Looking at Matt 24, the first 14 verses

[Omegaman 3.0]

37 minutes ago, Josheb said:

On every occasion where that occurs there shouldn't be disagreement. 

But we know there will be .

There is too much to respond to in that post, so I will take the part about getting back to the OP, but, sometimes that kills a thread - and sometimes it deserves a nice, painless death. 
I will reply to a couple of things quickly, one is that the antipode of Burkle Crater is the Mojave Desert of California, but it does not matter, as no, I would not read Frankies' books, though that is a nice offer, I have hundreds of books here that I have not read, I don't need to collect more. Here are a few of them.

Also, I have thought about the 'missing' Corinthian letters, and wondered if one or more were found, would they, could the be canonized? Who would he in charge of such a thing now, lol!

[Omegaman 3.0]

40 minutes ago, Josheb said:

You and I both know the thread is going to liven up once the futurists start weighing in. Settle in for the ride .

I am not sure about that, just because of where this post is. It is in the Study Group, not the Eschatology area. This place does not collect fanatics as quickly, lol!

[Anne2]

6 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Point taken, but I am not convinced that it is outside of Gods' wisdom in revelation, that things in scripture later can become relevant, to those who will need it at the right time. As an example of that, I would take it that preaching to the uttermost parts of the world, would include Polynesians, not merely the world known to readers of scripture at the time of it's writing. I am expecting that you would agree with that, explicit or not!

This is a pretty broad group at Pentecost

act 2:5   And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
 

[Omegaman 3.0]

54 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

This is a pretty broad group at Pentecost

act 2:5   And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Interesting quote there. I was recalling that these were Jews who spoke different languages, and I think I would have recalled they were multi-national, but I do not recall was the phrase - "dwelling at Jerusalem". Sounds sort of like they lived there, but I suppose it is more likely that they were living there temporarily, there for the festival.

However, all though I am not sure it will actually work, but we got off track, and hoping to get back to beginning verses of Matt 24, though there may not be much more to say, we'll see!

Thanks for the reply Anne2!

[AdHoc]

18 hours ago, Alive said:

This is characterizing a brother with ill intent and not acceptable. Please, knock it off.

Make your points in love rather than seeing something in a brother you cannot know.

I hear you brother. Your points are understood.

[Alive]

Some of us are indeed…long winded.

Wait…that was about posters.

:-)

One of many points made here that I have adopted for my own sanity and study on eschatological points is that there being so many positions expounded by those who are convinced “God showed them”, and yet each may differ widely…is that not all can be correct, but all can be wrong. In part or wholey.

Another point that Keeps me sane…relatively…I very much doubt that any man on earth today fully understands Revelation. I do believe some of the original readers did and explained it to others as it circulated.

Perhaps not fully, but almost certainly, what Our Lord wanted them to.

The Lord is like that. He provides for His own.

I have asked the Lord for eschatalogical clarity…I am still waiting…and reading…and heeding what my brothers offer.

oh..one more point that has also been made. I used to know a lot more than I do now. Knowing this, I try to stick with what I know. Life is so much easier.

:-)

[Starise]

I understand comments and then scripture references and not three chapters of scripture posted to Worthy.

A post 24 inches long loses me fast. Though I admit I read some of them. Not sure how much of it went into my tired brain late last evening.

Matthew 24 in particular is an interesting piece of scripture. I think we need more than the first part of it to gain the correct context, so breaking those verses up into chunks isn't helpful to me.

If we read the WHOLE chapter I think we get a different view of the text. The chapter preceding it and even chapters which after are helpful too.

THEN compare it to other texts. I'm not telling anyone anything they don't already know. Just sayin'

You want the best meanings you gotta dig and assuming is very dangerous.

[Alive]

6 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Interesting quote there. I was recalling that these were Jews who spoke different languages, and I think I would have recalled they were multi-national, but I do not recall was the phrase - "dwelling at Jerusalem". Sounds sort of like they lived there, but I suppose it is more likely that they were living there temporarily, there for the festival.

However, all though I am not sure it will actually work, but we got off track, and hoping to get back to beginning verses of Matt 24, though there may not be much more to say, we'll see!

Thanks for the reply Anne2!

The histories that I have read, describe Jerusalem filling up with Jews from all over for feasts. Seems the Lord used that for the initial spreading of the Word, for those folks went back home, fraveling on those wonderfully prepared before hand Roman roads.

Pretty cool.

[angels4u]

14 hours ago, MattLovesCoffee said:

What you said at the end here fails to take into consideration all the other hundreds upon hundreds of End Times prophecies. For example Revelation 14:6-12, "Next I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven with everlasting Good News to proclaim to those living on the earth — to every nation, tribe, language and people..." So His return is not dependent on us preaching the Gospel but that the preaching will be via angels and will happen at a predetermined time during the Tribulation, the latter half.

