what needs to happen for the end times to arrive ?

[Sparks]

38 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Sparks.

I'm not opposed to using 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 this way, except to say that the "man of lawlessness" is the "man against the Law" or "the man against the Torah!" For some odd reason, Gentile Christians almost NEVER take into consideration the Jewish nature of a passage of Scripture! (Go figure.)

ON THE OTHER HAND, the NLT is TOTALLY OFF-BASE with its rendering of Daniel 9:27! While it's a common mistake, it is also EXTREMELY sacrilegious to say it this way! This "translation" (actually a paraphrase) is TOTALLY biased by the "translator." He (or they) have added words that are NOT in the Hebrew, and he (or they) have completely misconstrued what Gavri'eel ("Gabriel") was saying to Daaniy'eel ("Daniel")!

First, look at the English grammar of verse 26:

Daniel 9:26 (KJV)

26 "And after threescore and two (3x20+2 = 62) weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

26 ("And) conjunction (after) preposition (threescore) adjective (and) conjunction (two) adjective (weeks) object-of-preposition (shall) helping-verb (Messiah) SINGULAR-SUBJECT (be) helping-verb (cut) verb (off) adverb (, but) conjunction (not) negative-particle (for) preposition (himself) object-of-preposition (: and) conjunction (the) definite-article (people) PLURAL-SUBJECT (of) preposition (the) definite-article (prince) object-of-preposition (that) relative-pronoun, introducing a subordinate clause (shall) helping-verb (come) verb, end of clause (shall) helping-verb (destroy) verb (the) definite-article (city) direct-object (and) conjunction (the) definite-article (sanctuary) direct-object (; and) conjunction (the) definite-article (end) SUBJECT (thereof) adjective, built from a prepositional phrase (shall) helping-verb (be) verb (with) preposition (a) indefinite-article (flood) object-of-preposition (, and) conjunction (unto) preposition (the) definite-article (end) object-of-preposition (of) preposition (the) definite-article (war) object-of-preposition (desolations) direct-object (are) helping-verb (determined.") reflexive-verb.

Now, look at the Hebrew:

26
וְאַחֲרֵ֤י הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין לֹ֑ו וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֤יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצֹּ֣ו בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹׁמֵמֹֽות׃

Transliterated into English lettering, this looks like:

26 "V'achareey hashshaaVu`iym shishshiym uwshnayim yikkaareet maashiyach v'eeyn low vhaa`iyr vchaqqodesh yashchiyt `am naagiyd habaa' vqitstsow bashsheTef v`ad qeets milchaamaah necheretset shimeemowt:"

A word-for-word translation would be:

26 "And-after the-Weeks sixty and-two shall-be-cut-off Messiah but-not to/for-him(self) and-the-city and-the-sanctuary shall-destroy a-people of-a-prince the-comer and-its-end in-a-flood and-until an-end of-a-war are-determined desolations:"

Now, in Hebrew, two nouns back-to-back are called a noun construct state. The first noun - the more important noun - can participate in a Hebrew sentence as the subject or a direct-object. The second noun is treated as a modifier of the first noun, and cannot participate in the Hebrew sentence pattern. In translation into English, the word "of" is usually put between the two, forcing the second noun to be considered the object of the preposition "of." An example is "ben Daviyd," translated "son OF David."

That is what is going on with the two nouns "`am naagiyd," "people OF a-prince." Thus, within the sentence, the word "naagiyd" cannot participate in the Hebrew sentence pattern.

The problem is that verse 27 HAS NO SUBJECT! It's a continuation of the same sentence pattern! The pronouns "he" which are used in translation is because the verbs in Hebrew carry number and gender, as nouns and adjectives do. To find the antecedent of the "he" in verse 27, one must go back to a previous noun that has the same number and gender. HOWEVER - and this is the kicker - that noun must be able to participate in the Hebrew sentence pattern! "Naagiyd" cannot! Therefore, we must go back a little farther to the NEXT singular, masculine word "maashiyach" or "Messiah." THIS was the subject, and it is the antecedent for the THREE VERBS of verse 27!

So, in verse 27, we have three activities, usually assigned to the "prince that shall come," which should be assigned rather to the "Messiah!" Now, to look at these verbs in context, one must use at least an English translation that is a word-for-word translation, and not one that is already biased. Here are two:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 "And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Daniel 9:27 (NASB)

27 "And he (the Messiah) will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (the Messiah) will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come the one (the Messiah) who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who ***** (is made) desolate.”

27
וְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָרַבִּ֖ים שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד וַחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ יַשְׁבִּ֣ית ׀ זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֤ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שֹׁמֵֽם׃ פ

Transliterated,

27 "Vhigbiyr briyt laarabiyt shaaVuwa` 'echaad vachatsiy hashaaVuwa` yashbiyt | zeVach uwminchaah v`al knaf shiqquwtsiym mshomeem v`ad-kaalaah vnecheraatsaah tittakh `al-shomeem: P"

Translated word-for-word:

27 "And-he-shall-confirm/strengthen a-covenant to/for-many a-Week one but-in-middle 0f-the-Week he-shall-bring-an-end-to | sacrifice and-offering/gift and-upon a-spreadout-wing of-abominations with-desolation/shall-be-one-who-makes-desolate and-unto a-consumption and-that-which-is-determined is-poured-out upon-desolated: (end-of-sentence)"

Note: There's a little bias going on in the NASB, too, because the translator ASSUMED that the one causing the desolation would be the one destroyed. However, the "makes" should be changed to "is made," because the wording is "`al-shomeem" or "upon desolated."

