No longer sure about it all?

[JED]

6 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

If the only way God gives to escape this world and it's lie is Scripture

John 17:14 (KJV)

[14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

then satan has effectively sealed you in a position of lostness...

 

The problem is how do we ensure the Bible is the word of God? Why not the quaran or torah or hundreds of other religious books.

Why do we believe that the new testament which was written some time after Jesus was on earth is accurate? I couldn't write an accurate account of something from a few weeks ago let alone years.

Then why do we accept the 66 books as the final collection of God's word?

Even if it is the word of God without error then we fall into the trap of interpreting it in a certain way. Some things we say must be literal then others not.

Lots of questions for me to ponder I suppose.

 

[David1701]

5 hours ago, JED said:

We used to say in church that people have a God shaped hole in their life......I just dont think that is true.

The UK is becoming more secular and most people are good.  So many people that I know are not religious and are very happy and very good people.  I can now see how one good live a life without God maybe......

Only God is good.

[enoob57]

15 hours ago, JED said:

The problem is how do we ensure the Bible is the word of God?

The only means by which we can know is by study and the intensity of that study is told to us by God
Jeremiah 29:12 (KJV)

[12] Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

[13] And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

This searching is for truth and God says only His Word is truth!  Jn 17:17 below

John 17:8 (KJV)

[8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

 

John 17:14 (KJV)

[14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

15 hours ago, JED said:

Why not the quaran or torah or hundreds of other religious books.

We have God's promise above and if you do it with all your heart through prayer 

[12] Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

[13] And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

How do we know that the Bible is the Word of God, and not the Apocrypha, the Qur'an, the Book of Mormon, etc.? | GotQuestions.org

15 hours ago, JED said:

Why do we believe that the new testament which was written some time after Jesus was on earth is accurate? I couldn't write an accurate account of something from a few weeks ago let alone years.

This is the study of how we got our New Testament
What is the canon of Scripture? | GotQuestions.org

15 hours ago, JED said:

Then why do we accept the 66 books as the final collection of God's word?

What are the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonical books? | GotQuestions.org

15 hours ago, JED said:

Even if it is the word of God without error then we fall into the trap of interpreting it in a certain way. Some things we say must be literal then others not.

This is personal seeking of God with all your heart... you have His promise are you doing your part in the study of His Word?

15 hours ago, JED said:

Lots of questions for me to ponder I suppose.

 

[kwikphilly]

4 hours ago, JED said:

Ok that sounds good.

Genesis- no way are stars, sun, moon etc 6000 years old.  They are billions of years old. So genesis is factually flawed.

Adam and eve being created by God from the dust....what about neanderthals? 

Noah- are you really telling me that a chap built an arc and collected 2 of every kind of animal? Think about this logically... a polar bear from Antarctica and lion from Africa etc....it makes no sense.

Jonah being swallowed by a fish and surviving. I mean seems crazy.

Thats just a few.

Don't mean to sound flippant btw.

Fantastic! Really great place to start ,in the beginning!!!

These are wonderful questions & I want you to know I'm looking forward to our discussion but I must get a little sleep ..   I'm in Florida,we are in some bad weather so in between chatting I've been pulling down shutters,taking in planters going in and out for hours now & I'm pretty beat!

So gnite for now ,I'll pick up where we left off after I get some rest. 

In His Love,Kwik

Please pray everyone- in Jesus Name     "Hurricaine Ian,the Lord Rebukes you- Peace,be still".  Keep us out of harms way Father God🙏

[Marathoner]

15 hours ago, JED said:

Hi Guys,

I haven't been on here for a long time but here goes.

I've been a Christian for maybe 20 years. Married quite young and have 2 children.  Last year unfortunately we separated and divorced. We are both Christians.

I never thought for one second that we would ever not be together, but it seems that we grew apart over the years.  I wanted to keep the marriage together but she said it was not an option and that we would be better separating.  100% no infidelity involved.

The children are great and we are both getting along pretty well most of the time which makes things easier.

Since then I've not attended church very much as this has really affected me.  I'm really unsure about the Christian faith in general now and even wondering if God is even there?  I haven't missed not going to church at all and must admit that I have ventured into some things that as a Christian I shouldn't do.........but life is never black and white and I'm almost at the point in thinking well let's just do what I enjoy as long as no one gets hurt.

I'm a long way from where a Christian should be but trying to wrestle with this all.  I would still say that I live my life in a good way and most people would still say I'm a Christian.

Not sure what anyone can say in this situation really but I would really like some words of wisdom.

 

I noticed this when you posted it, my friend. I'm familiar with what you're going through. The Spirit of the Lord is bringing you to the end of yourself, though it might seem that is not the case. Ah, but it is indeed the case, for I recognize His work in you. 

