The Last trump

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

Has it ever occurred to you that there is more than one last day?

It's your claim and belief there is more than one Last Day, I Disagree

The Lord will raise all believers on the Last Day, with no other Days  following

John 6:40KJV

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

All will be judged on the Last Day, with no Days to follow

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Edited February 18, 2022 by truth7t7

[The Light]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

It's your claim and belief there is more than one Last Day, I Disagree

The Lord will raise all believers on the Last Day, with no other Days  following

John 6:40KJV

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

All will be judged on the Last Day, with no Days to follow

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Well, if there is not more than one last day, then the dead are already raised.

John 7

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

It seems as if the Word says there is more than one last day. Or have the dead been raised?

[transmogrified]

8 hours ago, The Light said:

The scripture clearly tells us that the Lord himself comes in one coming and He sends His angels at another coming.

Please show me the scriptures in which Jesus comes in one coming, and then he sends his angels at another coming.

 

8 hours ago, The Light said:

Two comings prior to the wrath of God.

Please provide the scriptures showing two comings prior to the wrath of God.

 

8 hours ago, The Light said:

So, when do you think this second coming occurs, before or after Armageddon?

Rev. 19 shows Jesus descending from heaven with his armies. He is coming to make war with the beast at Armageddon...as it states in Rev. 19:19

"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth (the ten kings) and their armies, gathered together (Armageddon- and he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon...Rev. 16: 16) to make war against him that sat upon the horse (Jesus descending down from heaven ....Second Coming) and his armies (all his saints and his mighty angels) ...and the beast was taken (Jesus destroys the man of sin, or the beast with the brightness of his coming...2 Thess. 2 :8) 

Armageddon occurs at the Second Coming...Rev. 19 is depicting him come down from heaven to the great supper where the birds eat the flesh of captains and might men...this is Armageddon...this is the Great Day of God Almighty...in other words, this is the Last Day...The Great and terrible day of the Lord. It takes place on the very day Jesus returns. 

9 hours ago, The Light said:

23 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Please show me the scripture where the church is already in heaven when the Lord comes, before the seals are opened. 

Rev 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

The above translation has a built in contradiction and I have looked up the oldest manuscript showing the correct translation. Almost all the newer translations have made the correction...I don't know how it was mistranslated, but we know God said he would preserve his Word, but sometimes men makes errors in their translations.

For example, in the KJV, Joshua 24:2 states "....Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor; and they served other gods."

Was Abraham alive on the 'other side of the flood?' No, he was not. There are some verses where it seems plausible this word could have been translated flood, but most of the verses using this word have it translated 'river.'

Most newer translations have translated Josh. 24:2 using the word 'river' rather than 'flood' because it does not fit the context that Abraham was on the other side of the flood. 

So should we keep saying Abraham lived on the other side of the flood even though we know he didn't? No. We accept the correction. 

So anyway looking at Rev. 5 the quote that was given states 'And they sang a new song saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; for thou was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation."

I highlighted the word 'they' and 'us' and so we need to go back and see who is talking in the previous verse:

Verse 8 'And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb...and they sang a new song saying..."

Who are the 'they?' It is the four beasts, which are shown to be angelic beings, and the twenty four elders that fell down before the lamb and sang this song....thou has redeemed US to God...but wait, how would angels be singing a song that they were redeemed out of every nation kindred and tongue...angels do not get redeemed, neither are they out of every kindred nation and tongue, so how is it that they, both the 4 beasts and the 24 elders are singing this song?

It plainly states that THEY sang this song that God had redeemed THEM. In this case the older version is correct because it does not contain this built in contradiction. And what does the correct translation state?

"And they sang a new song, saying, "worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have caused THEM to become a kingdom of priests for our God. And THEY will reign upon the earth."

So you can see the corrected translations eliminates the contradiction that angels are singing to God saying they have been redeemed out of every nation, but rather they are praising God that he ransomed people out of every nation.

Seeing this is the correct translation, there is no place in here where the 24 elders are thanking God that they were redeemed...both the 4 beasts and the elders are singing about God redeeming people unto God, not the elders singing one song thanking God they were redeemed and the angels singing another song thanking God that people were redeemed.

