since they failed to represent the Gentiles in their administrative capacity to bring them into the knowledge of the One try God, they too were removed from any relationship. Now this NC identified in Jeremiah 31 covers ALL mankind and is administered by God Himself WITH each individual person who accepts Jesus as their Messiah. Now, He will send His Holy Spirit (no longer the Jews) to teach His Word AND give us the DESIRE not to WANT to sin. The LAW on the stone tablets told us WHAT we need to obey but it could not or did not teach or instruct us HOW to obey the LAWS. His NC is so much better (not done away with or destroyed) but now God has changed a few of the important ‘provisions’ in His original agreement / covenant with Israel (which now includes ALL mankind) with one of the most important being He will personalize His Covenant with us, write on our hearts, give us His teacher (HS) and give us the power to obey.

Well, that’s my story and I am sticking with it… until / unless I hear back from you folks.

Please let me know your thoughts! Charlie 
 

 

 

 

I have read your four posts. If I were an analyst, I would say that that you can't get past the obstacle of the plain language of Jeremiah 31. I'm not blaming you or anything, but your initial belief is, as I said in my first posting (I know it's long), is that the Gentiles are somehow included. Now, I know that my "side" exchange about the seed can get complicated, so lets leave any "deeper" understanding and concentrate on what Jeremiah says. If you do not include Ephraim, Jacob's blessing, God's divorce and the Last Supper, but just take God's Words as they are, the matter is simple. God will make a New Covenant of Law with Israel.

And this Israel is defined inside the text. It is the offspring of "the fathers who came out of Egypt", and it is the COMBINATION of:

1. The "House of Israel" - a term used for the northern Tribes who broke with Rehoboam after Solomon's death, PLUS
2. The "House of Judah" - term used for the Southern Tribes who stayed with the House of David

It does not need any speculation or interpretation, addition or subtraction. God said it was Israel COMBINED, and Israel combined is none other than the offspring of Jacob. The Church was not revealed to Jeremiah and the Gentiles are not mentioned.

What happens is that the most influential entity in the world, the Roman Catholic Church, is not interested in Israel's recovery. They are pure "Kingdom Now". They want to rule the earth politically and financially, and Kingdom Now theology allows them to claim Israel's blessings made by the prophets. And thus, they either factor out Israel, and say that God is finished with them, OR, they say the promises of the Old Testament are the Church's. This is not true, BUT it has been taught for a thousand years.

I am proposing to you, and you will be the judge, that Israel is Israel - the offspring of Jacob. Let's just offhand see why no Gentiles are involved:

1. The Covenants, except for that made with Noah, are ALL made with Israel
2. The Nation of Israel grew by fruit of the womb
3. Israel were forbidden by Law to have relations with the Gentiles
4. Israel were dispersed NOW because they broke the Law
5. Israel are promised Canaan
6. Israel refused the prophets and murdered them
7. Israel refused their Messiah and murdered Him
8. Israel refused the disciples of Messiah and murdered them
9. Israel remains blind, hardened and in unbelief till the time of the Gentiles is full. They occupy a LOW position now
10. Israel will be restored to their Land and to favor with God

Now compare that with the Church:

1. The Church is subject to the Covenant of Noah (Gen.9:9, Act.15:20, 29)
2. The Church is subject to the Covenant of Abraham (Gal.3:29)
3. The Church was never under the Covenant of Law
4. The Church started on resurrection day (Jn.20:22)
5. The Church grew by men having a New Birth by the Holy Spirit
6. The Church will be chastised in the Millennium - not NOW
7. The Church is promised the world (Rom.4:13) - NOT Canaan
8. The Church has embraced Messiah
9. The Church should love Messiah
10. The Church ARE the disciples of Messiah
11. The Church is predicted to become apostate. That is, the Church occupies a HIGH position now but will slip down

It is at once obvious that the Church is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT entity to Israel. And they remain totally different even on the New Earth. The Church, built on the foundation of the Apostles, is the Wall of New Jerusalem. Israel, the twelve of Jacob, are Gates.

Take your time to consider each statement. If they are correct, then try to forget a thousand years of teaching that the Church is somehow connected to the New Covenant. No small task.

[Your closest friendnt]

7 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

I have read your four posts. If I were an analyst, I would say that that you can't get past the obstacle of the plain language of Jeremiah 31. I'm not blaming you or anything, but your initial belief is, as I said in my first posting (I know it's long), is that the Gentiles are somehow included. Now, I know that my "side" exchange about the seed can get complicated, so lets leave any "deeper" understanding and concentrate on what Jeremiah says. If you do not include Ephraim, Jacob's blessing, God's divorce and the Last Supper, but just take God's Words as they are, the matter is simple. God will make a New Covenant of Law with Israel.

