SUN and MOON

[WilliamL]

On 3/14/2022 at 3:34 PM, AdHoc said:

The argument that the Nations (who are outside the City) do walk in the light of Christ does not remove the need for the sun.

Maybe. But remember, there was light on the First Day, but the sun did not come into existence until the Fourth Day.

[AdHoc]

19 hours ago, Keras said:

The Earth will Burn:     2 Peter 3:7, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zeph. 3:8, Isaiah 33:10-12

In ancient times, God promised to Noah that He would never again destroy the earth with a flood. Genesis 9:11 But we see in Deuteronomy 32:34-35 & 22, God has kept in His storehouse a judgement of fire prepared and ready for His Day of vengeance.

 As we are once again ‘as in the days of Noah’, this terrible and devastating Day of fires, storms and earthquakes will soon strike the world, it will be the next prophesied event that will commence all that must happen, leading up to the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.

Psalms 46:1-11 The Lord is our refuge and stronghold, He will help us in trouble, so we are not afraid when the earth is shaking and the mountains move; when the waves of the sea roar and the earth is quaking before the Lords majesty.            Nations are in an uproar and kingdoms fall when the Lord thunders; the earth burns.

 Come and see what the Lord has done, the desolation He has brought on the earth. He makes wars to cease throughout the world, He breaks the bow, snaps the spear and burns the chariots in the fire.

 There is a river whose flow brings joy to the city of God, the holy Place of the Most High. The Lord is within her, she will not be overthrown and at the break of Day, He will come to her aid.

 Be still and know that I am God, I will be exalted among the nations and revered throughout the world. The Lord Almighty is with us, the God of Jacob is our Rock.

 

This describes how the Lord will judge and punish the nations and ‘the desolation He will bring to the earth’. He will destroy all weapons of war and military forces will be neutralized or wiped out, but the Lord promises ‘to be a refuge’ to His people, when at the ‘break of day, the sea roars, the earth quakes and burns’. It is His great Day of vengeance and wrath, a massive explosion of the suns surface that will bring about all the vividly described effects. We are warned to be prepared for that terrible Day, but our only true protection will be our faith and trust in the Lord. Isaiah 30:15 & 18

 Isaiah 9:18-19 The ungodly will be set ablaze, as a fire that consumes briars and thorns. It sets the forests on fire and all is wrapped in a pall of smoke.

The land is scorched by the fury of the Lord and the people will be fuel for the fire. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Romans 1:18, Hebrews 10:27

Psalms 50:3-5 The Lord is coming and will not remain silent. A consuming fire runs ahead of Him and all around a great storm rages. He calls to the heavens above and the earth below, that He may judge His people.

  Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those who have made a Covenant with Me by sacrifice.  1 Peter 3:17  Ref: REB, NIV.  Some verses abridged.

 

This is not the Return of Jesus in His glory, that cannot happen until the Anti-Christ is revealed. 2 Thess. 2:3 It will be the Lord’s judgement and punishment of the nations, Psalms 110:5-6, Habakkuk 3:12, and all the world will be affected. It will be triggered by an attack on the State of Israel by an Islamic confederation. Psalms 83

The Lord’s people will be judged, Jeremiah 46:27-28, 1 Peter 4:17 and those who are His ‘loyal servants’, will be protected.  Zechariah 9:15-16, Joel 3:16, Psalms 37:9, Zephaniah 2:3, 2 Thess.1:6-10

                                                                                                                

Thank you for your reply. I can see where you are coming from.

[tim_from_pa]

On 3/14/2022 at 3:31 AM, Keras said:

In our Bibles the sun and the moon are mentioned many times. Some are allegorical, but most describe actual changes and differences to those visible objects.

The sun and the moon are established in the heavens, in the known area of space, which continues into infinity. Psalms 74:16, Jeremiah 31:35

The sun and the moon are also used metaphorically; Psalms 84:11, Micah 4:2 and Matthew 15:43 tell us about the sun of Righteousness.  Revelation 12:1 tells about a ‘woman’ clothed with the sun, who represents faithful Israel, who are now; every true Christian person.

 

However: there are many Bible prophesies which plainly describe dramatic changes to the sun and the moon.  Isaiah 30:26 says that the sun will shine with seven times its normal brightness and the moon will reflect it, as it does now, at about a seventh of the suns current strength.  This event is what Luke 21:23, Revelation 6:12-17 and more than 100 other verses prophesy - the terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath.

 

Then other Prophesies say how the sun will be darkened; Isaiah 13:10, Joel 2:10 & 3:15, and Amos 8:9 says this will happen at noon. 