So if the elders are the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles, the thought is that they are representing the old and new testament saints, and the fact that they all have crowns of gold, it is then put forth that all the old and new testament saints have been resurrected, judged and rewarded before the tribulation. 

However this would disanul Rev. 11:16 where it states that when the 7th trumpet sounds immediately after the tribulation it is the time of the dead that they should be judged, and that he would give reward to his saints and to the prophets, and to them that fear his name, both small and great. See what it specifically states...the 7th trumpet is 'the time of the dead that they should be judged,' so if the time of the dead is at the 7th trumpet, the time of the dead that they should be judged is not before the tribulation. The saints are also rewarded at the 7th trumpet so if they are rewarded at that time, they would not have been rewarded before then. 

Paul said that he had fought the fight and finished his course so there was a crown of life laid up for him which he would receive 'at that day.' and not to him only, but to ALL those who love his appearing.

So there is not two separate times for saints to receive their crowns...when Paul gets his, so will all the other saints, and Rev. 11 states that will be at the 7th trumpet and not before.

23 hours ago, The Light said:

One coming will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. Even as the Church will be in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel.

Another coming will be like the days of Lot where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

These are not two separate comings, they are two analogies of the same coming...like I could say my car is white, and I could also say my car has a radio, but I am not talking about two cars, but rather two attributes of the same car.  

23 hours ago, The Light said:

One coming will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood.

Noah was not in the ark seven days before the flood...it says they were eating and drinking until the day that Noah entered the ark...if Noah entered into the ark seven days before the flood, what would stop people from eating and drinking at that time? They get up in the morning and see that Noah has entered into the ark and nothing has happened...no flood...its another day...why would they stop eating and drinking for seven days? 

Matthew 24:38- "For as in the days that were before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark."

No, they stopped eating and drinking because the flood came and took them away, which was the same day Noah entered into the ark.

It could be misunderstood when reading Genesis because it says 'come thou into the ark, but then it says for yet seven days and I will cause it to rain...but the thing he was commanded to do which it says he did during the seven days, was to take of every clean beast by sevens..of beasts that are not clean by two and of the fowls by sevens the male and the female...and then it says in verse 10 "...and it came to pass after seven days..." this is seven days after God told him to come into the ark and take with him the certain kinds of animals, "that the waters of the flood were upon the earth...the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up...and the rain was upon the earth ...in the selfsame day entered Noah...what selfsame day? The selfsame day that the waters were upon the earth.  The previous 7 days Noah was gathering the animals into the ark as God had told him to do. 

23 hours ago, The Light said:

Even as the Church will be in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel.

For the church to be in heaven there must a resurrection first. As it says in 1 Thess. 4:16...the dead in Christ must rise first...so even though we do not know the day or the hour, it is apparent if the resurrection of all believers happens on the last day and the resurrection must happen before the rapture, then it would be impossible for the church to be in heaven before the last day.

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

Jesus is talking to the Jews. When they see the abomination of desolation...

Jesus is talking to the disciples who were asking him about what the signs of his coming would be...if a person was of the literal seed of Abraham and he was a believer he would see the abomination of desolation just as much as if a Gentile who was a believer would see him. 

In order for them to be up in heaven they would of had to be resurrected, which of course does not happen until the last day.

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

Here is the first fruits of the twelve tribes across the earth.

Rev 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb

I am not sure why this verse would be quoted to prove these would be the firstfruits of a pre-tribulation rapture...pre-trib doctrine does not say  the 144000 will be raptured in the pre trib rapture...it is asserted that the pre trib rapture pertains to saints who were alive from Pentecost until the rapture. 

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

The Jews will be regrafted into the olive tree. That is obvious because we see 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes of Israel.

Yes, they are grafted in but this will happen at the Second Coming...not before the tribulation as Zech. 12:10 - Zech. 13 shows. This conversion happens when they see Jesus at the Second Coming when they will say, 'What are these wounds in thy hands...?" As it states, 'the first (Jews) shall be last and the last (Gentiles) shall be first.'

