Ask Me Anything About Christianity

[Dan Knight]

5 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

The truth is the greatest enemy of the State. ~ unknown

 Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge

[Starise]

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

believe the saved dead are resurrected on the last day when Christ  returns by 'the spirit' without body being returned from heaven and the body without a spirit rising up from hell and the two joining up together AGAIN where they become an eternal glorious living soul once again.  x12 billion or so?? 

Yes lots of people believe this. No this never had a plausible explanation, and in order to explain it we essentially need two resurrections for believers. One immediately at death where a 'soul' goes to heaven while the body still lays in the grave and the second resurrection of the new bodies of these people later on. 

If we were resurrected the first time at death and are in heaven in complete bodies none of the second resurrection would be necessary. Those who hold this view say the 'soul' goes to 'heaven' and then our souls COME BACK to get those old bodies which the Lord remakes into new eternal bodies. 

Probably a more accurate interpretation is, the souls of  saved believers are with the Lord at death in a way and in a state we don't completely understand in a holding pattern until the competed state. This happens when the Lord returns and those old corrupt bodies are raised again into new bodies. It would be much less appealing to say the old bodies AND what we call a soul is at rest until resurrection. Not as appealing but probably closer to accurate. 

Not to confuse the resurrection of believers with the resurrection of the unsaved lost, who as I understand it, won't be revived until at least 1000 years later for judgment. There really are two resurrections. They don't all come forth at the same time. One for the saved and one for the condemned.

The body of a Christian that was "sown in corruption" will be raised new. I don't see a conflict here. God has decided to use the old bodies to remake the new ones. It is a mystery. We are NOT to be in corruption, however we will all be sown in corruption if we die before the Lord returns. We don't exist in corruption. When we exist again we will have perfect bodies. Jesus described Lazarus as sleeping.

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Starise

[Starise]

6 hours ago, Dan Knight said:

I would think that Adam nor Eve had belly buttons.

I lean the same way on this but maybe, just maybe God liked the way they look and added them anyways. Who knows? 

[Dan Knight]

20 minutes ago, Starise said:

I lean the same way on this but maybe, just maybe God liked the way they look and added them anyways. Who knows? 

Who knows...?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

If we were resurrected the first time at death and are in heaven in complete bodies none of the second resurrection would be necessary.

EXCEPT FOR THE DEAD.

Let's look at this as NOT JUST WORDS but the REALITY of what is going to take place.  

SATAN comes and DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD.

The time is shortened because IF it wasn't then NO FLESH would be saved.  

WHAT HAPPENS to those who take the mark of the beast?  


WHO does that leave ALIVE AND REMAINING?  Those who are taken to meet the Lord and the day of vengeance begins and for the next 1000 years 

what happens?   THERE IS NO ONE ALIVE ON THE EARTH.  

You can TRY and say the 'nations' made it but THAT ISN'T what is written.  

The words of GOD must FIRST be published to THE WHOLE WORLD.  I understand the MAIN events take place surrounding ISRAEL but THE whole world is the whole world.  To buy and sell requires WORSHIPPING some one or something OTHER than GOD


So IF THE DEAD are not resurrected, then WHO are we PRIESTS TO/FOR?

Edited October 4, 2022 by DeighAnn

[Starise]

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

EXCEPT FOR THE DEAD.

Let's look at this as NOT JUST WORDS but the REALITY of what is going to take place.  

SATAN comes and DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD.

The time is shortened because IF it wasn't then NO FLESH would be saved.  

WHAT HAPPENS to those who take the mark of the beast?  


WHO does that leave ALIVE AND REMAINING?  Those who are taken to meet the Lord and the day of vengeance begins and for the next 1000 years 

what happens?   THERE IS NO ONE ALIVE ON THE EARTH.  

You can TRY and say the 'nations' made it but THAT ISN'T what is written.  

The words of GOD must FIRST be published to THE WHOLE WORLD.  I understand the MAIN events take place surrounding ISRAEL but THE whole world is the whole world.  To buy and sell requires WORSHIPPING some one or something OTHER than GOD


So IF THE DEAD are not resurrected, then WHO are we PRIESTS TO/FOR?