Zephaniah 2:4-6 also cites noontime for when the Middle East will be devastated by the Lord’s wrath. Hosea 4:3, Isaiah 10:23, Ezekiel 6:14, Joel 1:20

The next time the sun is mentioned, is in Revelation 16:8; the Fourth Trumpet.

 

Then; when Jesus Returns; the sun will again be darkened. Matthew 24:29, Isaiah 24:23

Finally; after the Millennium, there will no longer be a sun or moon for Eternity. Isaiah 60:19-20, Revelation 22:5

 

So what we need to do is to figure out the correct sequence of events and how they are caused. This will enable us to stand firm as dramatic things occur and then to stand before Jesus, having proved our faith in Him and our trust in His protection.

 

 

 

 

When we see how messed up this world will be, I often say there's one thing people should be thankful for.  The Lord did not make the sun blow up.  Of course scoffing scientists would say that our sun is not massive enough to nova.  Well, that may be true, but did they consider a careening planet the size of Jupiter from elsewhere could fall into the sun?  That would make it 7 times hotter like in Revelation, or again maybe even a nice accretion disk.  That would be just as effective.

The "Sun of Righteousness" is the pivotal scripture I use to counter the argument that the sun is bad for your health.  I mock that idea asking why God would place a big cancer-causing orb in the sky that other forms of life here on this earth are nurtured by it? Even our dogs and cats are smart enough to lay in the sun.  When they had enough, they seek shade; no complex "sunscreen". People can do the same.

[Keras]

Jeremiah 25:30-38 The Lord roars from on high. He thunders from His holy place. He roars loudly against His holy Land and like a grape treader, He shouts against all the inhabitants of the earth. The great noise is heard around the world. For the Lord brings His judgement against the nations, He arraigns all mankind and hands over the wicked and godless to the sword.

       The Lord says, ‘Disaster spreads from nation to nation, a mighty tempest is unleashed, that will blast to every corner of the world’. Those whom the Lord has killed on that Day will be strewn from one end of the earth to the other, they will not be mourned or buried, but left as dung upon the ground.

 

        Cry out you bad shepherds and useless leaders of My people, the Day comes for your demise, you will fall like prize rams to the slaughter.  There will be no escape from the Lord’s fierce anger, like a lion leaping to the kill.

        Disaster will suddenly strike and their land will become desolate because of the fiery wrath of the Lord.    Ref: REB, CJB.

 

It is now time to realize that this terrible, worldwide disaster is soon to happen.

In no way has this prophecy been fulfilled yet and this cannot be at the Return, as it must be before that: He thunders from His holy place…. He sends down fire…  Amos 1 & 2:1-5, Psalms 18:13, Psalms 11:4-6, Revelation 6:12-17 and Revelation 14:17-20

 

Many other prophesies vividly describe this sudden and shocking, Day of the Lord’s wrath, a one day event: as fire from the sky, a Coronal Mass Ejection sun explosion, that will literally fulfill all of them.  Psalms 83 tells how fire and tempest will destroy those attackers of Israel and details like ‘the sky rolled up like a scroll’, and the ‘moon blood red’, are also literal effects of a massive earth directed C M E.

Isaiah 30:26-30, Isaiah 66:14-16, 2 Peter 3:7

The millions killed on that Day won’t be buried because there won’t be enough  survivors to do that and the extreme heat of a CME and the fires caused by it, will reduce the dead to ashes. Malachi 4:3, Jeremiah 9:22

Those who have led the people astray with their false teachings, fictional books and poor leadership will be judged and punished on that Day. Micah 3:1-4, Isaiah 56:10-12

 

The world as we know it now, will not continue for much longer, prophecy is given to us as a warning of what will happen and for us to be Spiritually and physically prepared, so we can stay strong and keep trusting in the Lord to keep us safe, because He plans for the good of His own faithful Christian people. Jeremiah 29:11, Psalms 37:29

As all the faithful Christians gather and settle into all of the holy Land. Romans 9:24-26.....in the very place, [that ancient Israel was rejected] you Christians will be called the children of the Living God. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35

 Colossians 1:11-12 In His glorious might may He give you ample strength to meet with fortitude and patience whatever comes and to give joyful thanks to the Father who has made you fit to share in the heritage of God’s people, in His Kingdom of Light.  

The King will come later; for the Millennium. Revelation 19:11

[Keras]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:46 AM, AdHoc said:

Thank you for your reply. I can see where you are coming from.

Yes; I come from, that is: I promote the Prophetic Word.

The sun – our life sustainer, emits a continuous stream of heat in the form of charged particles, otherwise known as the solar wind. The sun is actually a pulsating star and this creates a variable energy output. This variation in energy has not been so great as to cause serious problems on earth, although ice ages and heat waves have been felt in the past.