Daniel 27 (KJV) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Above is Daniel from the King James, without the parenthetical misinterpretations added speaking of the anti-christ, not the Messiah.  

Thanks for your post.

[Sparks]

8 hours ago, Uriah said:

My statement was about "preparing", as in utensils etc. for rituals. Where will it be built?  What about the temple described in Ezekiel? Will there then be 2 temples? Or will God destroy His temple?

There have already been 2 temples; the first built by Solomon which was destroyed in 586 BC by Nebuchadnezzar, and the Second Temple was built after the return from Babylonian captivity and stood from 516 BC until 70 AD, and was destroyed by the Romans.

The Third Temple is yet to be built though they have now found in recent years, the red heifer, their Levitican Priest, the sacrificial lambs have returned to the land, they have built the altar and utensils, and they have even made the dedication to their altar in 2018 through the UN.  The nascent Sanhedrin invited 70 nations to attend that event. 

The only thing really stopping the Jews from completing the Third Temple is the politics of dealing with the nearby Arabs, and the finding the actual location of the Second and First Temples.  The Jews will build the Third Temple right on the spot where the first two temples sat.   If they do find the location of the prior temples, they could just pitch a tent and start sacrificing right then, as they build the more permanent temple structure.  These days, with prefabrication, they could get the Third Temple up and running, quickly. 

[Alive]

We could also recall that Herod's temple was a restoration and expansion of the second temple. He expanded it to meet similar footprint of Solomon's.

[Uriah]

Can we all agree that no blaspheming gentile, or even cameras would be allowed into the temple of God?

 

[Alive]

15 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Interesting. There are a group of " ultra conservative" Jews that are totally against Israel being a nation at this time. They argue that GOD Himself will tell the Jews when to return to Israel. And as a chosen in Christ non-jew, I agree with them, as  I am waiting to return to the land of Israel.... spiritually speaking of course....( new Jerusalem). 

I'm pretty sure the Temple Christ is building is made up of living stones---His sons and a Kingdom of Priests.

[Sparks]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

I'm pretty sure the Temple Christ is building is made up of living stones---His sons and a Kingdom of Priests.

I guess you might get on the horn with the Jews working on the physical Third Temple, and tell them they have it all wrong. 

[Alive]

12 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I guess you might get on the horn with the Jews working on the physical Third Temple, and tell them they have it all wrong. 

Ya--not sure I'd get an audience. I do intend to repair my deck, though.

[Sparks]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

Ya--not sure I'd get an audience. I do intend to repair my deck, though.

I figured you could write up one of those memes that says, "You had just one job, an imaginary and symbolic Third Temple!"  And then show a picture of the fully realized Third Temple they built, with fires blazing and sacrifices rolling. 

Well, one day when the the Third Temple is fully built.

[Retrobyter]

9 hours ago, Sparks said:

Daniel 27 (KJV) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Above is Daniel from the King James, without the parenthetical misinterpretations added speaking of the anti-christ, not the Messiah.  

Thanks for your post.

Shabbat shalom, Sparks.

That's what I'm trying to tell you! It is NOT speaking of the "antichrist" or rather the "beast" or "the man against the Torah"; it is about the MESSIAH! Now, hear me out:

The first words were ...

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Here's the DAVIDIC Covenant:

2 Samuel 7:4-17 (KJV)

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 

5 "Go and tell my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?"'

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies."' 

"'Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 

12 "'"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'" 

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

YESHUA` the Messiah is the one who "strenthened the covenant with many" - the DAVIDIC Covenant! Ironically, it was the same Gavri'eel ("Gabriel") who spoke to Miryam ("Mary"):

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

The second set of words were ...

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Here is how these words were fulfilled:

After three and a half years (1/2 Week), the Messiah was rejected, and His offer of the Kingdom was repealed for a future generation. Then, the Messiah = the Anointed to be King was crucified, buried, rose again, and left the earth. In the process of being crucified, His death accomplished much:

Matthew 27:45-54 (KJV)

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,

"Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?"

that is to say,

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said,

"This man calleth for Elias!"

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink. 49 The rest said,

"Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him!"

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying,

"Truly this was the Son of God!"

This is fulfilled according to the author of Hebrews:

Hebrews 10:1-22 (KJV)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, THERE IS NO MORE OFFERING FOR SIN.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

The third set of words were ...

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation

This was fulfilled in Matthew 23:1-39. The first 36 verses were a diatribe against the scribes and the Pharisees, and then we read,

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.'"

The last set of words have been being fulfilled since the First Century, and will continue to be fulfilled UNTIL the Messiah returns!

that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The children of Israel, particularly the Jews (the children of Judah), have been persecuted in the persecutions of Rome, the Inquisitions, the Crusades, the Pogroms, the Holocaust, the Islamic terrorism, the missile attacks from the Gaza Strip and from Syria and Lebanon, etc., etc., etc.

So, one does NOT get "the antichrist" from Daniel 9!

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, Alive said:

I'm pretty sure the Temple Christ is building is made up of living stones---His sons and a Kingdom of Priests.

Shalom, Alive.

That's not a Temple; that's a pyramid! Yeshua` is "the head stone of the corner!" He's the CAPSTONE, the "chief (head) cornerstone!" They are built upon "the foundation of the prophets and apostles."