Original Sin

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

So then, as having the inherited Ability to Sin, means Adam and Eve had the inherited ability to refuse to Sin.

I agree that Adam and Eve were created with the capacity to obey or disobey God. However, I don't see how they could have inherited that capacity from anyone. Instead I would say the capacity Adam and Eve had to obey or disobey God was an inherent, innate, intrinsic element of their make up.

[Alive]

On 5/13/2022 at 5:44 PM, OneLight said:

Let's be honest, the "boogieman" lives in both camps as they are the camps of man.  Whenever you take the focus off scripture and place it on what this person or that person believed and taught, the "boogieman" just awaits for it's chance to leap, and it does.

As I said before, I don't believe either side has the full truth, which will be found when you takes all of scripture into account, not just what backs a theology.  For man, that is a very hard process to learn and stick to due to leaning onto our own understanding.

This is a nice sentiment and attempt at peacemaking.

Nevertheless, it is scripture we discuss. As I have offered before, Calvin had nothing to do with my conclusions studying scripture. The obvious to me evidence did.

Later, reading other folks stuff did help me to further understsnd the debates and reinforce my own conclusions as well as learning some language that frames the debate helpful to some who are familiar with the issue.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot avoid the consistent evidence of election and God choosing first…then once healed, a man can choose.

[Alive]

On 5/13/2022 at 9:30 PM, Michael37 said:

I agree that Adam and Eve were created with the capacity to obey or disobey God. However, I don't see how they could have inherited that capacity from anyone. Instead I would say the capacity Adam and Eve had to obey or disobey God was an inherent, innate, intrinsic element of their make up.

I agree. They were free. Created free from bondage.

Later, they became unfree and decidedly bound. Utterly enslaved.

Free to make all manner of choices in the natural realm in which they were chained, but unable to change that nature by choice Godward.

They became far from Him…thus the need for Grace.

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

Please explain what this means?

Regeneration.

[Alive]

By His stripes we are healed. Christ was all about reversing the fall.

[B-B]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:47 AM, Heaven_Bound said:

And all humans possess that same capacity.   If not, we would have no Free Will and I would be a ROBOT for Christ.

......but.. a major difference between our original parents and us....Adam & Eve were not created dead in trespasses & sins....spiritual 'death' came after the Fall, infecting all of the human race....- Total depravity.

Edited May 15, 2022 by B-B

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

You believe you can choose to be regenerated?

No.

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

Ok, I still don’t understand what you mean..when you said then once healed a man can choose...then you posted ...Regenerated?

once a man is healed?

a man can choose?

choose what?..healed from what?

Regeneration is the healing required.

[OneLight]

5 minutes ago, Alive said:

This is a nice sentiment and attempt at peacemaking.

Nevertheless, it is scripture we discuss. As I have offered before, Calvin had nothing to do with my conclusions studying scripture. The obvious to me evidence did.

Later, reading other folks stuff did help me to further understsnd the debates and reinforce my own conclusions as well as learning some language that frames the debate helpful to some who are familiar with the issue.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot avoid the consistent evidence of election and God choosing first…then once healed, a man can choose.

When we read about the foreknowledge of God in Romans 8. we are left with no explanation as to what He foreknew.  So, what do we do with this?  We see how it fits into the rest of scripture.

I choose to see God from His loving attributes whose desire is for all to not perish but to come to repentance for He sent His Son to die for the sins of the world.  It fits into His "omni" attributes better than thinking He created some to be with Him forever and the rest to be in complete darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, excluded for all that is good.

[Alive]

43 minutes ago, OneLight said:

When we read about the foreknowledge of God in Romans 8. we are left with no explanation as to what He foreknew.  So, what do we do with this?  We see how it fits into the rest of scripture.

I choose to see God from His loving attributes whose desire is for all to not perish but to come to repentance for He sent His Son to die for the sins of the world.  It fits into His "omni" attributes better than thinking He created some to be with Him forever and the rest to be in complete darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, excluded for all that is good.

Yes, I understand your pov. And respect it.

I do think its good to make the point that foreknowledge is a given regardless of how we view election. When we see the words choose in scripture applying to man, that is also a given, because I do not believe He violates our will, but frees us so we can choose…Godward.

Election permeates the record…IMO.

It helps that I am utterly convinced there is no eternal torture, but a perishing after judgement.

God is gracious to allow fallen man to enjoy this life, family, friends, love and this planet while making many natural choices yet while dead in sin. Then just gone.