There is another brother on this forum --- I will not tag his name nor identify him --- who found himself precisely where you are now some time ago. Perhaps he will notice your topic and weigh in. The religion he had held fast to for so long was collapsing into a heap, and he believed that his faith in the Lord was slipping away. He wrote extensively about his grief but when I read his words, I was overjoyed for his sake. What?

I recognized the work of the Lord in this brother right away, @JED. There is no denying the work of His Spirit and I ought to know, seeing as how our Lord Jesus Christ accomplished that same work in me. Over the span of two decades (24 years to be precise), I lost everything:

I lost my family of flesh and blood.
I lost my friends.
I lost the esteem of others.
I lost my money and possessions,
And I wandered without a home.

In the end, I almost lost my life. This is when I had come to the end of myself at last. I believed the Lord despised me and so when He came to me in my ruin, I was undone. The Lord came, and He lifted me up; He lifted me up, healed this body, and restored everything that I had lost in a measure exceeding what was given before. What was taken, He restored tenfold.

You are witnessing the worthlessness of religion, my friend. What you knew before is being taken away, for there is no turning back to clanging cymbals and hollow bells. What did the Lord declare in days of old?

"Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people; and you shall walk entirely in the way which I command you, so that it may go well for you." (Jeremiah 7:23)

We listen for the voice of Jesus Christ and when He speaks, we hear Him. His voice is not frozen in time, JED. On the other side of yourself, you will understand. I did... our brother did... and so will you. I'm very encouraged for your sake just like I was for our brother who endured the same trial you're going through.

You'll see.  

Edited September 28, 2022 by Marathoner
typo

[Marilyn C]

17 hours ago, JED said:

Hi Guys,

I haven't been on here for a long time but here goes.

I've been a Christian for maybe 20 years. Married quite young and have 2 children.  Last year unfortunately we separated and divorced. We are both Christians.

I never thought for one second that we would ever not be together, but it seems that we grew apart over the years.  I wanted to keep the marriage together but she said it was not an option and that we would be better separating.  100% no infidelity involved.

The children are great and we are both getting along pretty well most of the time which makes things easier.

Since then I've not attended church very much as this has really affected me.  I'm really unsure about the Christian faith in general now and even wondering if God is even there?  I haven't missed not going to church at all and must admit that I have ventured into some things that as a Christian I shouldn't do.........but life is never black and white and I'm almost at the point in thinking well let's just do what I enjoy as long as no one gets hurt.

I'm a long way from where a Christian should be but trying to wrestle with this all.  I would still say that I live my life in a good way and most people would still say I'm a Christian.

Not sure what anyone can say in this situation really but I would really like some words of wisdom.

 

Hi JED,

Sounds to me like God is getting you off to Himself away from the public meeting, and as your relationship with your wife has been severed, then you are in a great place to actually find out if God is really interested in you.

When the outward has been taken away, however it happened, then it is the great time to actually know God for yourself and not through man`s system or people`s ideas.

So go for the great adventure to test if God knows who you are and is really interested in you. Remember He knows how you think, and He will open your eyes to `see` what you were too busy to see before. Be patient.

Praying, Marilyn.

[kwikphilly]

14 hours ago, JED said:

Ok that sounds good.

Genesis- no way are stars, sun, moon etc 6000 years old.  They are billions of years old. So genesis is factually flawed.

Adam and eve being created by God from the dust....what about neanderthals? 

Noah- are you really telling me that a chap built an arc and collected 2 of every kind of animal? Think about this logically... a polar bear from Antarctica and lion from Africa etc....it makes no sense.

Jonah being swallowed by a fish and surviving. I mean seems crazy.

Thats just a few.

Don't mean to sound flippant btw.

Good Morning JED & Blessings

So,where were we? And no,you don't sound flippant- you sound doubtful and hanging on to what's left of your Faith by a thread! No worries,atheists have come to Believe!

Before I attempt to answer your great questions as best as I can I think the bigger issue to address is whether or not God's Word is in fact,God's Word - if it is then that answers all your questions with" Because He Said so"... Right?

So,you first asked about Genesis,which seems to be ' the beginning" but for me,as a Born Again Christian I began in the Book of John because ," In the beginning was the WORD".... before Creation,before time as we know it.Christianity is about Jesus Who IS the Word of God

There are many Testimonies of people who came to Faith simply by asking God( as I mentioned & suggested).   So first I'll Testify & keep it as brief as possible because like you I " believed" & then spiraled out of control,got into a world of darkness and transgressed terribly - from there I doubted everything I ever thought I knew.That motivated me to " discredit" God's Word,refusing to engage with God as I no longer wanted to read the Scriptures but rather ,pick them apart to find error.