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

However, the Jews have been blinded and cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Yes, but the fullness of the Gentiles does not come in until the Second Coming...The new testament is still in effect during the tribulation and whosever will call upon the Lord will be saved. 

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

The Gentiles will be in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel begins.

They cannot get there if there is no resurrection first....and the resurrection does not happen until the last day so they cannot be in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel begins. 

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

When the secret pretribulation rapture of the Church happens God will turn His attention to His Chosen, as the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

The rapture of the believers cannot happen before the resurrection which happens on the last day...so if Joe Smith is serving God today and tomorrow the tribulation period begins, God does not leave Joe Smith and only deal with people who are of the physical lineage of Abraham...no...Jesus said I am will you always, even until the end of the age.

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

On 2/16/2022 at 11:43 PM, transmogrified said:

Although we do not know the day or the hour we can know from this verse that something has to happen before the rapture of the living saints. What is that something? It is the dead in Christ must rise. If you connect this to when Jesus said all the believers would be resurrected on the last day, it can easily be seen that there could be no rapture before the last day.

In summary: If the resurrection must happen BEFORE the rapture, and the resurrection of ALL saints will not occur until the last day, there can be no rapture before the last day.

We do not know others are also called first fruits. Please show me where there are others that will be resurrected before the last day. Jesus said he would resurrect all believers on the last day...so there could be no resurrection for any believer before that time.

Expand  

Wait a minute. Which resurrection must happen before which rapture?

One resurrection will happen when Christ returns for His Church. The dead will rise first. Does the Word say all the dead will rise first? Or just the dead in Christ? Those that are in Christ are sealed believers. Will the righteous dead that were before Christ be raised when Christ returns for His bride? 

Quote

Wait a minute. Which resurrection must happen before which rapture?

There is only one resurrection of the dead in Christ and Paul specified that it would take place at the Last Trump:

"Behold I show you a mystery, we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the Last Trump."

When it says we shall all be changed it means this body puts on immortality which takes place at the resurrection...

The one example that makes this more clear is when the two witnesses are killed and lay dead in the street for 3. 5 days...Their bodies had already began to decompose, but then something happened...it says 'the spirit of life from God enters into them and they stand upon their feet...' so we know from scripture that it says our bodies return to the dust at death, but the spirit returns to God who gave it...so in these verses it shows the spirit of life from God enters back into them and they stand upon their feet, in other words they have been resurrected from the dead...as Jesus said in John 6 'all that believe will be resurrected on the last day..' these two witnesses are part of the group of those that believe and they are no exception...their resurrection takes place on the same last day as all the other believers...this is not a separate resurrection...remember, we are ALL changed in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the Last Trumpet.

So if there is any question about who the dead in Christ are it describes them in more detail in Rev. 11:18 when the time of the dead occurs and God gives the rewards out to the believers. How are they described here?

It says "...the time of the dead that they should be judged and that thou shouldest give reward to:

1) Thy servants the prophets....this would be like Moses, Isaiah, John...ect

2) To the saints...all saints are included here...no distinctions between Old Testament saints, first fruits saints, tribulation saints, New Testament saints...

3) To them that fear thy name, both small and great..this is another way of saying 'Whosever does the will of my father the same is my mother and my brother...it is the congregation of saints from Adam until the Second Coming

So another analogy of the dead in Christ would be the Olive Tree in Romans 9. It says Israel was the natural branches and then the Gentiles were later grafted in contrary to nature. But consider that the vine is not Israel...it is the branches that were Israel...the true vine is Jesus Christ and we are the branches...so when it says Israel was in the vine, it shows they were in Christ and were later cut off because of unbelief.

But when it says they will be grafted back in, what would they be grafted back into? They would be grafted back into the same vine from whence they were cut off from which was Jesus Christ. So all the Old Testament saints would have also died in Christ and all believers are included in this as Jesus said "I am the true vine and ye are the branches...'

Jesus did not break the resurrection into different categories for different believers...in John 6 he said 'All that the father gives me shall come to me and I will raise him up at the last day..."

