what needs to happen for the end times to arrive ?

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn C.

The correct term is the "Time of Jacob's Trouble." It is also the TRUE "Great Tribulation Period."

Yes Retro, that is what God`s word says.

 Then I was finishing the sentence, `the end times...` with, `And Jerusalem will be trampled down by Gentiles until the TIMES OF THE GENTILES are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24)

People say the `end times,` but it is not the `end.` Thus the sentence needs completing - the end of the Gentiles ruling the world.

So a few names for different aspects of that time.

Marilyn. 

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

YEP! A third temple IS going to happen!

For clarification, my point is that I don't think the next temple will be built BEFORE Jesus returns. Now a temple as seen in Ezekiel,s prophecy-no problem. but not until then.

[Sparks]

55 minutes ago, Uriah said:

For clarification, my point is that I don't think the next temple will be built BEFORE Jesus returns. Now a temple as seen in Ezekiel,s prophecy-no problem. but not until then.

If there is no Third Temple, where will the anti-christ sit and claim to be God?

Also, they pretty much are already building parts of the Third Temple, today.  The Altar, and so on.  The site below shows some of it, from back in 2015.

New Details Emerge on Rebuilt Altar of Jewish Holy Temple [PHOTOS]

[Retrobyter]

39 minutes ago, Uriah said:

For clarification, my point is that I don't think the next temple will be built BEFORE Jesus returns. Now a temple as seen in Ezekiel,s prophecy-no problem. but not until then.

Shalom, Uriah.

Listen, brother. You're not understanding what Yeshua` was saying. Think about the timing of these words:

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD.'"

Connect this with ....

Psalm 118:26 (KJV)

26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

בָּר֣וּךְ הַ֭בָּא בְּשֵׁ֣ם יְהוָ֑ה בֵּ֝רַֽכְנוּכֶ֗ם מִבֵּ֥ית יְהוָֽה׃

The Hebrew of the beginning of this verse transliterated is ...

Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH

It means "Welcome, the-Comer in-name of-YHWH." In fact, the first two words, ברוך הבא, are in the plural, ברוכים הבאים,

at all the airports and seaports in Israel, meaning "Welcome, visitors!":

So, Yeshua` said they wouldn't be seeing Him until they could welcome Him back, and the verse says they will welcome Him back from the Temple. THEREFORE, a Temple MUST be built before the Second Coming! Follow?

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Sparks said:

If there is no Third Temple, where will the anti-christ sit and claim to be God?

Also, they pretty much are already building parts of the Third Temple, today.  The Altar, and so on.  The site below shows some of it, from back in 2015.

New Details Emerge on Rebuilt Altar of Jewish Holy Temple [PHOTOS]

They have been preparing for a very long time. However, one of the previous leaders of Temple Mount faithful ( quite sure that is the name) was asked about this. According to him, they do indeed prepare for the temple, BUT they will NOT build it because it was prophesied many years prior by Zechariah that:.

Zac 6:12- And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. 

And so, many Jewish people despise Western Christians that want a temple built for an blaspheming anti-Christ. By the way, would a gentile EVER be allowed into the Holy Place? Or cameras, even by a Jewish high priest? It would NEVER be allowed. 

The act described by Paul is also the abomination of desolation referenced by Jesus (you shall see...in the Holy Place) and was stated by Daniel, who said it would be "on a wing (border) of the temple. And John in Revelation tells us it is an image that speaks!

 

My crude attempt in expressing digitally what fulfills all 4 prophecies at once!

The statement by Paul about, "as God sitting in the Temple of God" is truly about HOW he is behaving, not his physical location.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Uriah

[Uriah]

50 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Think about the timing of these words

Luke 13:34- O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Luke 19:37 & 38-And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. 

[Sparks]

5 hours ago, Uriah said:

They have been preparing for a very long time. However, one of the previous leaders of Temple Mount faithful ( quite sure that is the name) was asked about this. According to him, they do indeed prepare for the temple, BUT they will NOT build it because it was prophesied many years prior by Zechariah that:.

Zac 6:12- And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. 

