The Sower - misunderstood

[Waggles]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

One is the "Gospel of GRACE"
One is the "Gospel of the Kingdom"

One is by FAITH and is FREE
One is by proving that you will faithfully MANAGE the Lord's affairs

One removes the DEATH PENALTY
One elevates the man to HEIR

I think you have lost the point of your thread, your topic - The parable of the sower.

This parable is about the manner to which people would respond to the gospel and embrace discipleship.

[DPMartin]

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Thank you for your reply. It was not addressed to me but the reference to Darby kinda includes me. In your argument above you affirmed that the Kingdom was within the Pharisees. Do you really think so? A kingdom is a sphere or area belonging to a resident king who exercises his authority over that area.

 

 

why are you blatantly lying about what i posted?

No, i didn't say the kingdom of God was in the pharisees, you did. Why don’t you read the text for yourself. Its simple wherever God is, His Presence, that would be Heaven seeing God is in Heaven.

Edited September 9, 2022 by DPMartin

[Dan Knight]

2 minutes ago, DPMartin said:

No, i didn't say the kingdom of God was in the pharisees, you did. Why don’t you read the text for yourself. Its simple wherever God is, His Presence, that would be Heaven seeing God is in Heaven.

So are you saying that there is no literal kingdom of heaven? A place not on earth?

When USA troops are in a foreign country,  they can say to the citizens of that foreign country that the government,  kingdom , of the USA is among you, in your midst,  ect.

[Dan Knight]

32 minutes ago, DPMartin said:

why are you blatantly lying about what i posted?

No, i didn't say the kingdom of God was in the pharisees, you did. Why don’t you read the text for yourself. Its simple wherever God is, His Presence, that would be Heaven seeing God is in Heaven.

Na, sorry but your missing the point. ..the Greek word is entos, it means In the midst, among.

And I would strongly advise against accusing anyone,  especially a Christian,  of being  a liar. Even if you believe that is the case, the first step to take is to confront the individual privately.  Try to help him out of the supposed sin of lying. If no results, THEN take his case to the church, or gathering,  of God's children, as this forum is.  

We must be very careful about what we say about each other. Where 2 or more are gathered in His name, Jesus is also present. 

AdHoc knows he ain't lying, and he is protected from the harm of false accusations by the shield of faith. Faith in what God says he is, and he ain't no liar. He believes God knows that. Be cautious. HE IS HERE NOW.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Dan Knight

[AdHoc]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Great AdHoc,

Now I seem to remember you say that Jesus will rule physically on the earth. Do you mean that will be His seat of power over the angels, and the universe?

Marilyn.

No. The Lord will rule the universe separately from heaven. As this has little to do with the earth, little is said. The scriptures say that all things are made FOR Him and By Him. Heaven is His throne. The issue of the Bible is mainly the Earth. For the Earth, the "Son of man" will rule from Jerusalem.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (Mt 25:31)

It is clear that angels will be present on earth during the Millennium and after because they are "servants". They will have a number of duties, and their performance will be judged by the co-kings of Christ (1st Cor.6:3). But the kingship of the earth is not given to angels (Heb.2:5). God has ordained MAN to rule the earth.

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Waggles said:

I think you have lost the point of your thread, your topic - The parable of the sower.

This parable is about the manner to which people would respond to the gospel and embrace discipleship.

In my OP I predicted that the bulk of Christianity regard the parable of the Sower as addressing salvation. True to my prediction some answered this way. To put forward my counter arguments is perfectly in keeping with the said theme.

I agree with your last statement, but put it in other words. So let me say them again. The parables of Matthew 13 show the development of Christ's Kingdom while it is being prepared in this age. It is a Kingdom in MYSTERY. The persons who lost the seed by the wayside are Christians. The word of the Kingdom was written in their hearts. They did not reject the word of the Kingdom like Israel did. It was taken in. But they lost it. they did not reject salvation. They embraced it but did not UNDERSTAND it. The energetic debate  shows that on this Forum there are some who do not, or did not understand the kingdom.

The energetic debate is a good thing.

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, DPMartin said:

why are you blatantly lying about what i posted?

No, i didn't say the kingdom of God was in the pharisees, you did. Why don’t you read the text for yourself. Its simple wherever God is, His Presence, that would be Heaven seeing God is in Heaven.

I put forward an argument which you rejected out of hand. If you do that it can be construed as supporting the original. Instead of entering into the grammar and meaning of the Greek to correct me, you painted my reference, brother Darby's translation, as wanting. My next posting will obviously defend my previous. That is why we are on this Forum.

I would dearly appreciate your counter argument - if you have one. Painting Mr. Darby as aligned with the JWs is a good tactic, but it does not clear up whether the kingdom was WITHIN the Pharisees or "AMONG" them.

