Who is Resurrected, and When?

[FreeGrace]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

How can you say that?

[This is what I posted:  "

I've connected 1 Cor 15:23 with 1 Thess 4:13-17 and 2 Thess 2:1 and Rev 20:4-6.  Why haven't you believed those verses?  If you don't think they are connected, why haven't you explained WHY you don't think they are connected?"  Because I did connect all those verses.  Why don't you think I have?  Please explain yourself.]

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

I explained THE ONLY ONES WHO WILL BELONG TO CHRIST ARE THE ALIVE AND REMAINING.  ALL THE REST ARE RETURNING WITH HIM.

[And I have proven from clear words that your opinion isn't correct.  The words "those who belong to Him" is a statement without further explanation, yet you are adding your own "explanation" of who they are.  But the TRUTH is that EVERY believer in the Messiah BELONGS TO HIM.  You are free to argue, but it doesn't matter.  EVERY believer does belong to Him, and that is what Paul meant.  And the 3 verses about a singular resurrection for the saved and a singular resurrection for the unsaved is supported by 1 Cor 15:23.]  

I explained that believers NEVER DIE and so can not be THE DEAD who rise.

[No, you just quoted a verse that you seem to not understand.  Do you think that you will never physically die?  What does Heb 9:27 say?  "Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,"  Do you believe this verse or not?] 

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
I explained the difference between following Him and the alive and remaining being changed and gathered by the angels at the 2nd Advent

 

[Your word choices only confuse the issue.  Every believer is a "follower" of the Lord.  Whether alive or dead.  So you need to figure out a better way to express yourself.  I'm still not sure whether you believe that you will never physically die or that any believer did physically die in the last 2,000 years.]

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[You should always include the next 2 verses, for they ARE context.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

v.5 parenthesis refers specifically to ALL the unbelievers, who will physically die and then be mortally raised to life to attend the GWT judgment, and then be cast into the LOF, in which their still mortal bodies will DIE AGAIN, hence, the SECOND DEATH.  The verse ends with the order of the resurrection of saved people (martyrs), the FIRST one.  So the SECOND one occurs 1,000 years later.  In v.6 the words "second death" is specific for all unbelievers, who will face the GWT judgment and be cast into the LOF.]

The armies that return with Him, the them that slept, the even so them, the every man in his own order, the souls under the altar, those beheaded, those who came out of great trib ect

Huh?  What is the context for this?

[FreeGrace]

10 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I'll go another 1000 times with you.

[Whatever that means.]

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Jesus was a spirit.  Jesus had a body.  Jesus was resurrected in a body.  When we see Him we shall be like Him.

[At the Second Advent is when we see Him.]  


BETTER THAN ME SHOWING YOU WITH A BODY again,

HOW ABOUT JUST ONE SINGLE TIME SHOWING ME 'WITHOUT A BODY'?

[Oh no.  You're not going to change the subject here.  YOU need to show me where the Bible says those who die and go to heaven have a BODY.  You are just giving me an opinion.  I wonder where you are getting your information from?]

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And, your point?

[FreeGrace]

9 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Why are the souls under the altar given ROBES?  just to TRICK US INTO THINKING THEY HAVE A BODY?

What about their crying out?  ANOTHER TRICK?

[What makes you think a soul needs a body to wear a robe?  Or crying out requires a body?  Seems you are only applying your opinions here.  What you can't do is quote a verse that says when believers die they go to heaven in a body of some sort.   I know a pastor from many years ago who thought that those in heaven had some sort of "interim body" or 'temporary body'.  

Actually, I don't care.  It doesn't matter.  It seems to really confuse you, though.  I just stick with what is written, which you claim for yourself but don't really practice.  When a believer dies physically, their body goes into the ground and their soul goes to be with the Lord in heaven.  Period.  When the King returns, all the dead believers in heaven will come with Him, and THEY will meet the living believers IN the air and ALL believers will receive glorified resurrection bodies.  That is the FACT and that is all I'm interested in.]

What about at the feet of the angel John fell down to worship?  YET ANOTHER act of deception in the words of God?

[Of course angels have feet.  When they appear to humans, they look human.  I thought everyone understood that.  And angels can be invisible as well.  There is lots we don't understand because the Bible hasn't explained all that to us.]  
EITHER GOD is or isn't the author of confusion.

[Whereever you have gotten your information from is confused.]  

