Resurrection of the Just and the Unjust Happens At The Second Coming

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

If I can and do,  do you promise to give me more?   because this


Challenge  is  accepted. 

FIRST, I must get rid of that 'in Christ' MEANING,  that seems to hold everyone hostage to some weird 'last day' of the Old Covenant brought forth to the New.   

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

SO BOTH the living and the dead.  

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

GREEK AND INTERLINEAR helps to clarify exactly what is written

a hope having in God which also they themselves await, a resurrection there is about to be of [the] just BOTH and of [the] unjust

BOTH OF THE JUST AND THE UNJUST.  

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?

A REQUIREMENT to be DEAD is to DIE.  

Since BELIEVERS NEVER DIE,

it is impossible to be AMONGST THE DEAD THAT RISE when Christ returns.    


1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 

You have sidestepped the real issue and written non sequiturs. 

YOu cannot get rid of "in Christ" because that is what Paul wrote. What does "In Christ" mean?

2 Corinthians 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Paul is telling us that to be "in Christ" we must be born again or our spirit regenerated. Believers in Christ are "in Christ." No one else on this planet is "in Christ" except those who are born again.

If you remember in John 3, Jesus said that if anyone wants to see heaven, they MUST be born again.

Next, Paul specifically wrote "the DEAD in Christ." I think few but you would argue that Paul is identifying those who were born again and they passed through physical death where their heart stopped and their spirit left their body. "They" the real person - the spirit person - never died but only changed addresses from earth to heaven.

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Since BELIEVERS NEVER DIE,

it is impossible to be AMONGST THE DEAD THAT RISE when Christ returns. 

This is simply not truth.  What did Jesus mean here:

"John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE."

Was Jesus saying that no believe would every die PHYSICALLY?  This cannot be the meaning, for billions have died physically over the last 2000 years. No, the meaning is clear: they shall never die SPIRITUALLY. EVERY born again HUMAN will end up dying physically until the rapture/resurrection that will come just before Wrath (NOT when Jesus comes, but just before the start of God's wrath which is found at the 6th seal.)

Quote

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

According to your post, Paul wrote an impossibility. I will believe Paul and not believe what you wrote.

[DeighAnn]

19 hours ago, iamlamad said:

But there will certainly be a resurrection of the OT saints on the last day

That already happened.  
 

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

One of those things was the LAST DAY resurrection.  Theree didn't need to be a last day after that last day because ever since those who slept were raised up it has been every man in his own order.  

 

1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

last day OT SAINTS

1Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Then having people 'left behind' doesn't do God any good, does it?  

It is not God's will that ANY perish or be left behind at the pretrib rapture. But most in the world want nothing to do with God. It is not His will, but what can God do about it? He will not FORCE people against their will. His desire therefore is the WE pray for workers to enter the harvest and get as many as will to enter Christ's kingdom. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Do you still want me to address any of this or did the last post take care of it all?

BUT KNOW you have those who NEVER DIE as DEAD.  That would required NOT BELIEVING  what Christ said.  

Jesus was speaking of spiritual death - they would never die a spiritual death. OF COURSE born again people die physically. There is probably NO ONE  - born again or not - on earth more that 130 years old. Why? Because they DIED!

You are too funny!

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

That already happened.  
 

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

No, sorry, but you did not read this closely. How many is "many?" It could be 24 people. It could be more or less. One thing it is NOT is "all." Many does not mean all.

I suspect at this time God raised only the ELDERS of the Old Testament. I suspect this because John SAW 24 elders.

Besides:

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

There is no possible way you can make the day of Christ's resurrection "the last day." 

"The last day" will come at the 7th vial on the last 24 hours of the 70th week that will end Jewish time. There are "last days" that began while Jesus was alive, but there is a "last day" that ends the Jewish age.

[DeighAnn]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

YOu cannot get rid of "in Christ" because that is what Paul wrote. What does "In Christ" mean?

DEAD IS DEAD.  in CHRIST doesn't make you less dead IF YOU ARE DEAD.

NEVER DIE CAN NOT EVER MEAN DEAD. 
If it were  the ALIVE in Christ being raised,  you MIGHT get me to say OK here, BUT THE DEAD IS YOUR PROBLEM not the IN.