And we cannot make it speed up because God already established when it would all occur. Back in the Torah God told us the 6+1 pattern in Genesis 1, in the 7 Festivals, the layout of the Temple, the Sabbath Rest law and various other laws in the Torah (when you open your prophetic eyes). Both the Psalms and 2 Peter say "one day is as a thousand years" and both are in context of knowing the timing of prophetic fulfilment. The Epistle of Barnabas might not be canon but it dates to the first century and provides valuable insight to how the first believers thought. In chapter 15:1-6 it shows they already knew that from Adam to the end of the age would take 6000 years, they realised the Sabbath Rest was a prophecy, which would then be followed by the Millennial Reign of Messiah. Christ was crucified in 33CE, being the most scholarly consensus, so we're looking at 2033CE being Messiah's return in the third quarter of the year, and late 2026CE for the commencement of the Tribulation. From the crucifixion to His return will take 2000 years, being prophetic days 5 and 6 on the Sabbath Rest calendar. Even Genesis 1 Day 5 spoke of marine life flourishing and flying creatures and dinosaurs. Day 6 spoke of mankind being created. Now the fifth millennium (33CE to 1033CE) was known for the Gospel going to the nations (a.k.a. prophetic for the seas). Believers overcame sin (flying above), and the dinosaurs represent the philosophy of man, Institutionalized Christianity and Islam. The sixth millennium (1033CE to 2033CE) has seen mankind spread all over the earth, and is finishing strongly with the religion of man. The great problem with Christianity is the failure to understand the Torah, if Christians today knew it they would know the "day nobody knows" is NOT referring to Messiah's return to earth on the Day of Atonement (the tenth day of the seventh month) but rather to the Day of Trumpets (the first day of the seventh month which the Jews call the unknown day), which precedes the Tribulation, and we call it the Rapture (Isaiah 57:1-2; Revelation 3:10). It's also a secret because God has not told the year He will take His Church, but there are only five possible years (opportunities) left. All the End Times prophecies are beginning to converge rapidly now.

Read The End of the Beginning by Ken Power, available for free to read online and download from his website. He digs deep into the Olivet Discourse of Matthew, Mark and Luke, and you'll see that it's not strictly chronological.

May I ask who Ken Power is?

[angels4u]

11 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Nah, none needed. I also am a windbag, inkbag, and pixelbag as it suits the occasion. Some things cannot be said succintly without sacrificing relevance.

I do not find myself, fundamentally, disagreeing with anything you wrote above (I think)! I do however question things like people exegetical hierarchies. The first thing I want to know about them, is where in the Bible, do we find this list. In this case, where in the Bible does it say to understand the test as the original author and his audience, would have understood it? It that is not is scripture, then it is manmade, invented by sinners with corrupted thinking. I am not saying it is wrong, nor even ill advised, I am just not sure I have seen that outline in scripture, so I am suspect.

Adding to the suspicion, it what I think is a demonstrable fact, that the authors did not always understand what they wrote, and in the case of the Apostles at least before Pentecost, they did not understand what Jesus said either. Certainly Jesus said in essence a few times:

"Are you really this dull?"

The temple of His body, is a case in point, where they were like "Aha, now I get it, he meant his body, DOH!". Now, with that perspective in mind, you can get an idea of how reliable it can be  to try to understand things as the audience would have understood them. Sone things were written in parable, to be misunderstood, by those they were not intended to reach. Jesus had to explain those, but He has not explained them all. There are passages (Daniel) where the meaning was hidden, sealed, until a certain, later time. I am not convinced that this is not the case for eschatology now, though that is sort of an argument from silence. It seems to me that much of the symbolism of Revelation makes little or no sense to me, but I expect they will make sense to those they need to make sense to, when the time comes.

In cases like that, one of my exegetical rules would be to understand scripture not in a literal sense (although I think that is the first way to consider it), but recognizing in not only (if even that) how the audience would have understood, but allowing for the fact that not all writing is the same style. There is history, poetry, prophecy, apocalyptic literature etc. Mind you, I have no Theological training (in the sense that I have not been to seminary), so I am just a struggling layman, not to be believed. However, I am also wise enough to know, that having ThD after your name, also does not make on right, it just makes one educated.

A number of years ago, I published a sort of list of principles I use (I do not go down a checklist, they are just second nature to me as I read/study), in fact I use some of them reading any text, not just Bible. Right or wrong, I don't know, but I think so far, they have served to guide me fairly well. People here, of course disagree with me from time to time, but I notice also, that usually they do not do so from any impressive exegesis either, lol. My list here was in 2008, so I might have added or subtracted some in the last 14 years, always learning, always refining.

There are a few things that I am not comfortable with. 

One, things are spiritually discerned. To me it is obvious, that we have the Spirit to guide our understanding. By obvious, I mean that is what I understand the scripture to say. The problem is, that here on the forums (and outside of them) there are lots of people who disagree with me, and I with them, and them with each other. Some ideas are contradictory, so they cannot all be correct, but they could all be incorrect. I certainly do not have the confidence (AKA pride) to say to someone "I am right and you are wrong, because I have the Holy Spirit inside of me!".

Another thing that troubles me a little, is the question, of how do we know that the Bible is inspired? By that I do not mean scripture that God has inspired, I see that as a given, even though it is circular reasoning. What I mean is, are the 66 book I have, the right ones? Could there be 65, or 67? I take it by faith, in the Bible, that my faith in God is justified, and that strikes me as a bit creepy, lol.

Anyway, I appreciate your replies Josheb. I find them well thought out, rational, well researched, and I can tolerate the length because of those features.

Quote

Another thing that troubles me a little, is the question, of how do we know that the Bible is inspired? By that I do not mean scripture that God has inspired, I see that as a given, even though it is circular reasoning. What I mean is, are the 66 book I have, the right ones? Could there be 65, or 67? I take it by faith, in the Bible, that my faith in God is justified, and that strikes me as a bit creepy, lol.

By faith I believe the whole Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit,remember the warning in Revelation when we take away from the Word?