Resurrection of the Just and the Unjust Happens At The Second Coming

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Did those who heard these words, believe in Jesus? Did the 120 in the upper room believe in Jesus? You KNOW they did. The very fact that they were all filled with the Spirit and spoke in tongues is proof they were born again.

Yet, they all DIED.

AND YOU believe these that all died ARE STILL DEAD and will be resurrected when Christ returns. Until then, I guess you have 'spirit/soul bodyless'  in one place,  and DEAD CARCASSes,  destined to become the glorious eternal spiritual body with the DEAD,  in hell.  AGAIN I AM GUESSING here,  but either way ETERNAL PARTS OF the living are amongst the DEAD and come out from the dead at some point to come to life. 

That is what you believe you are saying.

But here is ANOTHER factor that seems you have not taken into account.  The dead that are raised up when Christ returns AREN'T JUDGED FOR 1000 YEARS.  

So we know NONE of the DEAD that rise will be ruling and reigning with Christ during that time.  

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 GOD, makes sure we know THEY were raised up previously by telling us about those who will be raised up at that time.  

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

SO WE KNOW some DEAD were raised up when Christ returned, BUT not all the dead leaving them as the only DEAD who could stand at the GWTJ as there is  no other resurrection spoken of except when Christ returns.  

Is there anything written about 'spirits' returning with Him?  Is there anything written about these spirits being joined to 'resurrected decomp' anywhere?  OR is this just another 'nothing written of it' but believe it when a man tells you its true theory?   I have never read of spirits being reunited with bodies.  I have never read of the dead rising up to be joined with Christ, just the dead rising, just dead rising before the alive and remaining are changed and joined up with Christ in the 'air' to begin the Lords Day.  


ME, I believe 
that all Christians beginning way back with PETER AND PAUL AND JOHN etc. were RAISED UP AT THE TIME OF THEIR DEATH (death of their flesh bodies)  IN THEIR SPIRITUAL BODIES.  I believe it was at that time they stood at the judgment seat of Christ.  I believe they IN THEIR SPIRITAL BODIES will be RETURNING with Christ. 

I don't believe Christ leaves HIS BODY in hell, not for a second.  He has been collecting His body to be with Him, ever since He died and rose and brought in the 'better way'.  I believe the souls under the altar and OF THEM THAT SLEPT and the EVEN SO THEM the EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER will be on horses in His army when He returns and they along with the alive and remaining will sit on the judgment seats for the 1000 years.  


And I believe what is written without the need for any explanation.  
 

John  Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
Believest thou this?
 

... Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake. Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice. Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know....

 

...Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him...


...Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment  Of sin, because they believe not on me  Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more  Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged....

... A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father....

...Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father...

...And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent Me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world....


1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
 

1 Corinthians  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power, it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


2 Corinthians  For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Revelation  And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

NOW, more than anything else you could ever do, you could give me A WALL OF SCRIPTURE ONLY that puts forth your beliefs as I have just done here.  THAT WAY  I COULD HEAR GOD TELLING ME, and not you.  

Personally, I don't believe it can be done.  I actually believe it is IMPOSSIBLE.  BUT WHAT if that is just because I am wrong...

SO, PROVE ME WRONG if indeed I am. 

So, as I have written out my beliefs and then given scripture for everyone of them, PLEASE do the same for me. 

You keep telling me I don't know this or that or what EVERYONE else knows,  so SHOW ME IN GODS WORDS,  please.  Give me a WALL OF SCRIPTURE that spells out your beliefs.  It SHOULD to be MUCH EASIER for you SHOULDN'T IT?  If what I am doing is INCORRECT it should be much harder for me.  


I AM ASKING YOU TO SHOW ME with Scripture ONLY,  just as I have done for you, the TRUTHS you say I am not getting.  

Just cut and paste.  Shouldn't take very long.  I am not even going to respond to  any of your other posts from today

so that this is the only thing I ask of you. 

I am TRULY looking forward to it.  



 

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, transmogrified said:

This is the error in a nutshell...

Paul said we will all be changed at the last trump...what is being put forth here is we will NOT all be changed at the Last Trump, but each person is changed when they die...This is false doctrine...this is directly in contradiction to what Paul taught...

NO, that was not said. 

THE ALIVE and remaining are changed.   That is the MYSTERY.  All being changed isn't a mystery as 

1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

IT started when 'the dead' were made alive and the graves were opened.  Then everyman as he lives and dies aka every man in his own order, then the alive and remaining when He comes, 

So, the rest have ALREADY BEEN CHANGED,  so they don't need to CHANGE again.  



