Resurrection of the Just and the Unjust Happens At The Second Coming

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The rider on the white horse GOES OUT to overcome and conquer. 

WHAT are the instructions ARE THE CHURCHES supposed to be GIVING TO US

to make sure we ENDURE TO THE END and receive the promises?   Do not be deceived by any man, there is one who is coming to OVERCOME and to CONQUER you.  Do not let him, make sure you are the one to OVERCOME and not be overcome by DECePTI0N AND LIES.  

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

Notice the command given to the church about the same time the first seal was opened:  Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Who was and still is the god of "all nations?" It is Satan. Was Satan just going to step aside and allow the church to take over HIS territories and nations? No, Satan would fight tooth and nail, so to speak, to STOP the advance of the church. So the church had to OVERCOME every new territory.

Paul described this battle.

Ephesians 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Seals 2 through 4, the red horse and rider, the black horse and rider and the pale horse and rider are to represent the devil's war in trying to stop the advance of the gospel, trying to keep it within the one fourth of the earth God allowed Satan to try and stop the gospel. God has allowed Satan to use wars, famines, pestilences and wide beasts but limited him in his theater of operations to only one fourth of the earth. Without a doubt that one fourth would be centered on Jerusalem. That might take in Europe (where two world wars have started), the Middle East, and Africa (where countless famines have taken place and where wild beasts eat people).

This warfare, as the church tries to take the gospel to new territory, and where the devil has tried to stop the church, has caused countless martyrs. That is the fifth seal.

See how logical and coherent John wrote?

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

One reason is because
 Rev 6 THE BEGINNING OF A SERIES OF TERRIBLE JUDGMENTS.  

WHY would The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ NEED TO BE GIVEN A CROWN?  

Did Jesus go forth OVERCOMEING and to overcome? or is He sitting at the right hand of God till....? 

You are simply mistaken. "Judgment" does not begin until the 6th seal. There is no judgement against the church taking the gospel to the nations. There is no judgment against Satan trying to stop the church. 

Jesus told Paul concerning these things that "My grace is sufficient." In other words, that "messenger of Satan" had a legal right (since Satan is the god of this world) to try and stop Paul. 

Face the truth! This war will continue until Adam's lease runs out. Then, and only then, will Satan be cast down.

Jesus overcame and made a show openly of defeating the devil. All authority was given to Him so He sent the CHURCH to overcome and take the gospel to the nations. 

Note that this rider (representing the church) has a VICTOR'S crown. They are usually given after a competition has finished and then given ONLY to the winner. In this case God has declared the church the winner from the beginning and given them the victor's crown.

In the end, Satan will be defeated so such a crown does not fit him at all.

Did you notice?

6:10  ...they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

The martyrs are told that judgment is not going to begin until the final martyr of the church age is killed. Notice that the 6th seal start of judgment is the very next thing John wrote.

See how straight forward John wrote?

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Another reason is how I see Rev 6 following Matt 24

Apparently you have notice the parallels.

The red horse was to cause wars, and Jesus said there would be wars and rumors of wars.

The black horse was to cause famines and Jesus mentioned there would be famines.
The pale horse was to cause pestilences and Jesus mentioned there would be pestilences.

Jesus started His end time discourse right at their time, the early church.
John begins his timeline while Christ is under the earth, before He rose from the dead. (The reason why "no man was found.")

Jesus mentioned "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences.." but in the context of "the end is not yet" meaning, He was not YET talking of end times, but rather the church age.

Next, Jesus jumped right into the middle of the 70th week, mentioning the abomination.

JOhn gets to that point in his timeline at the 7th trumpet.

Therefore, Rev. 6 does not "follow" Matthew 24, rather it parallels it. 

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

which makes the 1st WHITE horse and rider OF DECEPTION and CANT BE anyone other than Satan

Notice how John uses the color white 17 times.

Revelation 1:14
His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:4
Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Revelation 4:4
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Revelation 6:2
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Revelation 6:11
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:14
And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Revelation 15:6
And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Revelation 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:14
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 20:11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

What you are insisting is that one time out of 17, God caused John to use white for something evil. Sorry, but I just don't buy that theory. One thing God is is consistent. Therefore I think you are mistaken here.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Notice the command given to the church about the same time the first seal was opened:  Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Who was and still is the god of "all nations?" It is Satan. Was Satan just going to step aside and allow the church to take over HIS territories and nations? No, Satan would fight tooth and nail, so to speak, to STOP the advance of the church. So the church had to OVERCOME every new territory.

Paul described this battle.