How about in the resurrection we are LIKE THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN, just no marriage?  

if there are no bodies THEN that would make GOD THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION.  

No, it's just you that is confused.  Jesus was teaching that when believers receive their glorified bodies, they will be "like the angels" in heaven.  And His point was about procreation/marriage.  So pay attention to context.  

However, we know that Jesus' glorified resurrection is FAR SUPERIOR to every angel, and Paul said that believers would "judge the angels", most likely the fallen ones.  1 Cor 6:3

[FreeGrace]

14 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

WHY?  you don't.  YOU CLAIM you do but then it never happens. 

[I can't help your failure to understand.  I have given you many verses that say what I have said to you.] 

WHAT VERSE SAYS spirits return for a body?

[What verse says that bodies return for a body?  How ridiculous.  James 2:26 defines physical death as the spirit apart from the body.  Just believe that.  So all the believers who are now with Jesus in heaven do NOT have their physical body, and the Bible doesn't say that they even have bodies, so don't assume so.  And 1 Thess 4 tells us that all believers in heaven will return with the King, and receive resurrection bodies.  How is that not clear to you?]

What verse says carcases are resurrected and spirits without bodies 'reunite' with them?  or spirit go into the corruption for an old decaying body?

I've been asking these questions over and over as everyone can see just as everyone can see you have never answered them.  

Your continued questions reveal that you aren't open to any explanation.  You're just holding on tightly to what someone has taught you, but you never challenged them to show the verses that SAY what they SAY.

Kinda the whole problem with evangelicalism today.  

[DeighAnn]

29 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

No, it's just you that is confused.  Jesus was teaching that when believers receive their glorified bodies, they will be "like the angels" in heaven.  And His point was about procreation/marriage.  So pay attention to context.  

However, we know that Jesus' glorified resurrection is FAR SUPERIOR to every angel, and Paul said that believers would "judge the angels", most likely the fallen ones.  1 Cor 6:3

raised a spiritual body THAT IS WRITTEN

raised in glory THAT IS WRITTEN

raised before returning to be raised THAT IS NOT WRITTEN

Who is confused?

[DeighAnn]

28 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Your continued questions reveal that you aren't open to any explanation.  You're just holding on tightly to what someone has taught you, but you never challenged them to show the verses that SAY what they SAY.

Kinda the whole problem with evangelicalism today.  

Again, WRITTEN
raised a spiritual body
raised in glory

NOT WRITTEN
raised and returned to be raised out from the corruption.  


 Whatever the problem 

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 

[FreeGrace]

44 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

raised a spiritual body THAT IS WRITTEN

[I've never argued that we aren't.]

raised in glory THAT IS WRITTEN

[I've never argued that we won't be.]

raised before returning to be raised THAT IS NOT WRITTEN
Who is confused?

I've never said anyone is resurrected (meaning receiving a glorified spiritual body) before returning to be raised.

So the answer continues to be YOU.  I've made myself very clear and have verses that say what I say.  Why can't you understand what I post?

[FreeGrace]

33 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Again, WRITTEN
raised a spiritual body
raised in glory

[Yes.  Refers to the singular resurrection of believers, at the Second Advent.]

NOT WRITTEN
raised and returned to be raised out from the corruption.

[I never said any of this erroneous stuff.]  


 Whatever the problem

[Good question.  You'll have to answer it.  You have shown your confusion by apparently claiming that I have said believers are "raised and returned to be raised out from the corruption".  Whatever led you to that?  Nothing I posted.] 

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 

Great verse!  Now, explain how it relates to our discussion about the resurrection.

[DeighAnn]

27 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I've never said anyone is resurrected (meaning receiving a glorified spiritual body) before returning to be raised.

So the answer continues to be YOU.  I've made myself very clear and have verses that say what I say.  Why can't you understand what I post?

Since I never said you said someone is resurrected 'before returning to be raised' it is not me who can't understand.  

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Great verse!  Now, explain how it relates to our discussion about the resurrection.

the OPPOSITE of rendered bodyless and 'returned to be raised' yet again.  

The very fact that one must be RETURNED to be raised

MEANS on HAS ALREADY BEEN RAISED. 

IF THAT FIRST RESURRECTION was just accepted instead of creating another one out of thin air, we could end this conversation.  



20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Change.  Not leave behind and return for.

raised a spiritual body, raised in glory

vs

returned for a spiritual body, returned for glory

what is written?