Church Attendance Has Taken a Huge Hit (Across the Board)

[Starise]

27 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

There's much to be learned from the voice of a stranger. Few seize upon it, preferring the comfort of life in an echo chamber where one's views and outlook are validated. 

How the outsider perceives Christians is of inestimable value. I was an outsider and stranger myself at one time, and I haven't forgotten it. There's no doubt this had much to do with a transient lifestyle; I was a foreigner in my own country and after the Lord called me, I remain a stranger to most Christians with whom I share little in common apart from our Lord.

Echo chambers breed insolence.

I believe this is a rabbit hole in and of itself because depending on the attitudes and views of those who we see as strangers can be strongly biased in opposition, not to the people behind the belief, but the belief itself.

Neither do I think we should let what others think knock us from the path we should be on.

It's easy for a non christian to look for and point out the very worst examples of Christians in order to make themselves feel better about rejecting God. I do my best to take my directions from the Lord and NOT to be  overly concerned about what someone else might think that isn't a Christian. If I do everything I can to please God, the other views are all secondary.

I don't really see Worthy as an echo chamber, there is plenty of healthy debate, just like I'm not entirely in agreement with you right now

Edited June 27, 2022 by Starise

[Marathoner]

8 minutes ago, Starise said:

I believe this is a rabbit hole in and of itself because depending on the attitudes and views of those who we see as strangers can be strongly biased in opposition, not to the people behind the belief, but the belief itself.

Neither do I think we should let what others think knock us from the path we should be on.

It's easy for a non christian to look for and point out the very worst examples of Christians in order to make themselves feel better about rejecting God. I do my best to take my directions from the Lord and NOT to be  overly concerned about what someone else might think that isn't a Christian. If I do everything I can to please God, the other views are all secondary.

I don't really see Worthy as an echo chamber, there is plenty of healthy debate, just like I'm not entirely in agreement with you right now

Where did I state that Worthy is an echo chamber? That comes from you, not me. 

The truth nevertheless remains evident, for the Lord said that we will be known by our love for one another (John 13:35). He also said that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves (Mark 12:31) so the scope of His word in the previous sentence is revealed to include everyone, not just those whom we call "brother" and who otherwise meet with our approval.

If we treat our neighbor with disdain and refuse to listen to their voice, how is this love? This is the nature of the echo chamber: when all we hear is a validation of our own opinion from others who meet with our approval our insolence is accordingly magnified, for we only hear and believe that which we wish to hear (a tickling of the ear). 

What? Do any presume that I refer to paying heed to words which deny the Lord? Of course not. But if we are not willing to listen to our neighbor, then how will we know what their needs are; if we are not attentive to the needs of others, then what do we have to offer anyone? 

The name of the Lord is blasphemed on account of the prideful. The truth is uncomfortable for many to bear, so they retreat to that echo chamber for comfort where our neighbor knows nothing because they're outsiders/unbelievers. This gives meaning to the scripture,

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" (Matthew 7:21-23 NASB)

Even Balaam's donkey spoke the truth.  

[Littlelambseativy]

Actually I heard that a recent Pew study..recent is subjective…that says currently only 80% of US citizens polled, believe in a higher power. That would account greatly for the drop in church attendance especially since only 26% believe in the God of the Bible. (Poll c2018)

[Starise]

11 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Where did I state that Worthy is an echo chamber? That comes from you, not me. 

What were you referring to as an echo chamber then?

 

14 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

If we treat our neighbor with disdain and refuse to listen to their voice, how is this love?

Who is doing this? I HAVE seen this coming from non Christians who refuse to listen. Many of them come here but don't last long because they don't like what they hear. Is the gospel offensive? Yes. Apparently you have seen this somewhere from Christians and I am saddened by it.

17 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

What? Do any presume that I refer to paying heed to words which deny the Lord? Of course not. But if we are not willing to listen to our neighbor, then how will we know what their needs are; if we are not attentive to the needs of others, then what do we have to offer anyone? 

 I agree we should be attentive to needs. I think we should realize some people show up to make trouble. The devil will send people into our lives to make trouble. We need to know the difference between a ministry opportunity and a setup. I don't see myself as a spiritual candy man. I see myself as a person who has potential to convey the love of Christ. We are all spiritually destitute without the love of God, so none of us has anything to offer other than Christ.

25 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

The name of the Lord is blasphemed on account of the prideful. The truth is uncomfortable for many to bear, so they retreat to that echo chamber for comfort where our neighbor knows nothing because they're outsiders/unbelievers. This gives meaning to the scripture,

I see the prideful largely as the unsaved religious crowd. Who do you see them as? Us? Haven't we all been guilty of pride at one time or another, yet pride isn't in our lifestyle. The believer confesses those sins when he or she sees them. There are religious 'comfort zones' for people who don't want to hear the truth. Maybe these are your echo chambers?

