First Resurrection, is it of Time Place or Rank?

[DeighAnn]

30 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

What it IS saying is that the saints are being rewarded at the 7th Trumpet...not at the time each saint died...ALL the saints were rewarded at the 7th Trumpet...notice it did not say 'But Each saint and prophet and those that feared his name had already been rewarded before the 7th trumpet sounded..." NO. That is what you were saying...the scripture does not say that..it says at the 7th Trumpet the saints were rewarded, which means they WERE NOT rewarded before the 7th Trumpet...Why would he say at this time they were rewarded if they had already been rewarded before...? That is non sense.

How does of that  fit with these ?

John 13:29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.

John 13:30 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.

John 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

John 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

WAS THE LORD LYING TO PETER saying PETER 'WOULD BE WHERE HE WAS',  

WHEN the REALITY of what you put forth is CHRIST WENT TO HEAVEN, 
AND PETER STAYED IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH.  

DID PETER GO TO BE WITH HIM OR DID PETER DIE AND WILL REMAIN DEAD UNTIL CHRIST RETURNS?

DID GOD GIVE PETERS 'SEED' A BODY OR DIDN'T HE?

WAS PETERS BODY RAISED UP IN GLORY OR WASN'T IT?

 

[DeighAnn]

41 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

2) The second death, tormented day and night forever

IS GOD A CONSUMING FIRE?  OR NOT

2654. katanaliskó ►

Strong's Concordance katanaliskó: to use up Original Word: καταναλίσκω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: katanaliskó Phonetic Spelling: (kat-an-al-is'-ko) Definition: to use up Usage: I use up, spend, consume (as with fire). HELPS Word-studies 2654 katanalískō (from 2596 /katá, "down, according to," intensifying 355 /analískō, "consume") – properly, consume all the way ("up to down"), i.e. exactly (decisively, conclusively). 2654 (katanalískō) means "to consume utterly, wholly (kata, intensive)" (Vine, Unger, White, NT, 125) and only occurs in Heb 12:29.

[DeighAnn]

45 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

We will all be changed in a moment, in a twinkle of an eye...at the last trump...You do not get a glorified body at the time you die, you will get it at the resurrection.

What you say and what are written are 2 different things.  

1 Corinth 15:34  Sober up righteously and not sin,  ignorance for of God some have to [the] shame of you I speak

35  But will say someone How are raised the dead With what then body do they come

 2064. erchomai ►
Strong's Concordance
erchomai: to come, go
Original Word: ἔρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: erchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-khom-ahee)
Definition: to come, go
Usage: I come, go.

36  Fool you What you sow not does come to life if not it dies
37  And what you sow NOT THE BODY THAT WILL BE you sow
but a bare grain
if it may be of wheat
or of some of the rest
But God gives it a body as He has willed
and to each of the seeds its own body

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth
and believeth in Me,
shall never die. 
never  
3756. ou, ouk, ouch ►
Strong's Concordance
ou, ouk, ouch: not, no
Original Word: οὐ
Part of Speech: Particle, Negative
Transliteration: ou, ouk, ouch
Phonetic Spelling: (oo)
Definition: not, no
Usage: no, not.
HELPS Word-studies
3756 ou – no ("not"). 3756 (ou) objectively negates a statement, "ruling it out as fact."
[3756 (ou) is written ouk before smooth breathings and oux before a rough breathing.]

nay, neither, never, no
Also (before a vowel) ouk (ook), and (before an aspirate) ouch (ookh) a primary word; the absolute negative (compare me) adverb; no or not -- + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, (can-)not, + nothing, + special, un(-worthy), when, + without, + yet but.


Believest thou this?

