Genesis Questions

[Alive]

You get into trouble when you try to make the bible something it is not.

[B-B]

21 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Me, I believe the word of God is perfect and the Bible we have is the words God wanted us to have.

I agree with you

[tim_from_pa]

21 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Well, science is constantly evolving and correcting itself from many false teachings it has had over the centuries. Science is NOT infallible. I will only say this. The Bible ( GOD ) says everything in the universe was created in 6 DAYS. Science ( Man's fallible theories ) says that it's billions of years old. Either God who was there is right or Man who was not there is right. They CAN'T both be right.

Well, one solid proof I have about the age of the universe is a simple law of distance (d) and velocity.  We know the velocity of light (c), and we know that vast distances of stellar objects.  So to calculate time (t) is simply d/c.  In other words, we could not see past 6000 light years if the universe was that young. And I don't believe in a diabolical God who would contort the evidence to make it appear that way, either.  We are given a mind to think and reason things out.  So if the evidence is indisputable, then there must be a misinterpretation of scripture (or, it simply does not say).

[Jayne]

20 minutes ago, tim_from_pa said:

Well, one solid proof I have about the age of the universe is a simple law of distance (d) and velocity.  We know the velocity of light (c), and we know that vast distances of stellar objects.  So to calculate time (t) is simply d/c.  In other words, we could not see past 6000 light years if the universe was that young. And I don't believe in a diabolical God who would contort the evidence to make it appear that way, either.  We are given a mind to think and reason things out.  So if the evidence is indisputable, then there must be a misinterpretation of scripture (or, it simply does not say).

If God's ways don't fit your "proof", why does that make him "diabolical"?

[tim_from_pa]

22 minutes ago, Jayne said:

If God's ways don't fit your "proof", why does that make him "diabolical"?

I did not say proof.  I said evidence from which one can draw a conclusion and thus a proof. I started out by saying a proof and then explained why in other words and just worded the conclusion from the available facts. Measuring distances to stars is rudimentary astronomy if you'd like to look into how they do that. This is why you get a lot of these flat earthers these days who deny thousands of years of consistent observation and extrapolate that out to the universe.  As for your question, that does not do the cause of Christ any good if the same Word that created everything makes it appear otherwise, thus IMO diabolical because he's denying himself.  In fact, if the truth of our physical world can be verified, then it is the Word of God who spoke everything into existence.  Now it does nobody any good here to put what I said on the spot when there's evidence (and simple evidence at that).  I don't have to explain the evidence.  The burden of proof is really in your court to show why d/c does not equal time.  

[Jayne]

Yes, I am aware of d = rt.  I taught both science and math.  I also understand the use of parallax measuring of distance to stars and taught that, too.

I just know that it's been a big debate with many a physicist, astronomer, and more of the consistency of the speed of light across time.

What if the speed of light [c] has not always been a constant?  What about the fact of the effects gravity on velocity and therefore, time?

What about the conversation  about the naturalness or supernaturalness of creation and did God create stars with light already on their way - like he created Adam already a man - did he create the universe a "grown up" universe?

I'm just not going to be so rigid as to say that I am smart enough to say with definitiveness the age of the universe.

I have too many questions that are too big and I have no reason to question God.

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Jayne

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

23 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

Well, one solid proof I have about the age of the universe is a simple law of distance (d) and velocity.  We know the velocity of light (c), and we know that vast distances of stellar objects.  So to calculate time (t) is simply d/c.  In other words, we could not see past 6000 light years if the universe was that young. And I don't believe in a diabolical God who would contort the evidence to make it appear that way, either.  We are given a mind to think and reason things out.  So if the evidence is indisputable, then there must be a misinterpretation of scripture (or, it simply does not say).

So if you're going by light speed and distance of objects, then your theory is flawed. There are MANY creation scientists that believe in a young earth. They have PhD's and are very educated. Obviously the so called evolution evidence is not very solid. Besides, God's word says the earth is young. Are you saying that Man is more intelligent than God? God says he created man on the 6th day, so the universe is only 6 days older than man. So my only question to you is this. Who is correct and who is lying, God or Science?

 

Please note that God created Adam as an adult. He looked probably 30 years old although he was really only 1 day. God also created the universe with the appearance of age. He can easily create a universe trust looks billions of years old and yet may only be thousands.