Paul said don't be sad like the heathen because as Jesus died and rose EVEN SO THEM and HE IS BRINGING THEM BACK WITH HIM.  

The ONLY ONES who are changed at the last trump ARE THE ALIVE AND REMAINING because those who have already died have already RISEN and gone to be with the Lord where HE IS.  


We go in one way we are raised in another.  We don't go in one way, have our spirit raise up, then our spirit come back then our spirit join up with the dead and then have the dead raise up to be made alive.  IF YOU CAN FIND THAT WRITTEN, then I will also believe,  but as it stands, THAT ISN'T what is written at all. What is written is very specific.  

 

1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.


There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

AND YOU believe these that all died ARE STILL DEAD and will be resurrected when Christ returns. Until then, I guess you have 'spirit/soul bodyless'  in one place,  and DEAD CARCASSes,  destined to become the glorious eternal spiritual body with the DEAD,  in hell.  AGAIN I AM GUESSING here,  but either way ETERNAL PARTS OF the living are amongst the DEAD and come out from the dead at some point to come to life. 

That is what you believe you are saying.

I am saying what 99.99% of believers believe and say: That the body wears out and quits, and believers (Unbelievers also) die. Their spirit (with the soul) leaves the dead body and is escorted into heaven.

When Jesus will come pretrib for His saints, He will first call up and resurrect all those dead bodies, and change them into resurrection bodies. The spirits of all those dead bodies that Jesus will bring with Him will then join with their new, resurrection body and they will then be complete, Spirit and soul in a body once again. The amazing thing is, it will be THEIR body, looking just like each one looked when they were perhaps 30 years old.

Yes, for all scripture tells us, when the born again spirit and soul leave the dead body, it will then be "body-less" in heaven, but will be able to walk and talk and enjoy heaven. 

For unbelievers, when their flesh body dies, their spirit descends down into hell. They will not be resurrected until after the 1000 years.As John put it, when hell gives up its dead.

Quote

DEAD CARCASSes,  destined to become the glorious eternal spiritual body with the DEAD,  in hell.

Dead bodies are buried on the surface of the earth, and turn back into dust over time. However, God has each piece of dust (whether on the atomic level or subatomic level the bible does not tell us) has a name on it. When Jesus comes, and calls up those dead bodies, each piece of dust that once made up a body will be pulled together and form that body once again. Did you not notice "and the graves were opened...?" (Matthew 27)

This is why Paul wrote, "the dead in Christ" rise first. They died and left their bodies.

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

There is not contradiction on behalf of the poster.

The contradiction if there is one is on behalf of the one who says that the dead know nothing...

The poster shows his disagreement with the statement "the dead knows nothing ", by saying that "it is obvious they knew things". 

And he referred to what Jesus said about the rich and the poor Lazarus and he said that he takes on this matter the words of Jesus because Jesus is the Truth and he speaks the Truth...

This is not a truth statement, God has never made any statements of this kind, to the contrary he has made statements that there is Life after death...

Everytime God spoke about those who have died, he spoke in a likely manner as when he spoke about those who were still alive...

They continue to live after their death, and without their body...do you want the definition of what "the body is", just pinch your self, what you touch is your body...

When this body stops factioning or in other words dies, the real person who lived in this body as long as this body was alive, it does not remain in the dead body and lives the body and continues to live like that...

The real not earthly material person never stops to exist...

And he can be found amongst the other dead people, in the times before Jesus Christ death and resurrection they can be only be found in the place of the dead...

After the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ those who died their expected physical death while believing in Jesus Christ they can be found in their Heavenly Inheritance together where Jesus Christ and the Heavenly Father is.

Those who met their death and are found in their denial that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of their sins...

They die in their sins...this is what Jesus Christ said if someone has refused to believe in him till the last moments just before his death he will be found to be in his sins... the one who has believe in him will be found to be free from his sins...

Just contemplate about to what Jesus Christ said in the paragraph above, and the scripture will be posted...

Then you can understand that Jesus Christ says there is Life after death, some will live with their sins and some will live free of their sins...

And Jesus Christ said that everyone who has died will appear before him, because he is the one who will decide where the person will spent his eternity...

This is made very easy for everyone to figure this out...

