Is abortion for raped victims allowed ?

[Omegaman 3.0]

7 hours ago, believeinHim said:

Oh, Thanks for letting this be the only post that you people put through. Oy Vey! You realize this is the harder one to answer, Right ? 

It should not be that hard to answer, just difficult to refute. That the govt is not to interfer in church matters, is easy to see, just read the what they put in the constitution. 

In the first amendment it says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

There is nothing vague about "congress shall make no law"!

[Omegaman 3.0]

8 hours ago, believeinHim said:

They wanted the government would keep out of the business of the church, The Christian church. Not the Muslim, Or the Judaism church.

What is your source for that? Not all of the founders where Christians, my any means, and the used the word religion, not Christianity when they wrote the amendment. What they accomplished, was to keep the Federal government, and allow the states to have state religions if they want to. If some state wanted to be a Roman Catholic state, that would be the states' prerogative. As a matter of fact, the way it worked out, is that some states required a statement of faith, in oder for a person to hold public office. In some cases, the statment of faith was specifically Christian in nature. 

Some evidence of the legacy of all these things, in terms of Religion being allowed in Federal institutions, but fereal institutions staying out of the way of religions . . .

Chaplains in the military, paid for with taxpayer dollars

The posting of the Ten Commandments on courtroom walls

Using the Bible for swearing in ceremonies for public office, you get the idea.

However, this side discussion of ours, is off the topic of rape/abortion. https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/off-topic-2.png

[Leonardo Von]

No. If the Creator allowed the woman gets pregnant it is because He wishes to use this woman to do a great work in the life of this child (and vice-versa).

 

[The_Patriot21]

5 hours ago, Thewhitedove said:

I've had 2 c-sections (and one natural birth). Both modes were absolutely brutal in their own ways. Caesarian sections are major surgery and absolutely no walk in the park. I am pro-life, but we absolutely have to be realistic as to the immense risk and realities involved during pregnancy and childbirth. It undermines the cause so much when we sweep away the reality of what carrying and delivering a baby entails.

I can't imagine a little child going through labour nor recovering from a c section. As a healthy, grown woman, I was absolutely traumatised after the birth of my first child and felt like like I had been hit by a bus after all of them.

Please let's not minimise the pressure which pregnancy puts on a woman's body, nor how horrendous childbirth can be, including c sections. I say that as someone who despises abortion. It needs to be acknowledged. 

I don't believe I ever did, I just said that, unlike 50 or 60 years ago, C-sections are no longer the risky operation only to be tried as a last resort due to their danger. While they are still an operation, with risks involved and can and often are traumatizing, especially if your forced into one, they are by in large safe. 

It is safe enough where a 9 year old could survive it, while 60 years ago it would be unlikely. Its safe enough that some women, do actually choose to have one even though they don't have to. And if it's a voluntary choice, it's not all that traumatizing. I've actually met a couple such women who chose that route. 

A C-section on a 9 or 10 year old would certainly be traumatizing, but not anymore so then the rape or the following pregnancy and something manageable if that child had a good solid support system.

It's been brought up a lot, in this thread included that christians are "pro birth" and not "pro life" in that we dogmatically insist on life, but frequently could care less about what happens after the child is born, and while it's not a fair argument across the board because many christians do care and do reach out and try to help, it is a legit argument among many churches.

My wife noticed a lot of teenage mothers who came into the crisis pregnancy center she worked in looking for help came from christian families. They were either scared of the repercussions of their parents finding out or in some cases had been literally thrown out on the street because of their actions.

So it is a valid argument, something we do need to work on. We seem to forget that while Jesus wasn't afraid to call out sin, He followed that up by extending grace. And we throw that in His face when we decide not to follow His example.

So, I will never advocate abortion even if the mother is a young child. And I will call it what it is, murder. But, if I'm in a place to help any of these woman, I am more then willing to do so. I am even willing to help those who have gone through with it.

[Dennis1209]

11 hours ago, ayin jade said:

I know some will disagree but that pregnancy is difficult still does not justify murder of the unborn. No one was guaranteed an easy pain free life.

Genesis 3:16 (KJV) Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

The price of sin entering the world.

[Dennis1209]

11 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

It should not be that hard to answer, just difficult to refute. That the govt is not to interfer in church matters, is easy to see, just read the what they put in the constitution. 

In the first amendment it says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

There is nothing vague about "congress shall make no law"!

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. ~ John Adams

Leaving my comments aside, I’d say this quote is insightful and almost prophetic.