And so, many Jewish people despise Western Christians that want a temple built for an blaspheming anti-Christ. By the way, would a gentile EVER be allowed into the Holy Place? Or cameras, even by a Jewish high priest? It would NEVER be allowed. 

The act described by Paul is also the abomination of desolation referenced by Jesus (you shall see...in the Holy Place) and was stated by Daniel, who said it would be "on a wing (border) of the temple. And John in Revelation tells us it is an image that speaks!

My crude attempt in expressing digitally what fulfills all 4 prophecies at once!

The statement by Paul about, "as God sitting in the Temple of God" is truly about HOW he is behaving, not his physical location.

They have not been building the Altar and interior parts for a very long; circa 2015.  The Jews, scribes and priests departed the second temple in 70 AD and were not even around to build it for a very long time, but showed back up to the area of Israel May 14th, 1948. 

We know this new temple will appear during the Great Tribulation.  We know the “the prince who is to come” (the Antichrist) will eventually show up in this Third Temple, and stop the sacrifices there:

Daniel 9:27 (NLT) The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.”

I asked, where will the anti-christ sit and proclaim himself God? 

2 Thessalonians 2 3-4 (NLT)  3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.

They will finish building the Third Temple, and prophecy will be fulfilled. 

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, Sparks said:

They have not been building the Altar and interior parts for a very long

My statement was about "preparing", as in utensils etc. for rituals. Where will it be built? 

 

2 hours ago, Sparks said:

We know this new temple will appear during the Great Tribulation.

What about the temple described in Ezekiel? Will there then be 2 temples? Or will God destroy His temple?

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

My statement was about "preparing", as in utensils etc. for rituals. Where will it be built? 

 

What about the temple described in Ezekiel? Will there then be 2 temples? Or will God destroy His temple?

Shabbat shalom, Uriah.

If the Zionists have their way, it will be built upon its original site, ousting both the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque. Right now, the Orthodox Jews won't allow it to be built because prophecy says the Messiah will build it, but they have no love for Islam, either. When the Messiah returns, He will put it wherever He wants it!

Or will Yeshua` IMPROVE and RENOVATE it? We only know that He will build it, but we don't know if that means with what is already there or from scratch.

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Sparks said:

They have not been building the Altar and interior parts for a very long; circa 2015.  The Jews, scribes and priests departed the second temple in 70 AD and were not even around to build it for a very long time, but showed back up to the area of Israel May 14th, 1948. 

We know this new temple will appear during the Great Tribulation.  We know the “the prince who is to come” (the Antichrist) will eventually show up in this Third Temple, and stop the sacrifices there:

Daniel 9:27 (NLT) The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.”

I asked, where will the anti-christ sit and proclaim himself God? 

2 Thessalonians 2 3-4 (NLT)  3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.

They will finish building the Third Temple, and prophecy will be fulfilled. 

Shabbat shalom, Sparks.

I'm not opposed to using 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 this way, except to say that the "man of lawlessness" is the "man against the Law" or "the man against the Torah!" For some odd reason, Gentile Christians almost NEVER take into consideration the Jewish nature of a passage of Scripture! (Go figure.)

ON THE OTHER HAND, the NLT is TOTALLY OFF-BASE with its rendering of Daniel 9:27! While it's a common mistake, it is also EXTREMELY sacrilegious to say it this way! This "translation" (actually a paraphrase) is TOTALLY biased by the "translator." He (or they) have added words that are NOT in the Hebrew, and he (or they) have completely misconstrued what Gavri'eel ("Gabriel") was saying to Daaniy'eel ("Daniel")!

First, look at the English grammar of verse 26:

Daniel 9:26 (KJV)

26 "And after threescore and two (3x20+2 = 62) weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

26 ("And) conjunction (after) preposition (threescore) adjective (and) conjunction (two) adjective (weeks) object-of-preposition (shall) helping-verb (Messiah) SINGULAR-SUBJECT (be) helping-verb (cut) verb (off) adverb (, but) conjunction (not) negative-particle (for) preposition (himself) object-of-preposition (: and) conjunction (the) definite-article (people) PLURAL-SUBJECT (of) preposition (the) definite-article (prince) object-of-preposition (that) relative-pronoun, introducing a subordinate clause (shall) helping-verb (come) verb, end of clause (shall) helping-verb (destroy) verb (the) definite-article (city) direct-object (and) conjunction (the) definite-article (sanctuary) direct-object (; and) conjunction (the) definite-article (end) SUBJECT (thereof) adjective, built from a prepositional phrase (shall) helping-verb (be) verb (with) preposition (a) indefinite-article (flood) object-of-preposition (, and) conjunction (unto) preposition (the) definite-article (end) object-of-preposition (of) preposition (the) definite-article (war) object-of-preposition (desolations) direct-object (are) helping-verb (determined.") reflexive-verb.

