Catholicism vs Christianity

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Marathoner said:

When we walk in the Spirit, we conduct ourselves according to His will. There are times to speak, and there are times to remain silent.

All the zeal and "rightness" possible to us means nothing if we're driven to lay our hands upon the Ark in an effort to keep it upright.

There is a way that seems right to a man, and that way leads to death. There is a fleshly wisdom that reveres the bible but pays no heed to gentleness, kindness, and good deeds with no expectation of reward.

There is a spirit that clothes itself in humility, but is haughty and proud. "I'm right and you're wrong." What manner of seed is planted by the wayward?

A toxic one. So for all the condemnation of someone who is in error along the way, yelling at them isn't a help. Extending a hand in goodwill is that help. Demonstrating by our example sows the good seed. 👍 

This is because you like testimonies. 

In the past many people talked to me about Jesus wanted to saved me from Hell..

This is very funny because they did not know me, or knew nothing about me and yet they were keen to saved me from Hell...

This is telling that they show me, or anyone else burning in Hell. What a pity. 

Not all had the same approach, some they will say that Jesus said to Nicodemus that you must be "born again" and asked "are you born again?"

I answer...I believe in Jesus Christ...I believe in Jesus Christ all my life...again...

Are you born again? Jesus said to Nicodemus that he must be born again...

I said, " I said I believe in  Jesus Christ, can you not tell if I am born to Jesus or not?" If I am born from above or not?

And then " the devils believe and are not saved"...repent or burned in Hell. What a pity. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

25 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

This is supposed to mean that Jesus Christ was from God, the second Adam, the Life giver..without an earthly Father, not the seed of an Earthly Father, not the seed of Abraham in his case. Not the seed of David...

The "seed of the woman" in Genesis 3:15

¹⁵ And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 

[Marathoner]

36 minutes ago, Starise said:

We seem to be talking about extremes here. Either a person is over zealous or has no zeal at all.

I would much rather see a brother on fire offend a few people with his zeal because he CARES about others, than someone who is afraid to comment on the truth. 

How do we know when, or if a brother is outside of some boundary unless we know his heart?

Truly excited believers are few and far in between nowadays- sort of like unicorns LOL. Zeal can be sometimes misguided and misdirected if it isn't in line with the Lord's leading.

I can't say whether you were wise of not in your delivery. Some people need a flogging over the head

"The wisdom to know when bopping the noggin is the thing to do."

That's almost impossible to quantify. It comes with time and experience walking with the Lord. Even then, being men and women who see darkly and know only in part, we might err either way. 

I'm accustomed to walking in dangerous places. This is not a neighborhood where upright, properly-dressed witnessing teams go. Nope. They stick to safer areas and neighborhoods where property values are higher. 

Around here and in places like this one, your deeds speak loudly and must always precede words. Why? Because desperate people in desperate places are accustomed to plenty of talk and no action. They're used to being preached at. Prayed for, even.

When a brain-addled addict threatens you, what do you do? React to that? Rebuke them in the name of Jesus (while fingering your gun)? Run away?

Or do you look them in the eye and say, "Need something to eat? Here, let me help you with that," or "I notice you aren't wearing shoes. I can take care of that. Do you know your shoe size?"

Wisdom and walking in the Spirit of Christ. If we listen for and obey His voice instead of doing what we think is right, the Lord will never lead us wrongly.

That's the sort of witnessing the Lord brought me up in after He bopped me upon the head for a few decades. 

[Sower]

1 hour ago, Anne2 said:

Now Scripture is a history lesson?  I will leave you to your own interpretations. All going any further will simply create arguments. You see in scripture what you see, and that is all there is to it. If the entire early church disagrees, they are simply wrong.

Agreed to not go on!

But, without replying, thinking only in your mind, do you think you would tell a possibly/probably lost loved one how to be saved, born again, according to the inspired word of God, and not from some perceived traditions. Would you trust those traditions you refer to, more than the word of God, to someone you loved?
Like your own self even? Or do you, personally, believe those traditions above the word of God? Ask God, trust God, believe God, for direction.
May God bless you greatly, Anne, with His greatest and best!
 

[Omegaman 3.0]

2 hours ago, Sower said:

You have no idea what you are talking about defending the RCC, and I am surprised no one here has informed you this topic needs to be moved to the "Catholic" section of this forum.