Well what happened after many years of research & study the opposite happened.First I found " correctness" in evidence of manuscripts,archeological evidence & finally I dug into the " Historical Jesus" ---- Well,history proves there really was this " Jesus" and the historical records matched perfectly ,accurately with the Biblical accounts.

Now please understand,I was fighting tooth & nail to disprove everything written,not looking to support & validate.I believe I started in the Book of Matthew and found everything Jesus Said He backed up with Marvelous Miracles and works -they were confirmed by John & Mark and then I found out Luke was a man if science,looking for eye witnesses accounts - these too, confirmed what everyone else had said ...

Okay,so Jesus was a great guy,did all these amazing things but Son of God,God the Son?Then I researched the Prophets and saw over 200 prophesies about Jesus & how He Fulfilled ALL of them ..

Jesus is indeed the Author & the Finisher of our Faith -so now that I found Jesus is Who He Says He is then what He Says is True.. He References the Scriptures,Noah, Jonah - they must be True

Now that's just me,I did my due diligence but that's not how I was birthed in Spirit - it just put me back on the right track,quenching my thirst for carnal knowledge and by my own reason & understanding I had learned all about Him & now I was hungry to KNOW Him----I read the Bible seeking Him,it was like I never read it before after I was dissecting it for over 2 decades.  Plus,from my youth of being taught false doctrine I NEEDED God's Help

I/we can't make you Believe,we can't convince you of anything and can't Save your dying faith but what we can do is share our own experiences ,point the Way &with HOPE in Christ Trust God to Lead you the rest of the Way

Now I did as I promised & didn't copy/paste Scriptures & talk Christianese but if anything at all I pray what I shared with help to get you to either make a decision to do your own due diligence to prove the Authenticity of the Bible and make the effort to satisfy your own intellectual needs OR decide to ask God's Help....Now choosing either/ or  you must read the Word of God for yourself!

Faith comes by hearing the Word of God ....

With love in Christ,Kwik

[Marathoner]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi JED,

Sounds to me like God is getting you off to Himself away from the public meeting, and as your relationship with your wife has been severed, then you are in a great place to actually find out if God is really interested in you.

When the outward has been taken away, however it happened, then it is the great time to actually know God for yourself and not through man`s system or people`s ideas.

So go for the great adventure to test if God knows who you are and is really interested in you. Remember He knows how you think, and He will open your eyes to `see` what you were too busy to see before. Be patient.

Praying, Marilyn.

Marilyn touches upon that time when we are called into the wilderness, @JED. This wilderness can be proverbial or, as it was in my case, a literal wilderness. This wilderness is a time of testing by the Lord. 

Don't be mistaken: Almighty God does indeed test us, though this testing is not according to what is familiar to man. The test of God is not a pass or fail ordeal, my friend. 

You can run as far as your feet (or heart) can possibly take you but wherever you happen to be, the Lord is there. You can convince yourself that you have escaped Him at last, but there is no escaping the Almighty. The Lord is Almighty because there is no other like Him, and all things serve Him. He is Almighty for He created each and every one of us, and we are clay in His hands. All power and authority belong to the Lord God. 

Are you familiar with metallurgy, JED? The metallurgical allegory is found throughout the scriptures. The Lord is the master craftsman and we are that ore which He refines, tests, and purifies in the fire. The "testing" is not a pass or fail imperative but rather, a proofing of His work. The test determines the purity of the ore.

Consider this passage from the book of Zechariah the prophet:

“Awake, sword, against My Shepherd,
And against the Man, My Associate,”
Declares the LORD of armies.
“Strike the Shepherd and the sheep will be scattered;
And I will turn My hand against the little ones.
And it will come about in all the land,”
Declares the LORD,
“That two parts in it will be cut off and perish;
But the third will be left in it.
And I will bring the third part through the fire,
Refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are My people,’
And they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’”
(Zechariah 13:7-9 NASB)

The wilderness is the furnace of the Lord, my friend. By all means, run as far you can go! Like the author of Ecclesiastes, you will come to lament the vanity and folly of man under the sun. Religion is empty and so are the philosophies of learned men; the wisest of men is nothing but a fool in the sight of the Almighty upon His throne, but it is good for us to come to this knowledge so that we seize upon wisdom at last. Vanity of vanities, everything is vanity! What was done before is done again. 

We are the work of His hand. The Lord tests us so we might stand revealed before Him and that great cloud of witnesses surrounding His throne. God refines us like silver is refined (the fiery trial in the wilderness) and tests us like gold is tried. You are the work of His hand whether you recognize it or not and one day, you will understand why the Lord brings us to the end of ourselves. We die so we might live in Jesus Christ.  

Edited September 28, 2022 by Marathoner
typo

[NCAP]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:01 PM, JED said:

The problem is how do we ensure the Bible is the word of God? Why not the quaran or torah or hundreds of other religious books.