Because the sun, and all the solar system rotates around its center of gravity every 11.1 years, this spin orbit coupling means that the solar plasma [liquid surface] circulates with it, producing an 11.1 year solar cycle. Due to planetary pull at alignments plus an acceleration and deceleration process, there is a time of increased solar flare activity, now, in 2013/14, numbered as Solar cycle 24. In the past this has been evidenced by aurora displays, and research indicates slightly warmer temperatures are due to solar flares. Because, in the lead up to Solar Cycle 24, there have been very few flares, we have experienced exceptionally cold winters over the past few years.

In September of 1859, the entire earth was engulfed in a cloud of super charged gas and a brilliant aurora erupted from the poles to the tropics. Around the world, telegraph systems failed, switch gear burst into flames and operators wereshocked. Compasses and other instruments reeled as if struck by a massive magnetic fist. Another, much smaller CME, struck Quebec in 1989, damaging their electricity grid.

All satellite operators are ready to shut down their services as soon as a CME is reported, as are communications, airlines, electricity suppliers, etc, in the hope of saving their equipment. [and staff!!!]

Sunspots, recorded up to 37,000 km in diameter, appear as dark spots on the surface of the sun. There is a strong magnetic field within each sunspot and they flare out in conjunction with another sunspot, so the ejection has North/ South polarity. In other words it is a mass with a magnetic field, the same as our planet. In conjunction with increased magnetic activity, more ultra violet energy is emitted, therefore the sun shines brighter and hotter.                                                 Reference; various sources

 

As we read in Isaiah 30:26-28 ...the Lord Himself comes from afar, His anger blazing and His doom heavy, His tongue a devouring fire. He sieves out the nations for destruction. The sun will shine with seven times its normal brightness, on the Day the Lord heals His people. Malachi 4:1

This description, along with many other prophecies, can only be explained literally by a CME. In no way does it fit the judgement on the armies of the Anti Christ that Jesus destroys by the sword of His Word, at the Return.

This enormous solar flare will be something ‘the like has never been known, nor will be in the ages to come’  Joel 2:2.

Jeremiah 51:52-57 A time is coming when I shall punish the idols and godless peoples of Babylon [a metaphor for all peoples who deny God]  Sounds of great destruction come from their land, the advancing wave booms and roars, like mighty waters. For the Lord, a God of retribution, will repay in full.  Jeremiah 25:30-33,

            Isaiah 5:24-30, Isaiah 24:19-20, 2 Peter 3:7        

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, Keras said:

This description, along with many other prophecies, can only be explained literally by a CME. In no way does it fit the judgement on the armies of the Anti Christ that Jesus destroys by the sword of His Word, at the Return.

It is my considered opinion that the judgments of Isaiah 30, Joel 2 and Malachi 4 are restricted to Israel. That makes a CME that has universal effect very unlikely as it would encompass the whole earth. Since Christian, Jew and Gentile stand shoulder to shoulder in everyday life, such an event would destroy all. The second half of Isaiah 30 particularly predicts blessing from the rain and sun - not judgment.

Jehovah is Creator, Sustainer and Controller of the universe. He does not need the sun to cause fire among men. He may use earthquakes, tsunamis  etc., to effect His LOCAL divine judgment, but if they are literal then Christians will die alongside the wicked - unless of course you favor a pre-CME rapture.

Then, there is the burning question that if the universal CME is pre-Armageddon, who will make up the armies of the Beast for that great battle? Shall not the wicked have been judged and all be incinerated?

Much more is the opposite. The time leading up to the catastrophe, that overtakes mankind and the earth, will be a time of SAFETY (1st Thess.5:3).

[Keras]

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

It is my considered opinion that the judgments of Isaiah 30, Joel 2 and Malachi 4 are restricted to Israel. That makes a CME that has universal effect very unlikely as it would encompass the whole earth.

Agreed; those punishments are focused on the holy Land area, but a devastation of all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, would have worldwide effects.  Also as the earth rotates, every nation will get some of the strike, then it carries on into outer space. 

Most people will survive this disaster, we will see it coming and take shelter; hide in caves or subways, etc.   A One World Govt will be established by the secular peoples. Christians will form their own nation and elect their own leader. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

His LOCAL divine judgment, but if they are literal then Christians will die alongside the wicked - unless of course you favor a pre-CME rapture.

Read: Ezekiel 21:1-7.....I will destroy the righteous and the wicked alike......

I reject any rapture to heaven.  When Jesus Returns, those faithful people who remain, will be transported thru the clouds to where Jesus is. That is: Jerusalem.  Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Thess 4:17

[AdHoc]

14 hours ago, Keras said:

Agreed; those punishments are focused on the holy Land area, but a devastation of all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, would have worldwide effects.  Also as the earth rotates, every nation will get some of the strike, then it carries on into outer space. 