But if you have changed your mind and agree with me now, I rejoice. I've had to change my mind many times so I know about it. If you haven't changed your mind, why, lets continue to debate. Your turn now.

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Dan Knight said:

Na, sorry but your missing the point. ..the Greek word is entos, it means In the midst, among.

And I would strongly advise against accusing anyone,  especially a Christian,  of being  a liar. Even if you believe that is the case, the first step to take is to confront the individual privately.  Try to help him out of the supposed sin of lying. If no results, THEN take his case to the church, or gathering,  of God's children, as this forum is.  

We must be very careful about what we say about each other. Where 2 or more are gathered in His name, Jesus is also present. 

AdHoc knows he ain't lying, and he is protected from the harm of false accusations by the shield of faith. Faith in what God says he is, and he ain't no liar. He believes God knows that. Be cautious. HE IS HERE NOW.

Thank you for your very measured answer. In retrospect it could be that that I was too comprehensive with my answer. I take no offense at the accusation. I repent if I am found offending a brother. May the Lord give me gracious words in counter argument.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, AdHoc said:

No. The Lord will rule the universe separately from heaven. As this has little to do with the earth, little is said. The scriptures say that all things are made FOR Him and By Him. Heaven is His throne. The issue of the Bible is mainly the Earth. For the Earth, the "Son of man" will rule from Jerusalem.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (Mt 25:31)

It is clear that angels will be present on earth during the Millennium and after because they are "servants". They will have a number of duties, and their performance will be judged by the co-kings of Christ (1st Cor.6:3). But the kingship of the earth is not given to angels (Heb.2:5). God has ordained MAN to rule the earth.

I agree that man is for the earth and heaven is the Lord`s throne. However the believer in the Body of Christ will be changed to like the Lord with a heavenly body suited for the highest heaven. (1 Cor. 15: 48)

Now when the Lord comes with His mighty angels it is with His heavenly authority from His own throne that the Father gave to Him. (Rev. 3: 21)

No one on earth will have given the Lord that authority it is of the highest. When He has delivered Israel and judged the rebellious the Lord will return to His throne on high, (Ps. 47: 5) where He will rule and reign with His Body. (Rev. 3: 21)  

We will NOT be of the earth but of the heavenly to rule in the highest. 

Those who will rule ON the earth is the nation of Israel. And those of the nations under them are the great multitude from the trib, and others who are judged by their works who operated according to their God given conscience. (These are those who never heard of Christ and His sacrifice.)

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I agree that man is for the earth and heaven is the Lord`s throne. However the believer in the Body of Christ will be changed to like the Lord with a heavenly body suited for the highest heaven. (1 Cor. 15: 48)

Now when the Lord comes with His mighty angels it is with His heavenly authority from His own throne that the Father gave to Him. (Rev. 3: 21)

No one on earth will have given the Lord that authority it is of the highest. When He has delivered Israel and judged the rebellious the Lord will return to His throne on high, (Ps. 47: 5) where He will rule and reign with His Body. (Rev. 3: 21)  

We will NOT be of the earth but of the heavenly to rule in the highest. 

Those who will rule ON the earth is the nation of Israel. And those of the nations under them are the great multitude from the trib, and others who are judged by their works who operated according to their God given conscience. (These are those who never heard of Christ and His sacrifice.)

I appreciate that you have set your heart and mind on being in heaven. 95% of the rest of Christianity have too. But for such a doctrine, you should have a mound of evidence, AND there should not be anything to indicate otherwise. Yet the whole Bible is full of God's recovery of man FOR RULING from the earth. And in plain and unambiguous language, in Matthew 21:43 Israel is BARRED from ruing. Another people are to be raised up for this purpose. I propose, in the friendliest way possible that the scriptures you produced above do not say that Christians will be transported to heaven and reign from there. 

1st Corinthians 15:48 gives the NATURE of the second Adam - not His position.

"Heavenly" is a description not a position. The whole context is one of NATURE not position.

Psalm 47 is written for Israel. It concerns the Nations surrounding them. The son's of Korah's "inheritance" is Canaan.

Revelation 3:21 does not give the geographical position of Christ's Throne. However, Matthew 25:31-32 does - ON EARTH (unless of course "ALL Nations" are transported to heaven.

The New Jerusalem, which is the Tabernacle of God is on the earth

God's plan was that man "fill" or "replenish" the earth

Jesus will return after His sojourn in heaven. There is no evidence of Him going back to heaven.

For the whole messianic age the survivors of Armageddon will go up to Jerusalem to worship Him annually (Zech.14:16)

To Israel, who you admit are on earth, Jesus is called "Emmanuel" - "God WITH us"

And so on ...