IF YOU NEVER DIE, it is impossible to be dead.   
This is what needs to be explained. 
And, if it  CAN'T BE  EXPLAINED
then everything that follows that premise is incorrect 

These are the words of JESUS HIMSELF 
'YOU NEVER DIE' 
Yet somehow, many many people have changed that, to say, they are being raised up with the DEAD. 
How can you be found dead, when the LORD JESUS CHRIST TELLS YOU, you never die?  If you don't believe that,  then what is all this about?
I have to keep asking the question 

Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest Him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst Him with glory and honour, and didst set Him over the works of Thy hands:

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under His feet. For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under Him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 2:11 For both He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
 

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

2 Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Thank you for the polite response and thank you for giving some of the reasons for your statements. 

I appreciate that more than a lot of other things.

What I need to do is to look into your second paragraph that is about Jesus Christ just right after his resurrection and the comments that followed.  

There is one more thing, in my previous post I have stressed the point that we will mantain our original image of how we will looked like with our New Body from the Lord after we die and while our earthly body is still decaying or they have collected the ashes of it in a jar or while is still devoured by some wild beast.

We will already have our glorious NEW BODY from the Lord and we will bore the image of our earthly looks and be recognized and recognized others having our memories. We do not loose our identities. We are not given a new soul, like being someone we were never before.  only we are given the NEW BODY, which it does have the image of the old but not n the stage when we died.

We die sick and deformed, whether born that way or not but that stage of being, those looked are not carried are printed into the NEW BODY.

But rather a complete and healthy look, that makes someone look a lot younger than the way one looked when he died.

We do not need our earthly brains, our memories are in our soul never lost. We will know who we are and how we look like and we can recognize others, our identities are not lost without the old body, which is being decay for a polite word, and us in our NEW BODY a gift from the Lord.

Yes.  I agree. 

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I'll tell you what I told someone else

Take that dead plant along with the seed it produced and put it in the ground. 

Speed the process up to the twinkling of an eye.  

THE SEED becomes a NEW plant, the old dead plant stays dead decays decomposes, and goes back to the dust of the earth  IT NEVER  RISES UP AGAIN

That's the nature of the fallen world. It's a whole different dynamic at the Coming of Jesus. Everything changes. 

Before the Fall there was no death or decay, and this world is going back to that, some aspects sooner than others.

For instance, when Paul says we are all changed to incorruptible immortality.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

That's the nature of the fallen world. It's a whole different dynamic at the Coming of Jesus. Everything changes. 

Before the Fall there was no death or decay, and this world is going back to that, some aspects sooner than others.

For instance, when Paul says we are all changed to incorruptible immortality.

And it was written in the stars!!!

[Selah7]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

IF YOU NEVER DIE, it is impossible to be dead.   
This is what needs to be explained. 
And, if it  CAN'T BE  EXPLAINED
then everything that follows that premise is incorrect 

These are the words of JESUS HIMSELF 
'YOU NEVER DIE' 
Yet somehow, many many people have changed that, to say, they are being raised up with the DEAD. 
How can you be found dead, when the LORD JESUS CHRIST TELLS YOU, you never die?  If you don't believe that,  then what is all this about?
I have to keep asking the question 

Hiya, D.

Remember that the "dead" are the "spiritually dead.”

The change discussed in 1 Corinthians 15:52 from the flesh body to the new spiritual or incorruptible body does not affect the condition of the soul. If you were lost before, you still will be lost, and if you have received Jesus Christ and are under His shed blood, you will be in that same spiritual condition.

The phrase "mortal must put on immortality" refers only to the soul, as all flesh will perish when one dies physically or when the seventh trumpet sounds. So immortality only applies to the soul body, and even in the incorruptible body, death of that mortal soul is still possible if that soul has not received eternal life. In the Millennium, only those souls who have already been granted eternal life and gone through the First Resurrection—those souls who, while in the flesh, did not worship Satan or take his mark—are awarded immortality. 