[JohnD]

On 6/26/2022 at 2:08 AM, Slibhin said:

I'll probably be sorry I asked, but what is "the rapture"?

I hope you're still here.

The rapture, put another way is Passover (the passing over of the death angel).

The rapture is the ark of Noah (sparing 8 lives in the global deluge).

The rapture is the parting of the Red Sea (so the children of Israel could pass through on dry ground).

In light of all these past raptures / deliverances it does not sound so far fetched that HaShem will again

gather His people / deliver them from the wrath He is about to inflict upon the Earth in the last days.

Most disagree as to when this event will take place (since most subscribe to human interpretations and

traditions).

But when the 70th Week of years (Daniel 9:24-27) is properly interpreted as two 3.5 year tribulations (rather than

the traditional single 7 year tribulation) then the Biblical imagery is in proper focus.

I am reminded of the lenses used to see the invisible treasure map in the movie National Treasure.

 

[JohnD]

On 6/26/2022 at 6:50 PM, Slibhin said:

I didn't pick this place at random. My husband had an account here.

I'm trying hard to restrain myself from asking where stuff in this thread is coming from, I.e. "second coming", because I'll just end up going down a thread derailing rabbit hole.

I'm probably going to move on once I've had my fill. I'm not that interesting and I have little in common with anyone here. Thanks though.

The common thread you actually do have with us is your late husband.

I sense you are curious as to why he believed what he believed.

And I have hoped that you were open to the possibility of considering what

he believed as something you might believe for yourself.

The second coming, rapture, etc. are important but not as important as the fact

that Yeshua Jesus is the promised Jewish Messiah.

It has been goyed up over the millennia because the chosen stewards rejected

him... but the essential doctrines and truth are steadfast. And this is what your

beloved husband believed in.  And the scriptures (Tanakh) bear this out.

[JohnD]

8 hours ago, Slibhin said:

I know exactly why he believed as he did. We knew each other since second year (grade 8) and were married over 6. You think we didn't know one another completely?

He didn't use some of the terms I see here i.e. second coming and rapture.

I still don't know what a rapture is exactly and someone tried to explain it. I assume this is specific to some Christians because he never mentioned it.

I didn't choose this place at random, he had an account here.

Few here seem interested in me, (which is okay) and I don't know what else I have to offer.

 

Sorry for the derail OP.

I just wanted to say (and I guess I was not clear enough) that I am glad you are here.

[Fidei Defensor]

Part of the problem is most churches follow The Reformation method of centering around the sermon, which allows one teacher to participate, making all congregants spectators, when we are all meant to be participators:

“Orderly Worship

[26] What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. [27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. [28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. [29] Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. [30] If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. [31] For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, [32] and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. [33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints..” (1 Corinthians 14:26-33)

The reason people are falling for eastern beliefs is Yoga and etc [which I pissapeove of] lets people participate, while Church save for worship is passive. We gotta start letting all the saints in Church participate per 1 Corinthians 14! 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Fidei Defensor

[Starise]

15 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Part of the problem is most churches follow The Reformation method of centering around the sermon, which allows one teacher to participate, making all congregants spectators, when we are all meant to be participators:

“Orderly Worship

[26] What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. [27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. [28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. [29] Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. [30] If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. [31] For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, [32] and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. [33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints..” (1 Corinthians 14:26-33)

The reason people are falling for eastern beliefs is Yoga and etc [which I pissapeove of] lets people participate, while Church save for worship is passive. We gotta start letting all the saints in Church participate per 1 Corinthians 14! 

I have lately been checking my own attitudes on why I feel so what " throttled" in my present church. Even in worship I am only allowed to play certain music or play a certain instrument. In any Sunday School class or sermon one man presides and it is almost always the same handful of men. I had to ask myself, Is it God choosing what is to be done using these men, or is it these men doing the choosing apart from God? 

My feeling is that I feel throttled. Like I can't open up in worship. I can play keys but I can't sing and I can only play them the way they want me to play them, and only under a certain leader and only every three months.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Starise

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

I have lately been checking my own attitudes on why I feel so what " throttled" in my present church. Even in worship I am only allowed to play certain music or play a certain instrument. In any Sunday School class or sermon one man presides and it is almost always the same handful of men. I had to ask myself, Is it God choosing what is to be done using these men, or is it these men doing the choosing apart from God? 

My feeling is that I feel throttled. Like I can't open up in worship. I can play keys but I can't sing and I can only play them the way they want me to play them, and only under a certain leader and only every three months.

Indeed. Worship isn’t worship anymore, its entertainment, with worship bands hoping to become the next Chris Tomerlin or Hill Song or being obessed with preforming perfectly, when worship is suppose to have spontaneous moments like The New Song if the Holy Spirit wants! 
 

Its a shame. I find myself gravitating to hymns like “Holy, Holy, Holy.” At least they are theologically rich l, reinforce belief, and have choruses the congregation can sing unlike sone of these complex modern worship songs that require a Juliard degree to preform.