And this Israel is defined inside the text. It is the offspring of "the fathers who came out of Egypt", and it is the COMBINATION of:

1. The "House of Israel" - a term used for the northern Tribes who broke with Rehoboam after Solomon's death, PLUS
2. The "House of Judah" - term used for the Southern Tribes who stayed with the House of David

It does not need any speculation or interpretation, addition or subtraction. God said it was Israel COMBINED, and Israel combined is none other than the offspring of Jacob. The Church was not revealed to Jeremiah and the Gentiles are not mentioned.

What happens is that the most influential entity in the world, the Roman Catholic Church, is not interested in Israel's recovery. They are pure "Kingdom Now". They want to rule the earth politically and financially, and Kingdom Now theology allows them to claim Israel's blessings made by the prophets. And thus, they either factor out Israel, and say that God is finished with them, OR, they say the promises of the Old Testament are the Church's. This is not true, BUT it has been taught for a thousand years.

I am proposing to you, and you will be the judge, that Israel is Israel - the offspring of Jacob. Let's just offhand see why no Gentiles are involved:

1. The Covenants, except for that made with Noah, are ALL made with Israel
2. The Nation of Israel grew by fruit of the womb
3. Israel were forbidden by Law to have relations with the Gentiles
4. Israel were dispersed NOW because they broke the Law
5. Israel are promised Canaan
6. Israel refused the prophets and murdered them
7. Israel refused their Messiah and murdered Him
8. Israel refused the disciples of Messiah and murdered them
9. Israel remains blind, hardened and in unbelief till the time of the Gentiles is full. They occupy a LOW position now
10. Israel will be restored to their Land and to favor with God

Now compare that with the Church:

1. The Church is subject to the Covenant of Noah (Gen.9:9, Act.15:20, 29)
2. The Church is subject to the Covenant of Abraham (Gal.3:29)
3. The Church was never under the Covenant of Law
4. The Church started on resurrection day (Jn.20:22)
5. The Church grew by men having a New Birth by the Holy Spirit
6. The Church will be chastised in the Millennium - not NOW
7. The Church is promised the world (Rom.4:13) - NOT Canaan
8. The Church has embraced Messiah
9. The Church should love Messiah
10. The Church ARE the disciples of Messiah
11. The Church is predicted to become apostate. That is, the Church occupies a HIGH position now but will slip down

It is at once obvious that the Church is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT entity to Israel. And they remain totally different even on the New Earth. The Church, built on the foundation of the Apostles, is the Wall of New Jerusalem. Israel, the twelve of Jacob, are Gates.

Take your time to consider each statement. If they are correct, then try to forget a thousand years of teaching that the Church is somehow connected to the New Covenant. No small task.

Hope that you are not taking this personally but you are telling people what to believe, you are not discussing you are not making your point with a reason to further an exchange of information. 

The Man told you that he does not know yet about a lot of things. 

You are not teaching him something that he needs to know. 

[AdHoc]

17 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hope that you are not taking this personally but you are telling people what to believe, you are not discussing you are not making your point with a reason to further an exchange of information. 

The Man told you that he does not know yet about a lot of things. 

You are not teaching him something that he needs to know. 

I hear you brother. I'll try to extricate myself elegantly. I can't really apologize for my style because i haven't a clue what you, or Charlie, require in my postings. I can only be myself and hope my message is considered and not my style.

[Your closest friendnt]

@Charlie744,

Reading your posts I can see thirst to know a lot of things. 

"ISRAEL" is a name  synonymous with Jesus Christ. 

The first time that we see this name is when the Lord gave Jacob a blessing that neither Abraham or Issac did not have.

The Promise it was first given to Abraham but he was not the one to decide who would be the heir of this promise. 

The promise to Abraham was that from him, from his offspring God will take a Nation for himself.  

Even Sarah knew about this promise and as she was the only wife of Abraham she must have been full of hope that she will give birth to the promise heir of this promise. 

Sarah was hoping for this blessing to come to her because she was getting very old to have a child even a man child a heir for Abraham. 

But both her and Abraham must have been puzzle because Sarah got very old and her time for child bearing was up, that both her and Abraham lost their hope and as it was the custom Abraham who had refused to take another wife accepted that Eliezar the Servant first in comment after Abraham will be the heir of the Lords blessing to make his promise come to pass. 

To be continue...