Ephesians 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Seals 2 through 4, the red horse and rider, the black horse and rider and the pale horse and rider are to represent the devil's war in trying to stop the advance of the gospel, trying to keep it within the one fourth of the earth God allowed Satan to try and stop the gospel. God has allowed Satan to use wars, famines, pestilences and wide beasts but limited him in his theater of operations to only one fourth of the earth. Without a doubt that one fourth would be centered on Jerusalem. That might take in Europe (where two world wars have started), the Middle East, and Africa (where countless famines have taken place and where wild beasts eat people).

This warfare, as the church tries to take the gospel to new territory, and where the devil has tried to stop the church, has caused countless martyrs. That is the fifth seal.

See how logical and coherent John wrote?

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Notice the command given to the church about the same time the first seal was opened:  Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Who was and still is the god of "all nations?" It is Satan. Was Satan just going to step aside and allow the church to take over HIS territories and nations? No, Satan would fight tooth and nail, so to speak, to STOP the advance of the church. So the church had to OVERCOME every new territory.

Paul described this battle.

Ephesians 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Seals 2 through 4, the red horse and rider, the black horse and rider and the pale horse and rider are to represent the devil's war in trying to stop the advance of the gospel, trying to keep it within the one fourth of the earth God allowed Satan to try and stop the gospel. God has allowed Satan to use wars, famines, pestilences and wide beasts but limited him in his theater of operations to only one fourth of the earth. Without a doubt that one fourth would be centered on Jerusalem. That might take in Europe (where two world wars have started), the Middle East, and Africa (where countless famines have taken place and where wild beasts eat people).

This warfare, as the church tries to take the gospel to new territory, and where the devil has tried to stop the church, has caused countless martyrs. That is the fifth seal.

See how logical and coherent John wrote?

Yes, Jesus sends the church out to preach to the world,  THEN ascends to heaven to open the seal to send the church out?  

No, I don't understand that kind of thinking.  

ALL THE HORSES are about death, and deception, and BAD THINGS  (I understand the word 'judgments' doesn't work for you,  so I will not use it again)  coming upon the world, and so can't understand how you see the white horse and the rider as the church.   I can't make those kinds of leaps, they make no sense to me.  


So,  I do know how logical and coherent John wrote, just not how you interpret it.  

But then again, I don't understand any of the ways Scripture is changed for a pre trib rapture when one is never written of.  WHY that fact doesn't seem to bother those proponents of it is also beyond me. 

 

[Serving]

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is very natural (even for resurrection bodies) for the spirit and soul of a being to be "inside" the physical body of that being. My spirit is me, my soul is me, and my body is me. But my body is only the "house" my spirit and soul are living in.

Yes correct. 

I was pointing out that the "Godhead" in Jesus here :

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Colossians 2:9 
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 .. was actually referring to The Fathers Spirit within Jesus.

He questioned that .. he questioned whether I believed that the Fathers Spirit was in Christ .. so I gave him this :

John 14:10 
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Which led to this example :

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

For in him (Transmogrified) dwells all the fullness of Transmogrified bodily.

What I was saying here was that you wouldn't say "within Transmogrified dwells the fullness of Transmogrified bodily" because what else would be in Transmogrified other than Transmogrified?

You? me? what, only half of Transmogrified dwells in Transmogrified ???

See?

Of course we have Spirit and soul within us, you must have misunderstood where I was coming from and why I was saying it.

Our discussion is jumping around a bit after all, easy to miss the context.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Face the truth! This war will continue until Adam's lease runs out. Then, and only then, will Satan be cast down.

I Face the truth that the war will continue until Christ returns and puts a stop to it.  BUT what if He finds a fire already kindled?  

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Notice the command given to the church about the same time the first seal was opened:  Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Who was and still is the god of "all nations?" It is Satan. Was Satan just going to step aside and allow the church to take over HIS territories and nations? No, Satan would fight tooth and nail, so to speak, to STOP the advance of the church. So the church had to OVERCOME every new territory.

Paul described this battle.

Ephesians 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Seals 2 through 4, the red horse and rider, the black horse and rider and the pale horse and rider are to represent the devil's war in trying to stop the advance of the gospel, trying to keep it within the one fourth of the earth God allowed Satan to try and stop the gospel. God has allowed Satan to use wars, famines, pestilences and wide beasts but limited him in his theater of operations to only one fourth of the earth. Without a doubt that one fourth would be centered on Jerusalem. That might take in Europe (where two world wars have started), the Middle East, and Africa (where countless famines have taken place and where wild beasts eat people).