When anyone who dies still in his sins, because he has refused to believe in Jesus Christ who died for the forgiveness of his sins...a man who is in his sins and in his denial that Jesus is the Christ the moment he bows down before Jesus Christ the Judge of all right after his death he knows that he has refused to believe in Jesus Christ till the last moments of his earthly life...he already knows that he is appointed a place amongst the unbelievers and not the believers...Jesus who has the authority to Judge him he will be ask that he be taken to the heart of the earth to the place appointed for the unbelievers...

And this can only be done while the unbeliever is without his body, even Jesus Christ to go to the place of the dead in the heart of the earth he had to die first and find himself without his body, it cannot be in any other way...

The peculiar situation is that every unbeliever who bows down before Jesus Christ for his judgment is already a believer in Jesus Christ, everyone that time who did not believe or had refused to believe in Jesus he will believe in him because they can see Jesus in his glory and in role as the Judge of all...but because they believe in him after their death while out of their body it does not count, faith in him before they die counts...

This is why Jesus said "BLESS ARE THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEE HIM AND HAVE BELIEVE "...

Who is the one who says that after the man dies, that's it there is nothing after death, let the words of Jesus Christ judge his statements while he still lives, because after he dies he will find out for himself, any way a man who says those things that their is nothing after death, why this man believes in Jesus Christ, for if he believes in Jesus Christ that he died for the forgiveness of his sins, he must also believe that he will bow down before Jesus Christ to be rewarded for his faith...which is an admission that there is Life after the physical death of anyone..

The believers in Jesus Christ are free of their sins and that's how they will bow down before Jesus Christ after the death of their phycical body, in other words without their Physical body..

And it is well known that they are heirs of Heaven together with Jesus Christ...and nothing can stop that...whether happy of how they lived their earthly lives or shameful of how they lived their earthly lives nothing can stopped them for being rewarded their Heavenly Inheritance. 

Even if someone believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for the forgiveness of his sins is saved, because nothing can separate him from his Heavenly Inheritance not even his misunderstood about many things...this is the power of the Gospel that Jesus Christ saves everyone who believes in him...without prejudice. 

 

 OK, just not today but some day soon, lots to address some of 

what I will be asking to have explained  is WHERE the bare grain THIS BODY produces  when it dies goes and how it 'lives' without a spirit because either the spiritual body LIVES on without a spirit OR the spirit lives on without a body.  DOES THE SPIRITUAL BODY live on IN the decomp of this one?  THAT doesn't seem right on any level.  Even hurts the muscles in my face to think on it they go all scrunchy. 

 

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

Shouldn't that be written 'AND WITHOUT' what body does it come?  We all know the spirit goes...why this doesn't tell us 'the body goes' I have no idea...anyways

 

1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Is the BARE GRAIN the death of this body QUICKENS not quickened until 'later'?  If so wouldn't this also need to be written in a different manner?  
 

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Does God wait to give the seed a body until a later date also?   Again, seems a funny way of getting that point across.  

As you can see, I have questions, I just am not ready to switch gears right at the moment, I don't think my brain is ready, being quite fried at the moment.  So hard to debate  what amounts to no more than imagination with the longest of tentacles supported by millions and thousands of years of stuff I know nothing about.   
 

1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.



So when we are born again, and are made a new creature, that has nothing to do with our bodies and the continuation of life?  Is there somewhere we see spirits without bodies in heaven?  Even the 'souls' under the altar receive robes.  If they didn't have bodies wouldn't that be a bit....confusing...and for no reason at all?  What about being on horses?  falling at feet...

Why would God create 2 bodies and then have us 'without one'?  Why the mansion?  Why the resting place?  All of that goes with 'bodies' not 'spirits'.  Spirits go into others bodies.  IDK.  I can't really think right now.  

 

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

If this house from heaven isn't our spiritual body, what is it?

2 Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

How would a 'spirit' without a body be 'naked'?


Not sure why the context would read like it's always talking about bodies when it isn't but these are just a few of the things I will be asking.  I don't want to  blindside in anyway because  ALL THAT MATTERS is GODS TRUTH.  I am always willing to be corrected and taught and would SO prefer to do so HERE rather than in front of the Lord when all recourse is behind me .  Looking to have that 'refining' process be as short as possible.  It is SOOO easy right now,  you know? I really am very tired for some reason, maybe just the HEAT...  I am taking a break for the rest of the day I think...

Edited July 13, 2022 by DeighAnn
get rid of the UHH.  Grrr.  errrr. 

