Soul Sleep versus the words of Jesus

[Bluedragon]

There are Christian denominations that believe in Soul Sleep. However, the words of Jesus disputes that doctrine. 

It all started with the Hebrew belief in Sheol. A two room holding place if you will. One room Hades for non believers and the other room Abraham's Bosom for those that did God's will, followed his laws, sacrificed and prayed throughout their life. Keep in mind, this room is needed because there was no Jesus, but there needed to be a division in Sheol. Good Guys versus Bad guys.  

In Luke, Jesus gives us a view of Sheol. The rich man goes to Hades and the poor man goes to Abraham's Bosom. The rich man sees the poor man at his gate and seeks relief from the torment in Hades. He asks for the poor man to dip his finger in water, reach out and give him some relief. What he does not know is the gap between both rooms is greater than their reach. One cannot reach to the other.

We go further. Jesus has completed his ministry and is dying on the cross. One thief, converts and believes that Jesus is the Savior. Jesus states "Today you will join me in Paradise." Araham's Bosom is referred to as Paradise. Jesus dies and after having his legs broken the thief dies shortly after. 

In Peter, he presents the case that Jesus goes to preach to the prisoners. The prisoners being those in Abraham's Bosom. Jesus does not descend into Hell. Hell is much later after the Judgment. Who is in Abraham's Bosom? Notable ones such as Noah, Moses, Joseph, Job, David ...

I believe that Peter knew this because the Apostle's spent 40 days with the resurrected Jesus and got an ear full, learning far more than they learned over three years in his ministry. Jesus told them of preaching to the prisoners. I also believe that the prisoners were brought up to heaven following the ascension Jesus has powers,  but the ascension seals the deal. 

This means that the room Abraham's Bosom is empty. After all Jesus draws the line in the sand. "No one goes before the Lord except through me." You have to believe in Christ as the Son of God. All believers souls go to heaven and the former existence of Abraham's Bosom and the continued existence of Hades says there never was a soul sleep. Soul sleep declares Sheol non existent, making Luke and Peter a fraud. 

That's not what has happened. The soul goes to be with God at the moment of death. 

 

[R. Hartono]

14 hours ago, Bluedragon said:

There are Christian denominations that believe in Soul Sleep. However, the words of Jesus disputes that doctrine. 

It all started with the Hebrew belief in Sheol. A two room holding place if you will. One room Hades for non believers and the other room Abraham's Bosom for those that did God's will, followed his laws, sacrificed and prayed throughout their life. Keep in mind, this room is needed because there was no Jesus, but there needed to be a division in Sheol. Good Guys versus Bad guys.  

In Luke, Jesus gives us a view of Sheol. The rich man goes to Hades and the poor man goes to Abraham's Bosom. The rich man sees the poor man at his gate and seeks relief from the torment in Hades. He asks for the poor man to dip his finger in water, reach out and give him some relief. What he does not know is the gap between both rooms is greater than their reach. One cannot reach to the other.

We go further. Jesus has completed his ministry and is dying on the cross. One thief, converts and believes that Jesus is the Savior. Jesus states "Today you will join me in Paradise." Araham's Bosom is referred to as Paradise. Jesus dies and after having his legs broken the thief dies shortly after. 

In Peter, he presents the case that Jesus goes to preach to the prisoners. The prisoners being those in Abraham's Bosom. Jesus does not descend into Hell. Hell is much later after the Judgment. Who is in Abraham's Bosom? Notable ones such as Noah, Moses, Joseph, Job, David ...

I believe that Peter knew this because the Apostle's spent 40 days with the resurrected Jesus and got an ear full, learning far more than they learned over three years in his ministry. Jesus told them of preaching to the prisoners. I also believe that the prisoners were brought up to heaven following the ascension Jesus has powers,  but the ascension seals the deal. 

This means that the room Abraham's Bosom is empty. After all Jesus draws the line in the sand. "No one goes before the Lord except through me." You have to believe in Christ as the Son of God. All believers souls go to heaven and the former existence of Abraham's Bosom and the continued existence of Hades says there never was a soul sleep. Soul sleep declares Sheol non existent, making Luke and Peter a fraud. 

That's not what has happened. The soul goes to be with God at the moment of death. 

 

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/262448-no-saints-are-in-heaven-now-until-the-rapture/

 

[missmuffet]

21 hours ago, Bluedragon said:

There are Christian denominations that believe in Soul Sleep. However, the words of Jesus disputes that doctrine. 

It all started with the Hebrew belief in Sheol. A two room holding place if you will. One room Hades for non believers and the other room Abraham's Bosom for those that did God's will, followed his laws, sacrificed and prayed throughout their life. Keep in mind, this room is needed because there was no Jesus, but there needed to be a division in Sheol. Good Guys versus Bad guys.  