So I hear you saying there ARE two groups of believers under different circumstances?

For me, when I look at theories like this there are always the straggler questions that would seem to disqualify it as a working feasible theory unless I missed something. Probably my biggest straggler question here would be, why are there still bodies in graves if the 1st group is fully resurrected? This disqualifies the theory as valid for me. I am not saying there isn't a possibility those dead in Christ are not lucid in some way, but I tend to doubt it given all of the references we have about sleep and rest.

You are basing these questions around the end time MOB etc. This takes us into some other deep study territory about the timing of these events and the millennium, for the sake of the explanation I do my best to keep things on track as to what the bible says about death and the state of believers and unbelievers at death and after. I try to simplify it according to scripture.

- Saved dead awaiting resurrection

- Saved who will be alive and not die but be transformed

-Unsaved dead who will be resurrected to be judged much later

No matter how one views the end times, the bible says what it says. Those who are here when Christ returns and alive will be taken to be with the Lord. The saved dead don't figure into end time interpretations as much because they are already dead. Whenever it happens, it happens. The will still be there dead waiting for resurrection regardless.

 

[com7fy8]

28 minutes ago, Starise said:

Those who are here when Christ returns and alive will be taken to be with the Lord. The saved dead don't figure into end time interpretations as much because they are already dead.

Our Apostle Paul says those who are already dead "in Christ" are going to rise first, and then the ones still alive >

"the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them" > in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

So, I consider this means that "the saved dead" will be included in rising when Jesus returns for us. So, I am not sure what you mean by saying "the saved dead don't figure into end time interpretations". If the saved dead "rise first", they will figure, I would think.

Edited October 5, 2022 by com7fy8

[Starise]

5 minutes ago, com7fy8 said:

Our Apostle Paul says those who are already dead "in Christ" are going to rise first, and then the ones still alive >

"the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them" > in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

So, I consider this means that "the saved dead" will be included in rising when Jesus returns for us. So, I am not sure what you mean by saying "the saved dead don't figure into end time interpretations". If the saved dead "rise first", they will figure, I would think.

I guess I should reword that.

What I meant was the TIMING isn't as critical because when it happens it happens. 

So if I was pre trib , post rib, mid trib that variable doesn't change.

Hope this helps.

[Your closest friendnt]

28 minutes ago, com7fy8 said:

Our Apostle Paul says those who are already dead "in Christ" are going to rise first, and then the ones still alive >

"the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them" > in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

So, I consider this means that "the saved dead" will be included in rising when Jesus returns for us. So, I am not sure what you mean by saying "the saved dead don't figure into end time interpretations". If the saved dead "rise first", they will figure, I would think.

To understand better the suggestion you are implying that Paul said that he and all the other disciples when they died and Paul himself also will be together with the dead in Christ...is it not?

And all the other believers of Jesus who were devour by the Lions and those who were burned and those who were left unburied and were eaten by the birds and the wild beast and those eaten by the sharks they all will be found in the group of the dead in Christ... so Jesus Christ is alone in Heaven...what a lonely King...He is watching his children taken away from him...

While they are alive they are together (or now we begin to question that too) with him, one in Spirit with him and at the time of their death they are taken or Jesus is watching his children, his redeemed to be taken away from him and joint the group of all the other believers those who are called the dead in Christ..

So the physical death separated them from Jesus Christ...Certainly they do not become spiritually dead when their body dies while they are alive in Christ in Christ...while they are one with Jesus Christ...and one with the Heavenly Father...

Abraham at death of his children he received them where he was...and they were together after the time of the death of their body. 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[com7fy8]

11 minutes ago, Starise said:

What I meant was the TIMING isn't as critical because when it happens it happens. 

So if I was pre trib , post rib, mid trib that variable doesn't change.

Well, Paul says the dead will rise before the living. And there will be the ones who will have died for Jesus during the great tribulation. So, if they who die in the tribulation will rise first, then there can't be any earlier raising of living saints.