God gave all the saints to Jesus so there is no one excluded from this resurrection...and it must be considered when he said ALL those that believe will be resurrected there is no way anyone else could have been resurrected before this...in other words, he did not say 'all those who I have not already resurrected will be raised on the last day...' but rather 'all those who believe' regardless of what time period they were living in..

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

Will the righteous dead that were before Christ be raised when Christ returns for His bride? 

Yes, when this resurrection of the righteous happens it says 'All those that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth...John 5:28..It does not say all the righteous from the day of Pentecost until the rapture will come forth...these are not the only people who would be in the graves, as the graves have saints from Adam and forward...

Also the analogy of the wheat and tares shows this again...the wheat are the children of the kingdom...the wheat grows together with the tares UNTIL the harvest which is the end of the age...there is not a part of the wheat that gets harvested before the end of the age and another part that gets resurrected at the end of the age...No. ALL the wheat gets harvested at one time, at the end of this age.

The same with the good and bad fish analogy...the net was only lowered one time when it was full of good and bad fish...this does not fit the pre-trib doctrine at all...they have a net being lowered at one time for part of the good fish, then another net lowered for the rest of the good fish and then they have another net lowered for only the bad fish...

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

Yes, in one aspect the bride and the Church are the same thing. But let's consider this.

John 10

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus is bringing Jews and Gentiles into one fold. The Jews are blinded and must be regrafted into the olive tree. That will not happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Yes, exactly ...one fold and one shepherd...at this time Jesus was referring to the Gentiles which would be grafted in, and yes it is correct that Israel will not be grafted in until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in, which will be at the second coming. 

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

By the way there are two brides, one for each harvest. Jacob had the first bride Leah and had to work 7 more years for his chosen bride Rachel.

There is only one body, which is called the bride of Christ...God does not have two churches or two congregations...like the scriptures that were just given...there shall be ONE FOLD and one shepherd..

Paul specified more about this in Ephesians...3:6 "That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.." 

The types and shadows in the Old Testament are just that...they are shadows and sometimes they are long and sometimes they are short...if you want clarity you do not look at my shadow but rather look at my photograph...that is what Hebrews said 'they were a shadow of things to come, but NOT the very image of the thing.'

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

You might study the 7 Feasts of Israel. There are two harvest feasts.

Exactly the same as the above...they are shadows and not the very image...the very image states the harvest is the end of the age in which all saints will be resurrected at the last day at the seventh trumpet.

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

Here are the dead in Christ rising at the trump of God or voice of God. This happens before the 70th week of Daniel.

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

In this very scripture it says the 'dead in Christ must rise first...' this resurrection of the dead in Christ does not take place until the last day, so neither this resurrection nor the rapture can be occurring before the tribulation starts. 

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

Here is the gathering which occurs at the 6th seal which occurs at the last trump which is blown of the Feast of Trumpets.

1 Cor 15

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There is only one gathering as Paul states in 2 Thess. 2...He starts out 'We beseech you by the coming of our Lord and our gathering together unto him..." There is only one coming and only one gathering and he says in verse three that both his coming and the gathering, which would be the resurrection / rapture, would happen on one day.

He begins by saying the coming of our Lord and our gathering together unto him and then says 'THAT DAY shall not come unless there come a falling away first..."

What day (singular day) is he talking about? The day in which both the coming and the gathering occur...the last day at the last trump...the resurrection is the key to all this, as the resurrection of the dead is a foundational doctrine in Hebrews 6...therefore any doctrine that contradicts how the apostles and prophets and Jesus Christ described the resurrection of the dead would be building on another foundation, as Paul said...I have laid the foundation...let every man take heed HOW he builds on this foundation, not WHETHER he builds on this foundation. If one goes outside of this foundation there is no support for whatever is built on it, and as he said 'everything that can be shaken will be shaken...only the foundation of God will stand sure.

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

Noah is in the ark 7 days BEFORE the flood. This is an analogy of the Church being in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel

Noah does not enter the ark until the day it begins to rain. Noah does not escape the flood...the ark protects him through the flood...