This warfare, as the church tries to take the gospel to new territory, and where the devil has tried to stop the church, has caused countless martyrs. That is the fifth seal.

See how logical and coherent John wrote?

Why do you think God would want the gospel to QUIT being taken to the world by the body of Christ, before the return of Christ?   Are those last souls on the earth not worth as much as all those that came before?  Were they just born at an unlucky time?  

EXACTLY what verse is it that told you 'the church' was going to be removed from the earth?  And exactly what verse is it that gave you the time of it being before the tribulation?  I think the answers to those two questions alone will really help clear up this whole mess.  

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Therefore, Rev. 6 does not "follow" Matthew 24, rather it parallels it. 

REALLY?   The presentation didn't SCREAM that out to you?  


1 
a : to go or come after or behind (someone or something)
[+ object]
She followed us into the kitchen.
The dog followed the children home.
The exit is right this way. Just follow me.
[no object]
The children went home and the dog followed behind.
If one sheep goes through the gate, the rest will follow.
b [+ object] : to go after or behind (someone) secretly and watch to find out what happens
He hired a private detective to follow his wife everywhere. [=to secretly find out where she went and what she did]
follow a suspect
I think that someone is following us. = I think we're being followed.
2 
a : to come after (something) in time or place or as part of a series
[+ object]
Spring follows winter. = Winter is followed by spring.
The number 15 follows 14.
Her accident was followed by a long period of recovery.
[no object]
First came the student speeches, and the presentation of awards followed.
(formal) The war ended. There followed [=then came; then there was] a long period of rebuilding.
b [+ object] : to have or do something after (something else) — + with
I followed my dinner with a liqueur. [=I had a liqueur after dinner]
The actor followed his success as Othello with a triumph as Macbeth.
3 
a : to happen after and as a result of (something)
[+ object]
Rioting followed the unjust verdict.
[no object]
If you work hard, success will/must surely follow.
b [no object] : to be true or seem to be true because of something
From the evidence given, several conclusions follow. = Several conclusions follow from the evidence given. [=we can make several conclusions based on the evidence given]
— often + that
From the evidence given, it follows that the accused is guilty.
Just because he's done some bad things, does/must it follow that he's a bad person? [=does it mean that he is a bad person?]
4 
[+ object]
a : to be guided by (something)
You should follow [=obey] your conscience.
follow your instincts
follow my advice
[+] more examples
b : to do the same thing as (someone)
She followed her father (by going) into medicine. = She followed her father by becoming a doctor.
5 
[+ object] : to move forward on (a road, a path, etc.)
Follow that path, and you will come to a log cabin.
You should follow the main highway until you see signs for the stadium.
— often used figuratively
His friends all went to college, but he chose to follow a different path. [=to do something different]
Do recessions follow a predictable cycle/pattern?
6 
[+ object] of a road, path, etc. : to be on or next to (something) for a distance
The path follows the river pretty closely.
The road follows the curve of the hill.
7 
[+ object]
a : to keep your eyes or attention on (something)
Follow the bouncing ball.
b : to give close attention to what happens in (something)
He followed her career with interest.
follow football
The book follows his political career from its humble beginnings to his election as president.
c British : to be a fan of (a team) : support
He follows Manchester United.
8 
: to understand the sense or logic of (something or someone)
[+ object]
I found it hard to follow the twists and turns of the movie's complicated plot.
I'm sorry—I don't follow your argument/reasoning. = I'm sorry—I don't follow you. [=I don't understand you]
[no object]
I'm sorry—I don't follow. [=I don't understand]

 

[Serving]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:05 AM, transmogrified said:

On 7/8/2022 at 11:46 PM, Serving said:

That is part of the mystery of the Word of God.

Please refer me to the scripture you are talking about.

It starts here :

1 Timothy 3:16 
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Obviously talking about Jesus .. no mystery there .. but there is a mystery because it says so in that very same verse .. so obviously the mystery is to do with God manifesting in the flesh etc .. 

When working it out for oneself, you start to realise that the mystery eventually leads to being about the Word of God.

What does he mean by Word of God ..

And when you do the hard yards investigating it, you eventually realise that the statement : "Word of God" is not just a title .. no, it's something even deeper and more literal.

So I misspoke by saying, "Mystery of the Word" as though a scripture was actually spoken that way .. I spoke it from what I've called it for just over 10 years now because that is what the rabbit hole leads to when you eventually work it out.

It leads to being about what "Word of God" really means .. and it means something beyond just a mere title .. that is the mystery.

And what it means directly relates to what we are discussing .. I just haven't started harping on that point yet.