In Luke, Jesus gives us a view of Sheol. The rich man goes to Hades and the poor man goes to Abraham's Bosom. The rich man sees the poor man at his gate and seeks relief from the torment in Hades. He asks for the poor man to dip his finger in water, reach out and give him some relief. What he does not know is the gap between both rooms is greater than their reach. One cannot reach to the other.

We go further. Jesus has completed his ministry and is dying on the cross. One thief, converts and believes that Jesus is the Savior. Jesus states "Today you will join me in Paradise." Araham's Bosom is referred to as Paradise. Jesus dies and after having his legs broken the thief dies shortly after. 

In Peter, he presents the case that Jesus goes to preach to the prisoners. The prisoners being those in Abraham's Bosom. Jesus does not descend into Hell. Hell is much later after the Judgment. Who is in Abraham's Bosom? Notable ones such as Noah, Moses, Joseph, Job, David ...

I believe that Peter knew this because the Apostle's spent 40 days with the resurrected Jesus and got an ear full, learning far more than they learned over three years in his ministry. Jesus told them of preaching to the prisoners. I also believe that the prisoners were brought up to heaven following the ascension Jesus has powers,  but the ascension seals the deal. 

This means that the room Abraham's Bosom is empty. After all Jesus draws the line in the sand. "No one goes before the Lord except through me." You have to believe in Christ as the Son of God. All believers souls go to heaven and the former existence of Abraham's Bosom and the continued existence of Hades says there never was a soul sleep. Soul sleep declares Sheol non existent, making Luke and Peter a fraud. 

That's not what has happened. The soul goes to be with God at the moment of death. 

 

That is true. Soul sleep is not biblical. Every true Christian goes to heaven the minute they die. Every unbeliever goes immediately to Hades when they die. 

[Bluedragon]

12 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/262448-no-saints-are-in-heaven-now-until-the-rapture/

 

The concept of soul sleep became popular with some Christians in the 1830s. It came from a doctrine taught by Arnobius of Sicca in a book called Against the Pagans that was written about 305 A.D. Arnobius taught that souls could not exist without a body unless God divinely preserved the soul for eternity. Likewise, he taught that the souls of wicked (unbelievers) go to the fires of Hell (Gehenna) where they are ultimately consumed or annihilated.

It's impossible to defend something one has no idea about where the idea originated.

In 1830 a false doctrine is accepted in the church. This creates this following but misses the target by hundreds of feet. Here's why. 

Jesus defended the idea of Sheol in his Luke parable. For Jesus to defend the concept, means Jesus knew about, what I call the two rooms. He also knew that Abraham's Bosom was filled with souls to be saved. If I use the analogy of sleep, I've disputed Abraham's Bosom and declare Jesus to be a liar. For with the concept "All souls go to sleep" There is no Sheol and there is no need for Jesus to go "Free the prisoners." Also the concept of the thief joining Jesus in Paradise is false. Once again ....Jesus knew of Sheol and used it in Luke. The use of Paradise comes from Jews considering  "Abraham' s Bosom to be far better than across the street in Hades. The use of Paradise at the time refers to "Abraham's Bosom and not the second coming. Remember  .....no one knows who Christ is at this time. But once again ......if all soul go to sleep, there no need for the trip because everyone in Hades and Abraham's Bosom is ...asleep. So a lie on the cross, a lie to the thief ....I think someone has a lot of bear to carry that load .....Jesus knew those souls were not asleep, they were in Abraham's Bosom. 

Interesting concept ....not an abusive amount of cut and paste overbearing works of others needed to defend an opinion while using the Bible to defend this one ....

I follow the print, explore the concepts and look for the paper trail to the beginning. The Bible is full of connecting the dots to reach the truth. The challenge is to find the dots and make the connection. 

The concept of sleep ......calls out Jesus as a deceiver .and doesn't recognize the fact that Jesus told the audience what was to come and what to expect.  And it got it's start by a false doctrine created in 305AD....I wonder if it was part of the works of the Book of .Judas?  
Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-is-the-doctrine-of-soul-sleep-is-it-biblical/#ixzz7ajQOQXrY

Edited August 1, 2022 by Bluedragon

[Riverwalker]

2nd Corinthians 5:6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

 

We are already seated in heavenly places, so that when we die.....our body goes into the ground to await resurrection, but WE (our spirits/souls) are in heaven with God

(could not find "soul sleep" in the bible btw)

[other one]

I am not going to look up all the scripture for it is scattered all over the Bible.

My personal take on the subject is that soul sleep was active until Jesus was resurrected and it was possible to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit.   When it says we are born again, I think that means literally and our spirit is reborn and connected to God.

Now Jesus followers go to be with him and others still soul sleep.