Sower, I like most of your posts, they have good points, but I have three questions regarding the quote above to Anne2:

1 Have you not noticed, that she is not specifically arguing for the RCC, but is in an exploration mode which is open to discussion of not-RCC expressions of faith - including non_RCC forms of Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Protestantism?

2 Since the thread is doing that, why would it be moved to the "Catholic Section"?

3 Finally, why would anyone inform her that it needs to be moved? (It is not her thread)

Still, moving the thread is an interesting thought, maybe there needs to be a "Comparative Religions" section.

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is because you like testimonies. 

In the past many people talked to me about Jesus wanted to saved me from Hell..

This is very funny because they did not know me, or knew nothing about me and yet they were keen to saved me from Hell...

This is telling that they show me, or anyone else burning in Hell. What a pity. 

Not all had the same approach, some they will say that Jesus said to Nicodemus that you must be "born again" and asked "are you born again?"

I answer...I believe in Jesus Christ...I believe in Jesus Christ all my life...again...

Are you born again? Jesus said to Nicodemus that he must be born again...

I said, " I said I believe in  Jesus Christ, can you not tell if I am born to Jesus or not?" If I am born from above or not?

And then " the devils believe and are not saved"...repent or burned in Hell. What a pity. 

 

Indeed.

When someone preaches at someone else, they're doing all the talking. This is an issue I have had and continue to have with evangelicals whose conception of showing forth the love of Christ is far removed from the example which the Lord Himself demonstrated in Gospels.

The Son of Man came in a humble manner and he wasn't notable to look upon. The prophet Isaiah apprises us of this in Isaiah 53 and according to His own words, the Lord said that He is lowly and humble.

That's a far cry from proud Christian witnesses who bang on doors uninvited. I'm glad that some folks take pride in being zealous and all that, but it should be pointed out that they have already received their reward: the admiration of their fellows during altar calls.

If a follower of the Lord isn't genuinely concerned about their neighbor, they have nothing. If they don't examine themselves and instead, pick at their neighbor, then they will be shocked when we all stand before the Son of God.

Better a meal of vegetables with love than the fattened calf with strife. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Marathoner

[Your closest friendnt]

I have met people low down who came from ministers of the Gospel families... 

And some said: look what I am doing, there is not hope for me, maybe I am one of those who are predestined to perished...

I said look in your faith in your heart, you were born in a family that believe in Jesus Christ no mater what denomination was. And you learn to believe in what your parents believe...

I asked have you denied and renounce what you had believe....have you become atheist have you embrace some other non Christian faith like Hinduism or Islamist, he started laughing and he said NO...

I said you are still have the faith in Jesus Christ in your heart...you are not lost because you believe...your works, and your lifestyle may condemn you but your faith in Jesus Justify you before God...

He talked about repentance, in your case as you are sick just give your repentance to him...look in your faith in him, and keep believing no matter what. 

After all repentance is asked from those who believe in Jesus Christ so they can repent in his name. 

You believe and are Justified before repentance of nad works. In your case you had believed since you were very small....and grew up without doing what you are doing now...works do not saved and for that matter do not contemn or cannot condemn anyone to Hell, denial, refusing to believe in Jesus Christ and dying in denial is the only thing that contemn anyone to Hell. Because when someone has denied Jesus Christ he will come to understand that he cannot be in Heaven because Heaven is the Inheritance of Jesus Christ, and for anyone else who believes that he died on the Cross for the forgivenes of his sins.

If you are lost in this world, keep your faith in Jesus Christ so you are not lost for eternity...remember you are in your own righteousness no matter how good it is, but as believer in Jesus Christ you are also in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ upon believing that he died for the forgiveness of your sins...

Jesus Christ is righteous not only for himself but also for any one who has believes in him for the forgivenes of his sins. ...have your peace because you are not going to Hell because you so think...

Particularly this man knew something from the bible, and when I looked at him his faced had change like the face of an Angel.

The peace of the Lord was upon him...he no longer tormented with the thought that he will go to Hell.

I never show that man again in that part of the city, living and begging on the sidewalk...

Edited May 24, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Marathoner]

14 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I have met people low down who came from ministers of the Gospel families... 

And some said: look what I am doing, there is not hope for me, maybe I am one of those who are predestined to perished...

I said look in your faith in your heart, you were born in a family that believe in Jesus Christ no mater what denomination was. And you learn to believe in what your parents believe...

I asked have you denied and renounce what you had believe....have you become atheist have you embrace some other non Christian faith like Hinduism or Islamist, he started laughing and he said NO...

I said you are still have the faith in Jesus Christ in your heart...you are not lost because you believe...your works, and your lifestyle may condemn you but your faith in Jesus Justify you before God...

He talked about repentance, in your case as you are sick just give your repentance to him...look in your faith in him, and keep believing no matter what. 

After all repentance is asked from those who believe in Jesus Christ so they can repent in his name. 

You believe and are Justified before repentance in your case since you were very small....and grew up without doing what you are doing now...works do not saved and for that matter do not contemn or cannot condemn anyone to Hell, denial, refusing to believe in Jesus Christ and dying in denial is the only thing that contemn anyone to Hell. Because when someone has denied Jesus Christ he will come to understand that he cannot be in Heaven because Heaven is the Inheritance of Jesus Christ. 

If you are lost in this world, keep your faith in Jesus Christ so you are not lost for eternity...remember you are in your own righteousness no matter how good it is, but as believer in Jesus Christ you are also in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ upon believing that he died for the forgiveness of sins...

Jesus Christ is righteous not only for himself but also for him....have your peace because you are not going to Hell because you so thing...

Particularly this man knew something from the bible, and when I looked at him his faced had change like the face of an Angel.

The peace of the Lord was upon him...he no longer tormented with the thought that he will go to Hell.

I never show that man again in that part of the city, living and begging on the sidewalk...

My heart is glad for the mercy and love you poured upon one who is suffering. That's what it's all about, my friend.

That is the witness of Jesus Christ in you, who is faithful to continue that work He started in all of us to the glory of God the Father. That's why we labor in this world, for the sake of the sick and the dying. 

We were sick and dying ourselves, and Christ lifted us up; we were hungry so He fed us His flesh and blood; we were blind, so He opened our eyes to His marvelous light. He is the Light of the world.

When I wrote about the problem I have with some who don't show forth the love of Jesus Christ, which is that same love He gives to us all, there is a certain religious spirit which seizes the heart and blinds the eyes. For some, the love of God is all about correct doctrine. In their correctness, they are grievously wrong.

Matters of doctrine and studying the word are for the workman, not the sick or the suffering. The dying need food, drink, and the love which Christ pours upon us... not fiery condemnation and that way which seems right to a man. The religious spirit is that way.

The Lord rebuked Peter for his instruction, but He did not upbraid the Samaritan woman at the well. He offered her water so she would never thirst instead.

So many fall into the trap which the apostle James warned us about in the first chapter of his letter. 

If anyone thinks himself to be religious, yet does not bridle his own tongue but deceives his own heart, this person's religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world. (James 1:26-27 NASB)

The religious spirit is of this world. There are Muslims who are so zealous, they'll seize you and cut the tongue out of your mouth because you offended their false god. We notice how the apostle didn't add, " and be sure to knock on doors every Sunday!"

Ah, but if we're knocking on a door to bring a meal and some company to an elder who lives on their own, that's a completely different matter. If we offer water to the thirsty --- instead of scripture verses --- and food to the hungry instead of an invitation to come to altar call at a church building, then we have done something to address our neighbor in need.

Everyone understands love without expectation of reward.

That's pure, undefiled religion. Some of the "zeal shaming" I've spotted in this topic is typical of what I found in some evangelical circles I've visited with over the years. They have their breath mints, bibles, shirts and ties, and a nice, safe neighborhood to do their thing in. How nice.

Here's an idea: why don't you dispense with breath mints, fancy clothes, and that safe neighborhood and make a beeline to the closest penitentiary? You can visit with the incarcerated who have no one else in this world.

Or perhaps you can do the unthinkable and head to that part of town where no else dares to go? You can make yourself useful and throw away needles lying around on the streets. You can give from your own abundance to those who have nothing.

Now there's an idea for a Sunday afternoon! 

[Sower]

4 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Sower, I like most of your posts, they have good points, but I have three questions regarding the quote above to Anne2:

1 Have you not noticed, that she is not specifically arguing for the RCC, but is in an exploration mode which is open to discussion of not-RCC expressions of faith - including non_RCC forms of Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Protestantism?

2 Since the thread is doing that, why would it be moved to the "Catholic Section"?

3 Finally, why would anyone inform her that it needs to be moved? (It is not her thread)

Still, moving the thread is an interesting thought, maybe there needs to be a "Comparative Religions" section.

