Ask Me Anything About Christianity

[kwikphilly]

11 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

I don't have a dog in this discussion but I will point out that Ha Satan is an agent of G-d, therefore the one does not contradict the other.

I agree....Hi Slibhin😀

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

I am not saying God's word ever contradicts its self.  Often its our faulty understand and other times is just a mis-translation.  This is why I study different bibical text and translations to get the true meaning.

I somewhat agree with your interpretation between the two reference.   Yes, Satan is the one actually doing the inciting for David to take the census, but it was also due to God's anger with Israel and God allowed Satan to tempt David.

I am willing to discuss this matter with you, because I do not like what you said:

The emphasis is that I do not like what you said,and not what we read in the relevant scriptures at hand. 

I have not taken sides and I am not talking against anyone scholars or no scholars. 

I do an independent study from what we have at hand, that I can do and you can do it too. 

All the valiant men of David listed in chapter 23 of 2and Samuel including Joab the Captain of the army and his brother and one brother of David including those men around with him who have fought with David and had slain the Giants including the brothers of Goliath were desperately trying to stop David to count the able men in his kingdom...

They all knew something, they knew that it was against the commant of the Lord to count on numbers, they had all witness the power of the Lord that was resting upon them in the same way that it was rested upon Samson, and they fought and kill single handed the giants one by one like David and single handed they kill tens and hundreds of the Philistines like Samson..

David was the leader but he was not the only one who killed the lion and the bear and the Giant...but something had just happened to him just before that event, during the last battle he almost fainted or his lost his strength and one of the giants came forwards him to Slain him, but one of his close to him, one of the valiant men step in and kill him. David was exhausted and he would have died for sure, he was very old at that time..

This is one of the triggers and David's concern about the safety of the Kingdom..

His men told him not to come to the battle with them anymore.

It seems that David sidetrack him self for trusting in the Lord and his word, and the men he had raised around him, and moved to trust in the multitude of numbers  of able soldiers...

When the Lord had told him to trust in him. 

David later when he came to his senses took full responsibility for what he did as he did this inspite his men trying to persuade him not to do it...

And he said to the Lord , it is my sin take down why the people have to die for my sin and I have to live...

The question would be: Why the Lord did not interfere to stop him...

It's not the first time that the Lord let things happen, because he required from them their obedience...as we can see that with numerous times...

What Satan has to do with the children of God and their obedience...

In the Garden he judged Adam and Eve and the Serpant for his enticing Eve..

But hear in this situation the Lord Judged only David (Adam) for his disobedience and not anyone else of his valiant men (Eve, figuratively) who were telling David you have us and the Lord, do not be afraid, do not do it...

And the Lord did not Judged the Devil because he had nothing to do with it...

In the Garden he did because he had enticed Eve....the equation is David did not bring anyone else in the picture , he said it was only him that excluded his men whom he send to do the counting and the Lord agree..... the Devil was never mention by God or David only by people who later on wanted to preserved David's image and they blame the Devil... good for them the people like to have an excuse for David and not to blame him for the death of those who died in the plague when David said I am responsible for their death, it is my fault, take me, give the punishment I deserve, which was death for my disobedience...and the Lord did something at that time....

 

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

52 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

I don't have a dog in this discussion but I will point out that Ha Satan is an agent of G-d, therefore the one does not contradict the other.

I strongly disagree, and I good reasons why..if you are willing and how can you prove your point...that Herod slaughtering thousands of infants it is because he was an agent from God working in partnership with God or in partnership with the Satan or the Devil or the great Serpent. 

The great Serpent was the one who seek to kill the Christ so avoid his Judgment on the Cross...and to get to keep all the people who were in his keep by DEFAULT because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve the first couple...

Abraham was not excluded. 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am willing to discuss this matter with you, because I do not like what you said:

The emphasis is that I do not like what you said,and not what we read in the relevant scriptures at hand. 

I have not taken sides and I am not talking against anyone scholars or no scholars. 

I do an independent study from what we have at hand, that I can do and you can do it too. 

All the valiant men of David listed in chapter 23 of 2and Samuel including Joab the Captain of the army and his brother and one brother of David including those men around with him who have fought with David and had slain the Giants including the brothers of Goliath were desperately trying to stop David to count the able men in his kingdom...

They all knew something, they knew that it was against the commant of the Lord to count on numbers, they had all witness the power of the Lord that was resting upon them in the same way that it was rested upon Samson, and they fought and kill single handed the giants one by one like David and single handed they kill tens and hundreds of the Philistines like Samson..

David was the leader but he was not the only one who killed the lion and the bear and the Giant...but something had just happened to him just before that event, during the last battle he almost fainted or his lost his strength and one of the giants came forwards him to Slain him, but one of his close to him, one of the valiant men step in and kill him. David was exhausted and he would have died for sure, he was very old at that time..