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

(which is why there is no mention of them after the seals are being opened)

It shows those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus...these are saints..in other words these are the church...in other words these are part of the body of Christ...in other words these are part of the bride of Christ...they were beheaded for the witness of Jesus AND FOR THE WORD OF GOD...to say the saints aren't mentioned after the seals are opened is false...who dies for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God who is not a saint? No one. 

Even at the very end of Revelation it shows the things that were written throughout the book were written to the church:

Rev. 22:16-"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches..."

Daniel states that the beast makes war against the saints...these are saints...these are the bride of Christ...these are believers just like you are a believer...the only difference is that these saints will be alive during the time the beast is ruling the world while other saints were not, but they are all saints and of the same body of Christ.  

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

The story of Lott is an analogy of the chosen bride being raptured the very day destruction comes.

This would just be another analogy of the same resurrection / rapture as other scriptures are defining this same event in different ways...similar to the gospel...4 different writers all speaking about the same events...like if I am at the intersection and I see a bus pull out in front of a bike, I might see some things that another person didn't see from another corner of the intersection, but it is not two wrecks...both persons are seeing the same thing from different angles. 

On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, The Light said:

Two raptures, two brides, two harvests...all in the Word of God. 

It has only been shown that there are some variations in the analogies between Lot and Noah...this does not equate to two different raptures as it plainly states ALL are changed at one time...if ALL are changed at the last trump then there are not two raptures...scripture only shows one harvest at the end of the age in which both the good and the bad are resurrected and judged and rewarded...not two harvests at two different times. 

Blessings to you and good to talk with you- Gary

[transmogrified]

 

On 2/17/2022 at 1:36 PM, Last Daze said:

As I've said before, "cometh" was inserted by the translators.  Check it out for yourself. It could have easily been rendered "at" which would read "then at the end" which makes a ton more sense since Paul is giving an order of resurrection.  The sequence is Christ, those who are Christ's at His coming, then the end.

Hello again- 

I know this was not addressed to me but wanted to look at some of the things that were said here.

I am not seeing a distinction between saying 'then cometh the end,' versus 'then at the end...' The word 'then' means at that same time or immediately afterward, so saying 'then at the end' or 'then the end' would still mean the same thing as then cometh the end...he is saying there will be a resurrection and then the end will come. He is talking about the end of this age...as this is how he described it in the wheat and tares...'so shall it be at the end of this age'...yes it is the end of this age, but then we enter into the next age called the 1000 year reign...

On 2/17/2022 at 1:36 PM, Last Daze said:

I think you place too much emphasis on "then cometh the end".  Think about it.  According to your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:23-24 there's no time when the wicked dead are raised. 

This is slightly off topic but still needs to be addressed. There is a belief that only the righteous dead are resurrected at the second coming and then the wicked dead are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years.

Could you please give me your take on the wheat and tares? How is that he says both wheat and tares are resurrected judged and rewarded at the end of this age, if in fact only the wheat are resurrected judged and rewarded at the end of this age?

It specifically states the tares are judged and cast into the fire at the same time the wheat is gathered into the barn,  which is of course at the Second Coming. 

Blessings to you- Gary

[The Light]

7 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

Now, logically, I would agree with the first interpretation but... I agree with the latter that the rapture will take place later.  Why????  When there is a seeming contradiction, I look to the feasts to determine the solution.

Hi Tim from pa. I be from pa also.

It's awesome that you are looking to the feasts as that is the blueprint of things to come. 

7 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

  In a pre-trib rapture, the church being caught away is a type of the feast of Trumpets,

Let's take another look. Pentecost is a harvest feast. Has a harvest occurred? No. The harvest has not occurred; thus, Pentecost is unfulfilled, despite the many claims of such. It would seem that the barley harvest represents the dead in Christ as barley ripens around passover. Wheat would seem to represent the Church and the harvest occurs on Pentecost.

7 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

 

but so is the gathering of Israel 7 years (after the Tribulation) later.  Of course there are not two fulfillments of the feast, but only one as with Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost.

No harvests have occurred therefore not all these feasts are fulfilled, contrary to popular opinion.

As I said earlier the Feasts of Israel are a blueprint of what is to come.