So, whether or not we have been granted immortality at His return, we must throw off our flesh body before putting on our incorruptible body that will not decay or age throughout the Millennium.  The term "mortal" refers to a soul which is still liable to die the second death.  “This mortal must put on immortality" implies that the soul that is still mortal must also put on immortality. (therefore, the Millennium is so needful ….which is for another study)

Selah.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Selah7

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How can you be found dead, when the LORD JESUS CHRIST TELLS YOU, you never die?  If you don't believe that,  then what is all this about?
I have to keep asking the question 

Then what about the Apostles? Jesus Himself? They died. You can't say they didn't die cause they did and it's recorded. Stephen saw heaven opened and then;

"

At this they covered their ears, cried out in a loud voice, and rushed together at him. 58They dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile the witnesses laid their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59While they were stoning him, Stephen appealed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60Falling on his knees, he cried out in a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

koimaó from NG2749: sleep, fall asleep, die

Original Word: κοιμάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: koimaó from NG2749
Phonetic Spelling: (koy-mah'-o)
Definition: sleep, fall asleep, die
Usage: I fall asleep, am asleep, sometimes of the sleep of death.

The sleep of death obviously as he was stoned to death.

And that's it. Nothing else is said. These are the facts.

 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Hiya, D.

Remember that the "dead" are the "spiritually dead.”

The change discussed in 1 Corinthians 15:52 from the flesh body to the new spiritual or incorruptible body does not affect the condition of the soul. If you were lost before, you still will be lost, and if you have received Jesus Christ and are under His shed blood, you will be in that same spiritual condition.

The phrase "mortal must put on immortality" refers only to the soul, as all flesh will perish when one dies physically or when the seventh trumpet sounds. So immortality only applies to the soul body, and even in the incorruptible body, death of that mortal soul is still possible if that soul has not received eternal life. In the Millennium, only those souls who have already been granted eternal life and gone through the First Resurrection—those souls who, while in the flesh, did not worship Satan or take his mark—are awarded immortality. 

So, whether or not we have been granted immortality at His return, we must throw off our flesh body before putting on our incorruptible body that will not decay or age throughout the Millennium.  The term "mortal" refers to a soul which is still liable to die the second death.  “This mortal must put on immortality" implies that the soul that is still mortal must also put on immortality. (therefore, the Millennium is so needful ….which is for another study)

Selah.

 

Good morning Selah!
You have me a little nervous and wondering if I have written something that leads you to believe I believe that.  Have I?   I have tried really hard to be clear,  and now I am thinking I have not been at all.  Is there something you think I should go back and correct?  Hopefully this will set straight what I am TRYING to show to be written.  

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


I believe 'the dead' who are raised CONSIST OF  the UNSAVED and remain mortal (SPIRITUALLY DEAD)  BUT ARE RASIED UP IN IMPERISHABLE BODIES, (bodies and souls that can STILL can die in the lake of fire)

These are ONLY a 'part' of the dead,  but not all of them, they are the 'dead' who will STAND in Judgment.   

before

THE OTHER PART of 'the dead' will be DELIVERED UP BY the sea, hell and death  AFTER that.  This other part of the REST OF THE DEAD and they are NOT a part of the resurrection of the just and the unjust.  

 
My belief in order of events 

1.  Everyone who died OT went into the dust of the ground (except those found in faith)

2.  Christ's death and resurrection ended OT,  brought in NT,  at which time
He descended and preached to those 'in the dust of the earth',
and all who 'BELIEVED HIM  became SPIRITUALLY ALIVE' were raised up in glorified bodies and went to heaven. 

Those who didn't, remained in the dust of the earth

3.  Since that day, every soul who has lived and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ  HAS RISEN when their 'silver cord parted'.  They have risen in glory, in their spiritual body,  immortal. 

I believe that to be the best definition of what a FIRST RESURRECTION is.  

4.  When Christ returns 2nd Advent,  there will be the resurrection of the just and the unjust.  The alive and remaining who ARE CHANGED are of the First Resurrection, having believed while they lived and so NEVER DIE.  

ALSO at the 2nd Advent,  SOME OF 'the dead' will be raised up, (just and unjust)

and

SOME OF  'the dead' WILL NOT be raised up  (to be delivered up at the end). 