This is one of the triggers and David's concern about the safety of the Kingdom..

His men told him not to come to the battle with them anymore.

It seems that David sidetrack him self for trusting in the Lord and his word, and the men he had raised around him, and moved to trust in the multitude of numbers  of able soldiers...

When the Lord had told him to trust in him. 

David later when he came to his senses took full responsibility for what he did as he did this inspite his men trying to persuade him not to do it...

And he said to the Lord , it is my sin take down why the people have to die for my sin and I have to live...

The question would be: Why the Lord did not interfere to stop him...

It's not the first time that the Lord let things happen, because he required from them their obedience...as we can see that with numerous times...

What Satan has to do with the children of God and their obedience...

In the Garden he judged Adam and Eve and the Serpant for his enticing Eve..

But hear in this situation the Lord Judged only David (Adam) for his disobedience and not anyone else of his valiant men (Eve, figuratively) who were telling David you have us and the Lord, do not be afraid, do not do it...

And the Lord did not Judged the Devil because he had nothing to do with it...

In the Garden he did because he had enticed Eve....the equation is David did not bring anyone else in the picture , he said it was only him that excluded his men whom he send to do the counting and the Lord agree..... the Devil was never mention by God or David only by people who later on wanted to preserved David's image and they blame the Devil... good for them the people like to have an excuse for David and not to blame him for the death of those who died in the plague when David said I am responsible for their death, it is my fault, take me, give the punishment I deserve, which was death for my disobedience...and the Lord did something at that time....

So what is that you did not like about what I said???

[Your closest friendnt]

1 minute ago, Slibhin said:

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Someone asked about a contradiction in the Tanakh and I merely responded how it isn't. Other than that I have no stake in this discussion.

Neither the Lord Nor Satan had anything to do with it...

And not the men who carried the orders and were send to count the people, who they had tried unsuccessfully to persuade David not to doing..

David admitted that it was only his fault and no ones else, definitely no the men whom he sent to count the people who had tried to stop David to do it.

The Lord agreed with David when David did not blamed anyone for trying to entice him, he said it was only my own thinking and doing it for the reasons he did it, the Lord agreed to David for acting alone...

Adam and Eve did not blamed the Lord God for what they did, but Adam blamed Eve for being the one to eat from the fruit and Eve blamed the Serpent for enticing her...for that the Serpent was judged...

Here the Lord did not Judge the Satan, Satan was not even mentioned, Nor David blamed the Lord for enticing him. 

[kwikphilly]

15 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Neither the Lord Nor Satan had anything to do with it...

And not the men who carried the orders and were send to count the people, who they had tried unsuccessfully to persuade David not to doing..

David admitted that it was only his fault and no ones else, definitely no the men whom he sent to count the people who had tried to stop David to do it.

The Lord agreed with David when David did not blamed anyone for trying to entice him, he said it was only my own thinking and doing it for the reasons he did it, the Lord agreed to David for acting alone...

Adam and Eve did not blamed the Lord God for what they did, but Adam blamed Eve for being the one to eat from the fruit and Eve blamed the Serpent for enticing her...for that the Serpent was judged...

Here the Lord did not Judge the Satan, Satan was not even mentioned, Nor David blamed the Lord for enticing him. 

Brother,

Satan is mentioned,we have quoted the verse from 1 Chronicles several times here ...

Also,God Was Angered against Israel and David's sin likely made matters worse - yet,God was Gracious & Merciful to hear David's plea and gave David options,leaving him to decide the punishment for his sin.... David was Willing to step in for his people( sound familiar?)

With love in Christ, Kwik

[Your closest friendnt]

34 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

So what is that you did not like about what I said???

You said the following that it is one or the other, one version says this and the other version says that.

And then you are asking "EXPLAIN THAT". 

And then you posted the different versions...and you did well to post the different versions to show that.

**** and this is what I said that I disagree that it maybe this or the other...

Because is not the Lord who said that about David, it is the one who recorded the events...and he did not quote David saying that someone enticed him to do what he did in the way Eve was enticed by the Serpent...

To repeat David never said he was enticed by anyone and the Lord never said that Satan enticed David...

And the fact that the Lord was punishing the people it was David's choice, his decision from one of the three...

Afterwards David said to the Lord : why people are punished for what I did...

And the Lord accepted that...no one else was to blame but David himself...

Because that's what was written it does not mean that what it happens...

The fact that there is not agreement in the text about this matter it shows that the Lord did not say either one of them...if not the argument would be said..

And I went further to sow cause why neither one of the two suggestions on your posts applies...

Do you have anything to say about that? 

[Your closest friendnt]

20 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Brother,

Satan is mentioned,we have quoted the verse from 1 Chronicles several times here ...