[tim_from_pa]

33 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

So if you're going by light speed and distance of objects, then your theory is flawed. There are MANY creation scientists that believe in a young earth. They have PhD's and are very educated. Obviously the so called evolution evidence is not very solid. Besides, God's word says the earth is young. Are you saying that Man is more intelligent than God? God says he created man on the 6th day, so the universe is only 6 days older than man. So my only question to you is this. Who is correct and who is lying, God or Science?

 

Please note that God created Adam as an adult. He looked probably 30 years old although he was really only 1 day. God also created the universe with the appearance of age. He can easily create a universe trust looks billions of years old and yet may only be thousands.

...and there's that nagging question of distance divided by the velocity of light which you circumvented.  We are looking back in time at stars.  Like the mile markers on a highway when one does the average "mile per minute" travel we can indeed tell time by the mile markers.  The galaxy is vast enough to take light 100,000 years to travel that, then if everything was here only 6000 years you could not see the milky way.  While it would be possible for a galaxy to only be that old, we would not see all of it in other words.  Thus, if we see light from 100,000 years ago, then it must have existed then to see it now.  I can't prove it still exists, but it did then.  

Quote

Are you saying that Man is more intelligent than God? God says he created man on the 6th day, so the universe is only 6 days older than man. So my only question to you is this. Who is correct and who is lying, God or Science?

Actually, God created Adam on the 6th day.  I have no idea what was running around before then although I am approaching this merely from an age related stance and not biology.  As for who is lying, it's not a matter of one trying to lie and the other being truthful. Rather, I am merely pointing out evidence that the universe is of a vast age.  if I know the distance of something, and divide by the speed of light, then that is the time is takes to reach one.  So I'd be lying if I said anything else.  And God would be dishonest (putting it mildly) if He created something, and then by the same laws made the outcome appear other than what it is. That's confusion.

Abraham was promised numerous seed as the dust of the earth, the sand of the seashore and stars of heaven.  The first two represent physical and national descendants.  The latter are those of faith and are compared to eternity.  So what do the stars represent?  Vastness of space and an eternal nature; that's why that analogy was used.

 

[WilliamL]

On 8/7/2022 at 3:44 PM, kwikphilly said:

I'm not discounting what you believe but for myself I do not " parrot" that the Written Word(Bible) is His Infallible,Inerrant,Inspired Word..... This I see with the eyes of my heart Brother - to God be the Glory ❤️

And you are welcome to believe what you do.

Concerning this issue, I believe what I can prove from the Bible. And I can easily show from the Bible that certain passages contradict each other; for one example, with respect to the timing of events of Crucifixion week. Anyone who has closely studied and compared the different Gospel accounts knows this.

And I believe that "infallible contradictions" is an oxymoron. Nothing personal.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

19 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

...and there's that nagging question of distance divided by the velocity of light which you circumvented.  We are looking back in time at stars.  Like the mile markers on a highway when one does the average "mile per minute" travel we can indeed tell time by the mile markers.  The galaxy is vast enough to take light 100,000 years to travel that, then if everything was here only 6000 years you could not see the milky way.  While it would be possible for a galaxy to only be that old, we would not see all of it in other words.  Thus, if we see light from 100,000 years ago, then it must have existed then to see it now.  I can't prove it still exists, but it did then.  

Actually, God created Adam on the 6th day.  I have no idea what was running around before then although I am approaching this merely from an age related stance and not biology.  As for who is lying, it's not a matter of one trying to lie and the other being truthful. Rather, I am merely pointing out evidence that the universe is of a vast age.  if I know the distance of something, and divide by the speed of light, then that is the time is takes to reach one.  So I'd be lying if I said anything else.  And God would be dishonest (putting it mildly) if He created something, and then by the same laws made the outcome appear other than what it is. That's confusion.

Abraham was promised numerous seed as the dust of the earth, the sand of the seashore and stars of heaven.  The first two represent physical and national descendants.  The latter are those of faith and are compared to eternity.  So what do the stars represent?  Vastness of space and an eternal nature; that's why that analogy was used.

 

I think you are operating on the premise that the speed of light has always been the same. Yet it has been shown that gravity affects the speed of light. Some creationists say that it's VERY possible that at the creation, the speed of light was much faster than it is now. I know there is some science that supports an old earth. But there is also some science that supports a young earth. The Bible says it's young. God's word is good enough for me. I don't need to have all the answers. I have no clue how to prove a young earth. BUT I will trust the one who made it and agree with the age he set. And I will try not to argue about it. Thanks for talking to me. I appreciate your comments. God Bless you.