OF THOSE RAISED UP IN THE BEGINNING  -   WHEN THE END COMES WILL BE

a  those who when they STAND in judgment at the GWTJ are found in the book of life and so THEIR resurrection 1000 years ago will turn out to be a 'resurrection of the just' 

b.  those who when they STAND in judgment at the GWTJ will NOT be found in the book of life and THEIR resurrection  will turn out to be a resurrection to damnation


Leaving the DEAD who weren't raised at His return 

THE REST of the 'spiritually dead', dead in the dust who will be DELIVERED UP for judgment from the sea, death and hell.  
 

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (OVER THE PAST 1000 YEARS)


AND THEN THE DEAD 'WHO WEREN'T RAISED' AT THE JUST AND UNJUST RESURRECTION AT THE BEGINNING OF THE LORDS DAY

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

John 21:9
This now He said signifying by what death he will glorify God.  And this having said He says to him, Follow Me.  

2  Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2  Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
 

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Then what about the Apostles? Jesus Himself? They died. You can't say they didn't die cause they did and it's recorded. Stephen saw heaven opened and then;

"

At this they covered their ears, cried out in a loud voice, and rushed together at him. 58They dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile the witnesses laid their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59While they were stoning him, Stephen appealed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60Falling on his knees, he cried out in a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

koimaó from NG2749: sleep, fall asleep, die

Original Word: κοιμάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: koimaó from NG2749
Phonetic Spelling: (koy-mah'-o)
Definition: sleep, fall asleep, die
Usage: I fall asleep, am asleep, sometimes of the sleep of death.

The sleep of death obviously as he was stoned to death.

And that's it. Nothing else is said. These are the facts.

 

You make others think again and again.

Yes Jesus said more than ones that he is the eternal Life and the resurrection. 

And he said: if you have me you have the Life and the resurrection.  

Jesus said those things and others such as "I am the Light" and or I am the Light of the World.

I am the bread of Life, I am the mana who came down from Heaven. 

I am the spring of the water of Life. 

Jesus said I am about to shed the blood of the New Covenant the forgiveness of sins in my blood. 

And from now on you will celebrate the Passover in a different way, and that's what happened. 

That weekend Jesus died on the Cross, the Lamb of God shed the blood for the forgiveness of sins of many.

(Jesus died for the whole world, but not everyone will believe)

And this is what happened after the resurrection of  Jesus the disciples believed and from that time on they celebrated this event in a deferent way.

They celebrate the death of the Lamb of God and his resurrection and the forgiveness of their sins in his blood. 

Jesus knew that he will die, he said that he must die, that the Father is telling him in the Garden of Gethsemane that the time has come for him to die, that there is no other way the Lamb of God must die must shed the blood and die to deal the New Covenant. 

And Jesus also said to his disciples I cannot take you with me where I am going talking about him going to the Heavenly Father, on Peter's request to take them with him.

Jesus said you will follow me there but you must die first.

Jesus ascended into Heaven and sited on the Throne on the right of the Father taking the place of the Christ the Messiah of God after he died and not before, Jesus was glorified after he died and in his body after the resurrection. 

So Peter thinking that he can also go to Heaven to the Heavenly Father while in his body as Jesus was he asked Jesus to take him with him at the time he was going there.

They way Jesus answer to him is as if took a good look at Peter as if he was taking a survey of Peter and pointing that he is in his body as he also was in his body.

But it was not the same Jesus had died and had been resurrection from the dead and he was in his glory the glory of Christ the only one begotten from the Father and Peter was in Jesus Christ and still in his earthly flesh.

Jesus Christ told him you will follow me where I am going to the Father but you must die first and get rid of your earthly body then you come to me. 

Jesus did not say you will follow where I am going after I have change your body, no Jesus did not say that, if he had say that then Peter would have said "what are you waiting for, then change it now", or they would have a discussion about that and how and when it may happen. 

Jesus just said and Peter understood correctly that he must die first and get rid of the earthly and this is he will go to Jesus or follow Jesus where he is.

That's why he did not teach anything else.