Also,God Was Angered against Israel and David's sin likely made matters worse - yet,God was Gracious & Merciful to hear David's plea and gave David options,leaving him to decide the punishment for his sin.... David was Willing to step in for his people( sound familiar?)

With love in Christ, Kwik

I took my time to show that I know what one and what the other text that was written as both narratives claimed something to the contrary. 

This is a fact Jedi4Y... has posted the relevant verses to show that and he has not be corrected by anyone...

But also the fact is, or the question is or both...who is the author of that that statement at hand? We should not turn our back to that question...

From what is written in the text neither of the two positions are supported, as it written down , one is saying that the Lord God Almighty had something to do with that or Satan had something to do with what David's decision...and from the totality of what it is written down in that chapter we gather that it was neither Satan nor the Lord who had influence David and neither were his men who tried to stop him...

So the authors wrote something without being possible to know...David never encourage them to put that down..either one, the authors never said that David's testimony it was one of the positions taken by the authors ...and the authors are not in a position to know...they wrote down what they thought they should write...God did not asked them to write that down ..that was never claimed by  any one for this specific matter...

Neither God or the Devil had directly something to do with God, they only thing that may be suggested the Lord knew what will happen and was waiting for that to happen and that's why he gave David the three options without including the option that gives David the option to take the responsibility for his own decision...when David did that, he did that with his own initiative...

And the result was, just consider what the result was and how it ended...that the Lord established the Location of where the Temple will be built, and the location to where he will shed his blood and that is Jerusalem.  

[Jedi4Yahweh]

9 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I took my time to show that I know what one and what the other text that was written as both narratives claimed something to the contrary. 

This is a fact Jedi4Y... has posted the relevant verses to show that and he has not be corrected by anyone...

But also the fact is, or the question is or both...who is the author of that that statement at hand? We should not turn our back to that question...

From what is written in the text neither of the two positions are supported, as it written down , one is saying that the Lord God Almighty had something to do with that or Satan had something to do with what David's decision...and from the totality of what it is written down in that chapter we gather that it was neither Satan nor the Lord who had influence David and neither were his men who tried to stop him...

So the authors wrote something without being possible to know...David never encourage them to put that down..either one, the authors never said that David's testimony it was one of the positions taken by the authors ...and the authors are not in a position to know...they wrote down what they thought they should write...God did not asked them to write that down ..that was never claimed by  any one for this specific matter...

Neither God or the Devil had directly something to do with God, they only thing that may be suggested the Lord knew what will happen and was waiting for that to happen and that's why he gave David the three options without including the option that gives David the option to take the responsibility for his own decision...when David did that, he did that with his own initiative...

And the result was, just consider what the result was and how it ended...that the Lord established the Location of where the Temple will be built, and the location to where he will shed his blood and that is Jerusalem.  

I think your getting into the weeds here.  Yes, ultimately it is our fault when we sin no matter who is doing the enticing.  David took responsibility for HIS sin even though the scriptures clearly says Satan enticed him.  

Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. - Jas 1:12-15 KJV

[kwikphilly]

18 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I took my time to show that I know what one and what the other text that was written as both narratives claimed something to the contrary. 

This is a fact Jedi4Y... has posted the relevant verses to show that and he has not be corrected by anyone...

But also the fact is, or the question is or both...who is the author of that that statement at hand? We should not turn our back to that question...

From what is written in the text neither of the two positions are supported, as it written down , one is saying that the Lord God Almighty had something to do with that or Satan had something to do with what David's decision...and from the totality of what it is written down in that chapter we gather that it was neither Satan nor the Lord who had influence David and neither were his men who tried to stop him...

So the authors wrote something without being possible to know...David never encourage them to put that down..either one, the authors never said that David's testimony it was one of the positions taken by the authors ...and the authors are not in a position to know...they wrote down what they thought they should write...God did not asked them to write that down ..that was never claimed by  any one for this specific matter...

Neither God or the Devil had directly something to do with God, they only thing that may be suggested the Lord knew what will happen and was waiting for that to happen and that's why he gave David the three options without including the option that gives David the option to take the responsibility for his own decision...when David did that, he did that with his own initiative...

And the result was, just consider what the result was and how it ended...that the Lord established the Location of where the Temple will be built, and the location to where he will shed his blood and that is Jerusalem.  

Blessings Friendt 

I disagree.... And I will not,cannot consider any " authors" as all Scripture is God Breathed,Inspired Word

If you perceive something contrary in those comparitive Scriptures I am not here to try to convince you otherwise,I have stated to Jedi how I see no contradict - in that he concurred,we did not agree 100 percent on all our opinions but certainly that there is no contradiction

That's all,there are many people that hold to the notion that it was Davids own mind. ..  I believe in that occasion his mind was a battlefield ,God Does not tempt though He most Certainly allows satan to do so- my 2 cents

With love in Christ, Kwik