The OP is Catholicism vs Christianity(?)  (That in itself set the stage)

(1) Not always directly, but inferred. Most of her points, (sola scripture not- RCC belief big time:), not against/not convinced- praying to the dead (strictly forbidden- RCC belief), priests go between between God the Father and His children, (one mediator Christ Jesus), non belief in priesthood of believers (RCC belief),    Anne2;  "the authority of the priesthood in its deliberative AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH A SENTENCE  OF JUDGEMENT IN A DISPUTE"

Most answers to members, and to myself, from old testament.

On 5/20/2022 at 1:27 PM, appy said:

I don't disagree, that Roman Catholics are humans who are in desperate need of hearing the gospel message as preached by the apostles in Scripture

Anne2   "I disagree they need to hear the gospel. We weaken ourselves with this divisiveness"

On 5/20/2022 at 3:01 PM, B-B said:

There can only be true unity if there is agreement with the Fundamentals of the Faith....do you believe that the RCC beliefs/doctrines are in line with the Fundamentals?

And where did those essentials come from? The very Church we have been speaking of.....

(2) Omegaman, it is not only obvious to me but other members as well,  the constant defense of the RCC, and the absence of an answered question about specific doctrinal core beliefs held/denied, old testament and apostolic text for proof reference, etc. I specifically said in one of my post that I was not attacking Anne2, just the beliefs she has been defending, primarily the RCC or other catholic church beliefs. We agreed to stop. I apologized if she thought I had done anything un-Christ like, which I do not believe I did. In the past here on this forum, I remember, especially being an ex catholic, that when someone came on and began a constant defense of the RCC, it was moved due to all the arguments started. Eventually the posters left.

(3) I don't believe I ever said it was her thread, and I could not find where I might have. It didn't matter who started it when it deteriorates to a back and forth defense  of the RCC. I feel sure you can remember this happening before. The thread usually would be locked down or moved to the catholic forum. Fortunately this one has 'most' everybody using their manners.

You said;   "Still, moving the thread is an interesting thought, maybe there needs to be a "Comparative Religions" section"

That would be your call. There is very little/no activity in the catholic section.

I would have probably enjoyed 'discussing' our differences here about the many catholic beliefs. Anne2 would not answer my and others questions concerning dogma, which raised a red flag. It would have been great to put heads together and try to find some scriptural proof to agree on.

 

 

[Anne2]

9 hours ago, Sower said:

The OP is Catholicism vs Christianity(?)  (That in itself set the stage)

I wished to avoid further dialogue. But it seems I need to respond to your version of "what I am doing or not doing".

I have been addressing Catholicism. I chose to speak on All "Catholicism"

9 hours ago, Sower said:

the absence of an answered question about specific doctrinal core beliefs held/denied, old testament and apostolic text for proof reference, etc.

First, you would not acknowledge I was not defending the RCC, not even the Greek Orthodox per se. And you are still not. I can't help that.

Second, when you brought tradition into it, vs sola scriptura, Your understanding of tradition was different than what is meant by all Catholics.  possible exception of the pope. 

 

9 hours ago, Sower said:

(1) Not always directly, but inferred. Most of her points, (sola scripture not- RCC belief big time:),

And this is based upon your application of tradition.  Which at this point I no longer wished further dialogue. As any comments to be made further would have been highly offensive to you, but unavoidable. But.. this post forces it. I wish you no ill, nor have any desire to say this in a mean spirited way. Tradition is something handed down, teaching. Which you appear to be ignorant of. Therefore in that ignorance, don't realize your own hypocrisy in having tradition yourself. Sola scriptura for you = sola my interpretation of scriptura alone is scripture. The Catholic Church historically believed the in Equality of other bishops. And apart from ALL of them, was to engage in establishing doctrine "privately".  The holy spirit was among them equally in the council. But it is not seen that way by protestants. So yes The Catholic Church believes that tradition Teachings handed down by those before them were authoritative as sola scriptura. Less than that was individual bishops going on private interpretation.

I do not wish to continue with an individual That can't acknowledge what others think or say. What's the use?

Luther dialogued with the Greek Patriarch at one point. Highly praised the Greek Church describing their sharing of doctrine and belief. He used it to validate arguments of the pope. Things eventually broke down because Luther only continued to attempt to defend his doctrines, and the patriarch finally ended dialogue because of it. It became fruitless in his eyes. You need to respect tradition of acknowledging what scripture says is not by private interpretaion. The holy spirit didn't just talk to Luther and nobody else kind of thing. It isnt theology Luther woul

Edited May 24, 2022 by Anne2