You MAKE THE IN the problem BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET AROUND  'THE NEVER DIE'. 

NEVER DIE. 

NEVER DEAD SO NEVER RAISED  FROM THE DEAD.  

The word IN however has MANY  different meanings.   NEVER DIE doesn't. 
  1722. en ►
Strong's Concordance
en: in, on, at, by, with
Original Word: ἐν
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: en
Phonetic Spelling: (en)
Definition: in, on, at, by, with
Usage: in, on, among.
HELPS Word-studies
1722 en (a preposition) – properly, in (inside, within); (figuratively) "in the realm (sphere) of," as in the condition (state) in which something operates from the inside (within).


And now I am supposed to take 'IN' is in as in the way YOU UNDERSTAND IT,  and not BY as in the sudden destruction as I do?  

First I have to get over what has been brought together being separated. 

Then I have to get over 'the lost sheep of the House of Israel' not being the body of Christ.

Then I have to get over not being fellow citizens.

Then I have to get over God never changing

Then I have to get over God not a respecter of persons

Then I have to get over not picking up my cross and following after Him

Then I have to get over not trying to save my life

Then I have to get over Christ not gathering until after the workings of Satan

Then I have to get to 3 Advents and not two

Then I have to get over....the list goes on and on and on....

And now I am supposed to get over those who never die being dead?  

SERIOUSLY, you think I am not reading what is written?  

[DeighAnn]

6 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

No, sorry, but you did not read this closely. How many is "many?"

THE CAPTIVITY.  The captives.  Are you saying ONLY  the elders were held captive by death?  Isn't that reaching just a tad bit?  If THE CAPTIVITY was led then it was the CAPTIVITY that  I believe without question.   
 

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

NOTICE IT DOESN'T SAY TO SOME OF THE CAPTIVES, NOR DOES IT SAY TO SOME OF THE BOUND.  

Trying to GIVE IT 'a select amount' comes from trying to PROVE THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE DOCTINE.  We can go on and on and all it is going to prove is how much men are willing to CHANGE the words of God TO put forth the doctrines of man.  



 

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

[DeighAnn]

35 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Was Jesus saying that no believe would every die PHYSICALLY?  This cannot be the meaning, for billions have died physically over the last 2000 years. No, the meaning is clear: they shall never die SPIRITUALLY. EVERY born again HUMAN will end up dying physically until the rapture/resurrection that will come just before Wrath (NOT when Jesus comes, but just before the start of God's wrath which is found at the 6th seal.)

I NEVER SAID NO ONE WOULD EVER DIE PHYSICALLY.  HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS DO I HAVE TO SAY THE EARTHEN FLESH DIES.  

What is the difference between dying under the law and under grace?

 

[DeighAnn]

35 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It is not God's will that ANY perish or be left behind at the pretrib rapture. But most in the world want nothing to do with God. It is not His will, but what can God do about it? He will not FORCE people against their will. His desire therefore is the WE pray for workers to enter the harvest and get as many as will to enter Christ's kingdom. 

Then why remove the couple billion who could help those who haven't come to faith if that is His desire?

And GOD HAS NO FEELINGs about 'left behind' because there is no pre trib rapture.  

SO YES, He wants labors and when does the  LABOR END?  LET THEM GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE HARVEST, THEN BURN THE TARES AND GATHER THE WHEAT  

NOT GATHER THE WHEAT AND THEN BURN THE TARES.  

[DeighAnn]

36 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Jesus was speaking of spiritual death - they would never die a spiritual death. OF COURSE born again people die physically. There is probably NO ONE  - born again or not - on earth more that 130 years old. Why? Because they DIED!

You are too funny!

AGAIN, I have never ever ever said the FLESH BODY WOULD NOT DIE.  I have stated it will time and again.  How is it you are all of a sudden going back to this?  THE FLESH DIES  BODY ONE DONE

AND the spiritual body rises LIVING ON in heaven, in the spiritual body MEANS

NO WAY to be IN THE EARTH AWAITING A RESURRECTION WHEN CHRIST RETURNS.  

Twist it as you may try it won't work