Why do we believe that the new testament which was written some time after Jesus was on earth is accurate? I couldn't write an accurate account of something from a few weeks ago let alone years.

Then why do we accept the 66 books as the final collection of God's word?

Even if it is the word of God without error then we fall into the trap of interpreting it in a certain way. Some things we say must be literal then others not.

Lots of questions for me to ponder I suppose.

 

Okay, you are doing some "arm-chair" reflection. Why do Protestants accept 66 books as inspired by God, but Catholics accept 72?

Why does it say "All scripture is inspired by God" but doesn't say which ones are inspired?

We all start off with "givens" in this life, and we go from there. I'm using the word "given" in the sense of it being used by a mathematician who writes proofs.

"You word is truth" (John 17:17)

That would be the "given", that is, where you begin and what you might accept as self-evident. But it doesn't tell me which words are truth, or which words are from God. So, in that sense it is not self-evident.

What is truth? (John 18:38)

Truth is one of those things that philosophers have grappled with down through the centuries. From a mathematical point of view, Sassolas (p.2 2021) writes that "truth is either something we assume to be true, or something we can build as true from other truths."[1]

That said, you seem to be at a crossroads in your life in which you are questioning your assumptions, what you are assuming to be true. Is it okay to do something like that? And if not, why not? Here is the bible's answer:

But let a man examine himself (1 Corinthians 11:28)

--------------------------

[1] Sassolas, M (2021). Introduction to Discrete Mathematics. Cuny Academic Works

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by NCAP

[Dennis1209]

On 9/27/2022 at 8:49 AM, JED said:

Hi Guys,

I haven't been on here for a long time but here goes.

I've been a Christian for maybe 20 years. Married quite young and have 2 children.  Last year unfortunately we separated and divorced. We are both Christians.

I never thought for one second that we would ever not be together, but it seems that we grew apart over the years.  I wanted to keep the marriage together but she said it was not an option and that we would be better separating.  100% no infidelity involved.

The children are great and we are both getting along pretty well most of the time which makes things easier.

Since then I've not attended church very much as this has really affected me.  I'm really unsure about the Christian faith in general now and even wondering if God is even there?  I haven't missed not going to church at all and must admit that I have ventured into some things that as a Christian I shouldn't do.........but life is never black and white and I'm almost at the point in thinking well let's just do what I enjoy as long as no one gets hurt.

I'm a long way from where a Christian should be but trying to wrestle with this all.  I would still say that I live my life in a good way and most people would still say I'm a Christian.

Not sure what anyone can say in this situation really but I would really like some words of wisdom.

 

Hello JED,

First, welcome to the forum; it is a pleasure to get to know you and talk about Jesus.

Rest assured, you are in good company and not the only person to experience what you are going through; it is more common than you might think. I do not have the "words of wisdom" to guide you not being a counselor, but the Lord's word does. Perhaps you could ask an excellent Pastor to listen to your concerns and get guidance. These are legitimate and serious concerns.

The fact that you are concerned, being honest, and seeking help is very telling. Every day we battle with our flesh. To top off, Satan and his demons are constantly firing darts at us, trying to cast doubt and torment Christians. The dark side does not need to hassle those they own. We cannot stand on our own, and we need the armor of Ephesians chapter six to stand and resist.

As was previously alluded to, begin with examining yourself to see if you are in the faith. Not what you feel, think, how you act, or how good or bad one compares himself to others. But a personal one-on-one relationship and faith toward our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To paraphrase kwik, the church is a body of believers (congregation) of those with saving faith, the bride of Christ. We assemble to worship the Lord, uplift one another, and learn God's word.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

I have experienced a lot in my lifetime; self-gratification, decades of alcoholism, doubt, questioning, divorce, questioning myself, and "night sweats."

An intense fear of where I was headed for all eternity, so bad at times I could not get to sleep. The following statement is not an opinion, this is a fact: There is nothing more important, no decision ever made, than the "choice" of where one is going to spend all of eternity. Excuse the expression, but that scared the Hell out of me!

For five decades, I have experienced much of what you have recited and probably much worse as a backslider. In my testimony here on Worthy, I air out my dirty laundry and testify to what the Lord did for me.

The following promise has a personal application in my life; He saved me from myself:

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

My Sunday School teacher led me to the Lord at about twelve years old. Long story short, peer pressure growing up, my military service, and my flesh led me astray for decades.

I have and still, on occasion, struggled with doubt and those fiery darts. The occasional unclean thought, did that come from my sinful flesh mind, or was that one of those fiery darts?

Hence again: Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

The verse above can be understood with a variety of meanings. I believe it is saying if you have saving faith, are born again, an authentic Christian, and backslide | fall away. The Lord never starts something He does not finish. One way or another, He will bring you back into the fold and not lose you.