Most people will survive this disaster, we will see it coming and take shelter; hide in caves or subways, etc.   A One World Govt will be established by the secular peoples. Christians will form their own nation and elect their own leader. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

Read: Ezekiel 21:1-7.....I will destroy the righteous and the wicked alike......

I reject any rapture to heaven.  When Jesus Returns, those faithful people who remain, will be transported thru the clouds to where Jesus is. That is: Jerusalem.  Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Thess 4:17

O.K. I thought you said it was a judgment on the wicked on all the earth. If many survive then it can't be as bad a I gathered from your first postings. But that's just detail. What really made me think is that despite our Lord's great sacrifice, it is unable to save the just and the faithful so that they die with the wicked. Wow!

As regards a rapture, the wording is "TO" the (i) air and "TO" the clouds - not "thru". Since Enoch, rapture is a fact of the Bible. The details may be disputed but the word "harpazo" is there - literally "caught away", as Philip would testify of (Act.8). The Greek indicates movement but not direction. It is also a first for me to meet a Bible student who outright refuses that Christ was raptured. What do the words, "was taken up" mean to you? And if not raptured, how then did He reach the highest heavens to seat Himself on the Father's Throne? He must still be on earth if there is no rapture.

I had a look at Ezekiel 21. In verse 3 your rendering is "destroy". Mine is "cut off". The Hebrew word means "to sever". And that is what happened. Daniel and co were righteous, but were "severed" from the Land and deported, with the wicked, to Babylon. But "destroyed" ...? Don't you think the translators might have made a mistake?

[Keras]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

despite our Lord's great sacrifice, it is unable to save the just and the faithful so that they die with the wicked. Wow!

Millions of the righteous faithful have died, that is: been martyred for their faith. It started with Stephen. Acts 7:59-60 and continues today.  It is our test of faith and trust in God. 1 Peter 4:12

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

As regards a rapture, the wording is "TO" the (i) air and "TO" the clouds - not "thru"

So ; where do we go from there?  It has to be to another location on earth. Proved by Revelation 5:9-10

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Since Enoch, rapture is a fact of the Bible.

Enoch and Elijah were special cases, we Christians now do not come even close to them, in faith or callings. 

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I had a look at Ezekiel 21. In verse 3 your rendering is "destroy". Mine is "cut off". The Hebrew word means "to sever"

Ezekiel 21:4 Say to the Land; The Lord says: I am against you. I shall draw My Sword and make away with both righteous and wicked among you.    'make away', to destroy, to kill.  Anyway; to 'sever' anyone from God, is to spiritually destroy them. 

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

All life on the surface of the planet and most of it in the oceans will cease to exist very quickly if the sun shines seven times more than it currently shines.

A  CME explosion on the surface of the sun, is a flash - maybe lasting for a few minutes only.  It also will only be seen from the half of the earth facing the sun.   This intense burst of radiation will kill many, but as the Prophesies tell us, only those actually outside will be killed. Jeremiah 6:22-26

What it will do is to cause earthquakes from the microwave penetration of the earth crust, Deuteronomy 32:22, but mainly it will destroy all electrical systems and devices.  Again; only on the side facing the sun when it happens.  Which will be centered on the the Middle East. Zephaniah 2:4

 

[AdHoc]

34 minutes ago, Keras said:

Millions of the righteous faithful have died, that is: been martyred for their faith. It started with Stephen. Acts 7:59-60 and continues today.  It is our test of faith and trust in God. 1 Peter 4:12

Your first argument is a good one. Millions have not been preserved and have been brutally murdered. But this killing spree is because of the "wrath" of MEN. A CME that you predict will be the wrath of GOD. And it is this that we are saved from by Jesus.

 

35 minutes ago, Keras said:

So ; where do we go from there?  It has to be to another location on earth. Proved by Revelation 5:9-10

Agreed. Mt. Olives! 1st Thessalonians 4:14 and Jude 14 say that our returning Lord Jesus comes WITH His saints, and Matthew 24:30 says that it is the clouds from whence he comes. That is, you will be raptured from New Zealand and after the Bema you will descend with Christ to Jerusalem - not to live there, but to fight Armageddon (Rev.19).

 

41 minutes ago, Keras said:

Enoch and Elijah were special cases, we Christians now do not come even close to them, in faith or callings. 

No. Every martyr has paid more than Enoch and Elijah. "No greater love has a man than to lay down his life for his FRIEND" (Jn.15:13)

 

46 minutes ago, Keras said:

Ezekiel 21:4 Say to the Land

The meaning is "to be severed from the Land" - which is needed if they were carried off to Babylon. Daniel and co were not slain. And did not God put a Mark on the righteous so that they would not be killed (Ezek.9:4-5)?