First Resurrection, is it of Time Place or Rank?

[Selah7]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The 'they' are the Saints and are those who while living came to faith and believed in Him and so NEVER DIED but as Christ was dead and rose, even so them, and they are returning with Him. They are the saved, those who are of the first resurrection.  

In many areas and ways yes, we do believe the same, here, not so much.   When I read 'never die' 'pass through death' 'sow and raise' for me it is that simple.  I have two bodies one is sown the other is raised.  

You have two bodies.  You never die.  But some how you REMAIN dead to rise up on the last day, while at the same time being 'raised up' but not with a glorified body because that has something to do with returning to earth?   I do not understand  WHY.  It's NOT like you can do works and change your glory.  



If I said, 
 'You will NEVER HAVE no GREY HAIR.  And then said,  in 2 days I am taking all those with GREY HAIR, shopping.

WOULD you get ready to go shopping?


If I told you YOU WILL NEVER SLEEP and I told you in two hours I was coming to wake up those who were sleeping

WOULD you think I was coming to wake you up?


Why then I the Lord Jesus Christ told you YOU WILL NEVER DIE

Why would you ever THINK YOU would be found AMONG THE DEAD that rise?

 

You know what happened to people who died UNDER THE LAW?  

They died and were buried and they stayed in the grave ALL THE WAY up until Christ rose from the dead.

Only then were the GRAVES  opened and they rose up to heaven.  



How do you get 'elders' sitting on thrones in Rev 20:4?  I am very tired and going to sleep and will revisit in the morning.. D 

 

Good morning, D.  I made a mistake regarding Revelation 20:4.  I was thinking of Revelation 4:4.  I’ll look it up now: 

Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Millions of Christian brothers and sisters have given their lives for the witness of Jesus Christ, and there are those who will never bow a knee to the Antichrist, take his mark or worship him. 

Yes, we have two bodies.  When we die, we’re done with the flesh body and our spiritual body returns to the Father:

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 “Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”

Selah.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Selah7

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's not that I don't understand. But when you say this, "no delay between death and resurrection" it throws a huge curve. This is tantamount to saying no one dies. No delay? And where is this idea of no delay in scripture? Scripture avoids things like time unless we read of specific durations. I have  seen a specific duration for a body to repose in the grave in Rev 20. 

This is tantamount to saying no one dies. Which would be a really big problem IF I WAS the one saying it.    

Are you living right now?

Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ right now?  


John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die.



Believest thou this?

Edited April 11, 2022 by DeighAnn

[transmogrified]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

No delay? And where is this idea of no delay in scripture?

The answer is that we are all changed at the last trump...the last trump is still future, but people have been dying since Adam...so of course they are all waiting the resurrection...the contrary idea is that everybody gets changed at death...this is false doctrine and not scriptural

"If  a man die will he live again...? all the days of my appointed time will I wait till my change comes...' Job 14

The saints are rewarded at the 7th Trump...'it is the time of the dead that they should be judged and thou shouldest give reward to thy servants the prophets, the saints, and them that fear thy name, both small and great..'

This is when the rewards are given out..this is when the change happens, this is after the tribulation and it happens to all his saints collectively at the same time...

I show you a mystery...we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed in a moment in a twinkle of an eye...at the last trump.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Has it happened? I suppose it could have. But if 'no delay' means no time passes then it's instant transformation of the body.

Yes we all know God can do anything, but just because he could have done it differently does not mean he did...he could have made the world in one second but he didn't...

Blessings to you- Gary

[DeighAnn]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

This is tantamount to saying no one dies. Which would be a really big problem IF I WAS the one saying it.    

Are you living right now?

Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ right now?  


John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die.



Believest thou this?

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death;

but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Try and see this FROM MY POINT OF VIEW.  I read AND BELIEVE  I will never die.  THEN I talk to Christians who don't believe it.  NOT BECAUSE IT ISN'T WRITTEN, because it clearly is, 

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Hebrews 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT CHRIST SUCCEEDED?  I DO.  

You know what that means? 



I HAVE ZERO FEAR OF DEATH, I LOOK FORWARD TO IT, AND IF IT comes while IN THE SERVICE OF GOD, I WILL REJOICE ALL THE MORE

 

WHEN I DIE, I don't die, I AM just moving from one house to the other, with the help of the best mover in the whole universe, for real, for sure. 
 

[DeighAnn]

26 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

The answer is that we are all changed at the last trump

But that wouldn't APPLY TO THOSE ALREADY IN HEAVEN

as you seem to think. 


THOSE IN HEAVEN have ALREADY CHANGED.  They changed when their EARTHEN VESSEL BROKE AND THEY WENT BACK TO GOD.  

 

[transmogrified]

On 4/9/2022 at 8:30 PM, DeighAnn said:

WAS THE LORD LYING TO PETER saying PETER 'WOULD BE WHERE HE WAS',  

WHEN the REALITY of what you put forth is CHRIST WENT TO HEAVEN, 
AND PETER STAYED IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH.  