[DeighAnn]

3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I am saying what 99.99% of believers believe and say: That the body wears out and quits, and believers (Unbelievers also) die. Their spirit (with the soul) leaves the dead body and is escorted into heaven.

When Jesus will come pretrib for His saints, He will first call up and resurrect all those dead bodies, and change them into resurrection bodies. The spirits of all those dead bodies that Jesus will bring with Him will then join with their new, resurrection body and they will then be complete, Spirit and soul in a body once again. The amazing thing is, it will be THEIR body, looking just like each one looked when they were perhaps 30 years old.

Yes, for all scripture tells us, when the born again spirit and soul leave the dead body, it will then be "body-less" in heaven, but will be able to walk and talk and enjoy heaven. 

For unbelievers, when their flesh body dies, their spirit descends down into hell. They will not be resurrected until after the 1000 years.As John put it, when hell gives up its dead.

Dead bodies are buried on the surface of the earth, and turn back into dust over time. However, God has each piece of dust (whether on the atomic level or subatomic level the bible does not tell us) has a name on it. When Jesus comes, and calls up those dead bodies, each piece of dust that once made up a body will be pulled together and form that body once again. Did you not notice "and the graves were opened...?" (Matthew 27)

This is why Paul wrote, "the dead in Christ" rise first. They died and left their bodies.

I was hoping for the SCRIPTURE.  Next post?  Till I see that I don't think we should do anything else

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

But here is ANOTHER factor that seems you have not taken into account.  The dead that are raised up when Christ returns AREN'T JUDGED FOR 1000 YEARS.  

So we know NONE of the DEAD that rise will be ruling and reigning with Christ during that time.  
 

Here is where you missed it. ONLY the dead IN CHRIST are raised when Jesus comes pretrib FOR His saints. (He will come 7 years later WITH His saints.)

They go to heaven and will take part in the "Judgment seat of Christ."

The church will return to earth with Jesus and will certainly reign with Him for the next 1000 years.

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Here is where you missed it. ONLY the dead IN CHRIST are raised when Jesus comes pretrib FOR His saints. (He will come 7 years later WITH His saints.)

They go to heaven and will take part in the "Judgment seat of Christ."

The church will return to earth with Jesus and will certainly reign with Him for the next 1000 years.

Could you put it all in order in just Scripture please?  That is what I need from you.  Unless you CAN NOT do that.  Then just tell me it can't be done.  

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 GOD, makes sure we know THEY were raised up previously by telling us about those who will be raised up at that time.  

 

WHICH dead? These are the unrighteous who spent time in hell and as is written, hell GAVE UP its dead. Born again people won't take part in this judgment, as we will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ. If we wish to come up with a scriptural name for this resurrection, it would be the "Second Death Resurrection."

[DeighAnn]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

WHICH dead? These are the unrighteous who spent time in hell and as is written, hell GAVE UP its dead. Born again people won't take part in this judgment, as we will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ. If we wish to come up with a scriptural name for this resurrection, it would be the "Second Death Resurrection."

Is this a NO on being able to lay out your beliefs in the words of God only?  MAYBE YOU HAVEN'T YET GOTTEN TO THAT POST.  If that is the case I apologize and will wait until I know you have.  AGain, I apologize.  I'll wait.  

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 GOD, makes sure we know THEY were raised up previously by telling us about those who will be raised up at that time.  

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

SO WE KNOW some DEAD were raised up when Christ returned, BUT not all the dead leaving them as the only DEAD who could stand at the GWTJ as there is  no other resurrection spoken of except when Christ returns.  

 

Quote

GOD, makes sure we know THEY were raised up previously by telling us about those who will be raised up at that time.  

Right.  All present will be raised up at the Second Death resurrection just as John shows us. 

Quote

SO WE KNOW some DEAD were raised up when Christ returned

OK, you wrote "some DEAD were raised up when Christ returned...."  WHICH dead? Paul wrote "the dead IN CHRIST." In other words, ONLY BORN AGAIN folks will be raised at Paul's pretrib rapture. 

Right: all the dead NOT raised up at Paul's pretrib rapture will be raised up for the GWTJ.

John did not write it, but Jesus spoke of it. WHEN are the OT saints raised? Do say when Jesus rose, for only some (many) were raised then. Jesus said He would raise them up "on the last day." I take that very literally to mean the last 24 hours of the 70th week. I think we can pinpoint the time in Revelation by that huge earthquake at the 7th vial.