I am curious as to when you think the tribulation is over in the book of Revelation. What chapter?

7 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

  So it was not "rapture logic" but "feast day logic" that convinced me that there's only one return for the church at the same time Christ comes to the earth.

Hmmm. That's unusual because it was "feast day logic" that solidified the idea that there would be two raptures. The rapture of the Church before the 70th week of Daniel, so God could turn his attention to His Chosen.

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

What really convinced me that there would be two raptures is the fact that the fig tree has two harvests. Look it up. It's fact.

 

7 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

Now... do you believe in a pre-Trib rapture?  Unlike those who will argue otherwise I HOPE YOU ARE CORRECT as I would not want to endue this Tribulation. 

Would you think that we are commanded to WATCH and BE READY if we were going through the tribulation?

Luke 21

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

We can escape ALL THE THINGS that will come to pass. Those things are the things that occur during the 70th week of Daniel. They are the things that happen during the 1st 6 seals.

 

The tribulation occurs during the 70th week of Daniel. That is the time that God deals with the Jews who are the people of Daniel.

Daniel 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

7 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

But on the other hand, I do not see in the Scripture where this is definitely promised.  

Thank you, brother, for posting this topic. Maranatha !

Oh, it's there brother. It is not meant to be easily seen as we are not to know when his is coming. 

Matt 24

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

Well, if there is not more than one last day, then the dead are already raised.

John 7

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

It seems as if the Word says there is more than one last day. Or have the dead been raised?

"Last Day" of the great feast, self explanatory 

John 7:37KJV

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Edited February 19, 2022 by truth7t7

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Could you please give me your take on the wheat and tares? How is that he says both wheat and tares are resurrected judged and rewarded at the end of this age, if in fact only the wheat are resurrected judged and rewarded at the end of this age?

I think first we need to establish what's meant by "this age".  Why to you think that the end of "this age" comes before the millennium instead of after?

[transmogrified]

31 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I think first we need to establish what's meant by "this age".  Why to you think that the end of "this age" comes before the millennium instead of after?

Its because the time the wheat gets harvested is at the same time the tares get harvested....when do the children of the kingdom get resurrected and rewarded? Its at the second coming at the 7th trumpet...Matthew 13 and others state the tares are cast into the fire at the very same time...the children of the kingdom are the saints...

Matthew 13:30

" The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of THIS world. (or age) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth...THEN (at the same time the tares are cast into the fire) shall the righteous shine forth in the kingdom of their Father..."

Summary of the above:

1) The harvest is the end of this age...

2) The saints are rewarded at the end of this age

3) The tares are rewarded at the same time, the end of this age

The saints are not rewarded at the end of the 1000 years, but at the second coming....Jesus is saying the tares are cast into the fire at the same time saints are rewarded which would also not be at the end of the 1000 years but at the second coming.

It is the same thing with the good and bad fish...the net is lowered one time and gathers both the good and the bad fish....when it is full it is gathered one time at the Second Coming and then the good are separated from the bad...there is not one net let down for the good fish only, then let down again later for only the bad fish...No. The net is let down once and is not drawn to shore until it is full of good and bad fish. 

So when would the good fish be drawn to the shore? It is the same scenario as with the wheat and tares...the good fish are the saints and they are rewarded at the Second Coming, but the bad fish are also resurrected at the same time and then separated..this is why Rev. 11:16 states  it is the time of the dead that they should be judged...not just the righteous dead, but the all the dead are resurrected and judged...like he said...the hour comes when ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth...both the wicked and the righteous...so the righteous are not raised at his voice at one time and then later at another time the wicked hear his voice...but ALL hear his voice and come forth...Jesus said he would judge both the living AND the dead at his appearing and kingdom...the dead means the dead, not just the righteous dead...

 

[Last Daze]

29 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

The saints are not rewarded at the end of the 1000 years, but at the second coming....Jesus is saying the tares are cast into the fire at the same time saints are rewarded which would also not be at the end of the 1000 years but at the second coming.

What about the saints that live during the millennial kingdom?

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

What about the saints that live during the millennial kingdom?

There won't be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Edited February 19, 2022 by truth7t7