DID PETER GO TO BE WITH HIM OR DID PETER DIE AND WILL REMAIN DEAD UNTIL CHRIST RETURNS?

His spirit returned to God who gave it, so he is with Christ right now...the spirit returns to God, but the body of Peter stayed in the dust of the earth..Peters dust did not go to heaven, Peters spirit went to heaven, the body of Peter returned to the dust from whence it came...the body itself will not be changed until the Last Trump sounds...at the last trump the dust of Peter will be changed into immortality and this changed body will ascend up to heaven at the resurrection...just like you see the bodies of the two witnesses rise up into heaven, so will the bodies of all those who are dead in Christ rise up to heaven...the two witnesses shows their bodies did not ascend up to heaven at the point of death, for people saw them lying in the streets for 3.5 days...at the last trumpet their bodies did ascend up and people saw them go up into heaven..their bodies were in the street, their spirit had returned to God who gave it, at the last trumpet there was a voice that said 'come up hither...' Why did it say for them to come up hither if they already had an immortal body in heaven..?' They would have already been up there..but they weren't so God called them up there and at that point the Spirit of life from God entered them...why did it enter them at that point if they already had their immortal bodies in heaven? Because they did not already have an immortal body in heaven...no one has one until the lat trumpet sounds and we are changed...

[transmogrified]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

But that wouldn't APPLY TO THOSE ALREADY IN HEAVEN

as you seem to think. 

As we can see, and as you have said, the flesh dies, but the spirit returns to God...there are no immortal bodies already in heaven...only the spirits of people returns to God at the point of death...this is the whole error in thinking people get immortal bodies at the time of death...they do not...Paul was shown the mystery and it is no longer a mystery...when he said WE shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed at the last trump there is no other class of saints that would be exempt from this for he said we shall ALL be changed at this specific point in time...so when he said ALL would be changed at that specific point in time...WHO was already in heaven in immortal bodies? All means ALL so there were no others that were changed at some other time

[transmogrified]

13 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

THOSE IN HEAVEN have ALREADY CHANGED.  They changed when their EARTHEN VESSEL BROKE AND THEY WENT BACK TO GOD.

There is no scripture that says when their earthen vessel broke they received immortal bodies...you yourself say the flesh dies and returns to the dust...so the only thing that goes to God is the spirit...and God is in heaven so their spirit returns to God who gave it...but saying their spirit returns to God is not the same as saying 'their bodies returned to God..' their bodies remained here in the dust and no immortal bodies have been given to anyone..

Why would Paul be telling believers they will receive immortality if there were some believers somewhere that had already received immortal bodies? This is entirely foreign to what he is saying...if he said ALL will changed at a specific point in time...THERE ARE NO OTHER SAINTS ANYWHERE ELSE

He is talking to believers...those that died before this time are still waiting for the resurrection...it is straightforward 'Christ was the first fruits...afterward they that are Christs at his coming..' What is he talking about? He is talking about the resurrection, and when those that belong to Christ will be resurrected...they are not resurrected at the point of death...they are resurrected at his coming...which is still future.

 

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

And where is this idea of no delay in scripture?

NEW COVENANT -  this is where the 'no delay' is found

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

1Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

1Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

1Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1Peter 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

1Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


 

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;



1Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

WHAT IT DOESN'T SAY IS 

FOR IF CHRIST RISE NOT, THEN IS NOT CHRIST RAISED

IT SAYS IF THE DEAD,  THE DEAD WHO ARE SLEEPING THE DEAD WHO ARE IN THEIR GRAVES  IF THE DEAD DON'T RISE THEN CHRIST IS NOT RAISED

CHRIST ISN'T RAISED IF THE DEAD DON'T RAISE. 

IF THE DEAD WAIT TO RAISE THEN CHRIST MUST ALSO WAIT TO RAISE.  





 

[DeighAnn]

42 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

His spirit returned to God who gave it, so he is with Christ right now..

26 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

There is no scripture that says when their earthen vessel broke they received immortal bodies...you yourself say the flesh dies and returns to the dust...so the only thing that goes to God is the spirit...and God is in heaven so their spirit returns to God who gave it...but saying their spirit returns to God is not the same as saying 'their bodies returned to God..' their bodies remained here in the dust and no immortal bodies have been given to anyone..

Though A BABE in Christ couldn't understand that meant WITH A BODY until they had read ALL THE WORDS OF GOD and had come upon 

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him,
and to every seed his own body.

THAT TRUTH AS IT IS WRITTEN, once that BABE in Christ read THAT

THEY WOULD NEVER AGAIN QUESTION whether or not THAT MEANT WITH OR WITHOUT A BODY.  

They would then know FOR SURE AND WITHOUT QUESTION, the RETURNING TO GOD WAS WITH A BODY

and they would be on the way to maturity in the words of God.