Now, look at the Hebrew:

26
וְאַחֲרֵ֤י הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין לֹ֑ו וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֤יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצֹּ֣ו בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹׁמֵמֹֽות׃

Transliterated into English lettering, this looks like:

26 "V'achareey hashshaaVu`iym shishshiym uwshnayim yikkaareet maashiyach v'eeyn low vhaa`iyr vchaqqodesh yashchiyt `am naagiyd habaa' vqitstsow bashsheTef v`ad qeets milchaamaah necheretset shimeemowt:"

A word-for-word translation would be:

26 "And-after the-Weeks sixty and-two shall-be-cut-off Messiah but-not to/for-him(self) and-the-city and-the-sanctuary shall-destroy a-people of-a-prince the-comer and-its-end in-a-flood and-until an-end of-a-war are-determined desolations:"

Now, in Hebrew, two nouns back-to-back are called a noun construct state. The first noun - the more important noun - can participate in a Hebrew sentence as the subject or a direct-object. The second noun is treated as a modifier of the first noun, and cannot participate in the Hebrew sentence pattern. In translation into English, the word "of" is usually put between the two, forcing the second noun to be considered the object of the preposition "of." An example is "ben Daviyd," translated "son OF David."

That is what is going on with the two nouns "`am naagiyd," "people OF a-prince." Thus, within the sentence, the word "naagiyd" cannot participate in the Hebrew sentence pattern.

The problem is that verse 27 HAS NO SUBJECT! It's a continuation of the same sentence pattern! The pronouns "he" which are used in translation is because the verbs in Hebrew carry number and gender, as nouns and adjectives do. To find the antecedent of the "he" in verse 27, one must go back to a previous noun that has the same number and gender. HOWEVER - and this is the kicker - that noun must be able to participate in the Hebrew sentence pattern! "Naagiyd" cannot! Therefore, we must go back a little farther to the NEXT singular, masculine word "maashiyach" or "Messiah." THIS was the subject, and it is the antecedent for the THREE VERBS of verse 27!

So, in verse 27, we have three activities, usually assigned to the "prince that shall come," which should be assigned rather to the "Messiah!" Now, to look at these verbs in context, one must use at least an English translation that is a word-for-word translation, and not one that is already biased. Here are two:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 "And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Daniel 9:27 (NASB)

27 "And he (the Messiah) will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (the Messiah) will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come the one (the Messiah) who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who ***** (is made) desolate.”

27
וְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָרַבִּ֖ים שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד וַחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ יַשְׁבִּ֣ית ׀ זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֤ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שֹׁמֵֽם׃ פ

Transliterated,

27 "Vhigbiyr briyt laarabiyt shaaVuwa` 'echaad vachatsiy hashaaVuwa` yashbiyt | zeVach uwminchaah v`al knaf shiqquwtsiym mshomeem v`ad-kaalaah vnecheraatsaah tittakh `al-shomeem: P"

Translated word-for-word:

27 "And-he-shall-confirm/strengthen a-covenant to/for-many a-Week one but-in-middle 0f-the-Week he-shall-bring-an-end-to | sacrifice and-offering/gift and-upon a-spreadout-wing of-abominations with-desolation/shall-be-one-who-makes-desolate and-unto a-consumption and-that-which-is-determined is-poured-out upon-desolated: (end-of-sentence)"

Note: There's a little bias going on in the NASB, too, because the translator ASSUMED that the one causing the desolation would be the one destroyed. However, the "makes" should be changed to "is made," because the wording is "`al-shomeem" or "upon desolated."