[Figure of eighty]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:19 PM, Jayne said:

Unlike someone who just quoted me, I don't believe that "sometimes abortions are necessary."  I don't believe them to be necessary at all.

What I do find necessary is for Christians to go FAR beyond the anti-abortion mantra and do the very hard work of actually being pro-life - all the way.

I've asked a question two times on this thread and gotten no response.  Crickets chirping.

I'll ask a third time.

Let's say it's your 9 year old daughter, 16 year old neice, 27 year old sister, or 48 year old mother.  

And she is raped.  

And discovering that she is pregnant, she is a hot mess.  Traumatized at carrying a rapist's child.  Mentally undone and a wreck, refusing to carry the child.

What does the Christian family member do?  How you treat her will tell you if you are truly pro-life or not or just anti-abortion.

You can say all day that, "well, the baby didn't do anything wrong" and that is TRUE, but WHAT DO YOU DO with your raped famiy member?  How treat them BOTH, the unborn and the raped child or teen or grown woman speaks volumes as to your beliefs.

What  do we do with the traumazed female who is refusing to carry the baby of the man who raped her?

Personally, I would like to see the baby have a chance to be born.

It's  a question that needs to be answered.

 

This is very hard. All i know is if my 10yr old daughter was raped.. Id be too busy in jail for beating the person near death that did it and Id let my mom continue raising my girl. 

 

Thats my honest answer. 

 

 

[Figure of eighty]

On 7/17/2022 at 7:06 PM, Heleadethme said:

Well, as a mother who gave birth out of wedlock when I was truly a lost soul, I can say that pregnancy, birth and either raising the child without a father, or giving it up for adoption, is much much more than a mere inconvenience, and often it is even a long running tragedy and sorrow that one never recovers from.  I hope we can find it in our heart to extend some understanding and charity to young women who wind up facing that situation, especially in a society that is actively giving them the message that their chief value lies in being a sex object.

Actually I don't believe that we as the church really are in the business of making and enforcing laws.  That's not the mandate Jesus gave to us.   If the church was as busy spreading the gospel the way it used to, I can't help but think we'd be seeing less fornication and rape, hence fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions.  Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

It is hard. Im living it.

On 7/17/2022 at 11:52 PM, JohnR7 said:

The issue is getting into Heaven. The child goes to Heaven and if the mother wants to go to Heaven she will have to be reconciled with her child. I actually had a very vivid dream about my daughter in Heaven. 

Reconciled how?

[TheBlade]

"for raped victims" as a man I have no clue idea of this kind of horror pain. What I do know is that unborn life had no choice in this matter and sorry it is not the person that did that awful crime. In the end someone was killed, murdered.

It ..well I struggle to know why this life means so much to the Father. Well one would think a baby goes right to the Father prasie God. I don't know maybe a free choice..to learn what good evil really are all about.. what salvation really is about. Angels long to know what we do. 

[believeinHim]

On 7/18/2022 at 6:41 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

What is your source for that? Not all of the founders where Christians, my any means, and the used the word religion, not Christianity when they wrote the amendment. What they accomplished, was to keep the Federal government, and allow the states to have state religions if they want to.

I believe there is evidence of Christian and Christianity comments and statements from all four of them, @Omegaman 3.0!

On 7/18/2022 at 6:41 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

If some state wanted to be a Roman Catholic state, that would be the states' prerogative. As a matter of fact, the way it worked out, is that some states required a statement of faith, in oder for a person to hold public office. In some cases, the statment of faith was specifically Christian in nature. 

I am not sure this is accurate, There are Christian statements from all of them, @Omegaman 3.0. And if we go as far back as the Romans, Why not just go Orthodox then ?!

On 7/18/2022 at 6:41 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Some evidence of the legacy of all these things, in terms of Religion being allowed in Federal institutions, but fereal institutions staying out of the way of religions . . .

Chaplains in the military, paid for with taxpayer dollars

The posting of the Ten Commandments on courtroom walls

They have since removed the Ten Commandments, Probably because of the extremism !

On 7/18/2022 at 6:41 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Using the Bible for swearing in ceremonies for public office, you get the idea.

That does not make turning an American state in to a Muslim state, legal in America !

On 7/18/2022 at 6:41 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

However, this side discussion of ours, is off the topic of rape/abortion. https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/off-topic-2.png

Well, Getting back to the original topic, I voted for all Trump nominees, As well as the County Attorney who has a history of prosecuting {**} crimes ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !