True or false? One who doesn't know the Bible might be closer to God than a Bible scholar.

[Not of the World]

45 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Maybe I am misunderstanding the 

 I pray "for that day when" my sins will be forgiven, I will be healed, and I will be saved by the love and mercy of our loving savior and shepherd, Jesus Christ, who is Lord!

as it sounds like (to me) you are looking to a 'future' time for this to be and not in the present.  Hope this helps 

I see.  Thank you.  I guess I'm not assuming that I'm saved.  I hope so nut I don't know for sure.  

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Not of the World said:

I don't know why or how but I have always believed in God and my belief was/is not based on anything in the Bible.  However, reading the Bible certainly strengthened my faith because I have found much wisdom and many truths in it.  And I agree with a previous poster(s) who said that we need the Bible so that we truly understand what God is and isn't about.  And let's also remember that for centuries, most people did NOT have a Bible, yet still believed.  The Bible helps us to know more about God but it's not what brings us to him.  He first comes to us, or so I understand.  

 

John 6:44 ESV

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

 

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

But they went to church and heard.  But what could that mean for us?  Now we have His words in our hands.  How much more should be know?   I think that the time for 'evangelizing' is coming to an end, and the time for KNOWLEDGE aka the book of Daniel being opened,  and knowledge is running to and fro for a REASON, and those who have already been drawn, need to be getting to work by getting what is written out there and not talking about assumptions people make. 

I could be wrong, but if I am then there is Scripture that can be brought to the table to prove it.  

If God were to 'draw' us Himself without the Word, we would not need to spread the Word,  and the Word would not need to be published throughout the world. 

God would be  coming unto those HE Himself teaches us,  are at enmity with Him, don't even come before His face.

What is the REALITY of God just 'coming' into ones life uninvited and not by faith.    
It's judgment day, the one person God  tapped on the shoulder and said come to me is off to eternal life and the next guy steps up, he didn't get the shoulder tap,  is off to 2nd death.  How is that JUST?

(And while it IS TRUE that His ways are not our ways, THAT DOESN'T mean He negates any of the truths He does give us)

HOW does God 'draw' AN UNREPENTANT SOUL, whose flesh is at enmity with Him,  if  NOT through HIS WORDS, in a manner that is not a respecter of persons and is JUST TO ALL? 

All I am saying is The path is narrow and it is narrow because it is HIS WAY OR THE HIGHWAY. 

 Surely, His sheep hear his voice and MAYBE they might THINK it was without any sort of  'provocation' what so ever and they had been 'drawn' without,  but BOTH CAN'T BE TRUE.  We have to be able to COUNT on what is written as being HIS TRUTH or it's all for nothing.  


9  Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts

10  For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11  For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12  To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing:

yet they would not hear.

13   But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.


 

[DeighAnn]

25 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

I see.  Thank you.  I guess I'm not assuming that I'm saved.  I hope so nut I don't know for sure.  

Why wouldn't you be saved?  Or do you mean you don't approach it as if you had already attained?  (which is really good if you want to be a vessel of Gold that keeps you WORKING to win the race.  But as long as you finish, you are good) so

You HAVE MOST DEFINITELY been saved, are saved, will remain saved, UNLESS YOU CHOOSE THE OTHER PATH.

SO, GOD will NEVER STEP AWAY.  You HAVE received the gift of Salvation when you came to faith and accepted the Lord and Saviour.  

I would imagine this comes from that debate of 'works salvation' or how ever that ONE goes.  

YOU have been made a new creature.  

I am not saying we WORK to keep the gift BUT at the same time I am saying GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED.  

You keep loving the Lord and it's a guarantee.  WALK IN THAT PEACE.  

My mother, who loves the Lord and has gone out into the world 'looking' to give the good news everywhere she went, TO THIS DAY, will come and tell me she doesn't think she is good enough.  

HERE is what I tell her.  If it WAS UP TO US, we would NEVER make it, we would never be RIGHT enough,

but our EVER LOVING GOD, in order for us to WALK in peace and comfort in this flesh,

DID ALL the really hard work for us, He MADE IT so that it was EASY to stay close to Him and to take away the burden of GUILT for not being right enough, even when we try so He can be our FATHER, the one who leads and guides us

So, love Him, praise and worship and soon He will come as eternal life has already begun...

[Jayne]

57 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

I see.  Thank you.  I guess I'm not assuming that I'm saved.  I hope so nut I don't know for sure.  

Brother, you CAN know for sure.  The Bible teaches that God sent Christ to save us.  That Jesus Christ is an assurance.  That the Holy Spirit is a seal of guarantee.

Why do you think that you don't know if you are saved or not?

[Not of the World]

10 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Why do you think that you don't know if you are saved or not?

Because I stray from the path prescribed by Christ.  

[Not of the World]

28 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Why wouldn't you be saved?  Or do you mean you don't approach it as if you had already attained?  (which is really good if you want to be a vessel of Gold that keeps you WORKING to win the race.  But as long as you finish, you are good) so

You HAVE MOST DEFINITELY been saved, are saved, will remain saved, UNLESS YOU CHOOSE THE OTHER PATH.

SO, GOD will NEVER STEP AWAY.  You HAVE received the gift of Salvation when you came to faith and accepted the Lord and Saviour.  

I would imagine this comes from that debate of 'works salvation' or how ever that ONE goes.  

YOU have been made a new creature.  

I am not saying we WORK to keep the gift BUT at the same time I am saying GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED.  

You keep loving the Lord and it's a guarantee.  WALK IN THAT PEACE.  

My mother, who loves the Lord and has gone out into the world 'looking' to give the good news everywhere she went, TO THIS DAY, will come and tell me she doesn't think she is good enough.  

HERE is what I tell her.  If it WAS UP TO US, we would NEVER make it, we would never be RIGHT enough,

but our EVER LOVING GOD, in order for us to WALK in peace and comfort in this flesh,

DID ALL the really hard work for us, He MADE IT so that it was EASY to stay close to Him and to take away the burden of GUILT for not being right enough, even when we try so He can be our FATHER, the one who leads and guides us

So, love Him, praise and worship and soon He will come as eternal life has already begun...

Thank you and God bless you.  

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

8 hours ago, Not of the World said:

I don't know why or how but I have always believed in God and my belief was/is not based on anything in the Bible.  However, reading the Bible certainly strengthened my faith because I have found much wisdom and many truths in it.  And I agree with a previous poster(s) who said that we need the Bible so that we truly understand what God is and isn't about.  And let's also remember that for centuries, most people did NOT have a Bible, yet still believed.  The Bible helps us to know more about God but it's not what brings us to him.  He first comes to us, or so I understand.  

 

John 6:44 ESV

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

 

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I certainly don't mean to argue about it,  but believing in God is not quite the same as believing in Jesus. Many religions claim to believe in God, but those are false gods of their own making.  Only the 1 true God can save people.  If someone doesn't know that 1 true God, they are lost,  no matter what they believe about anything else. That being said,  I read some of your other posts on this thread and it certainly sounds like you DO know him and are saved.  Please don't doubt your salvation.  It is a solemn promise from God and he won't break that promise.  If you were EVER saved in your life,  then take comfort that you are STILL saved.  We all stray from the path now and then and some of us even spend long seasons in darkness,  but God's promise still remains and is stronger than our sin. Yes he draws us,  but he also draws anyone who is willing to be drawn. In response to your first point to me,  yes for many centuries people didn't have a Bible.  But what they DID have was fellowship with other Christians and churches where scripture was taught and preached. And that can be enough. 

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Not of the World said:

I don't know why or how but I have always believed in God and my belief was/is not based on anything in the Bible.  However, reading the Bible certainly strengthened my faith because I have found much wisdom and many truths in it.  And I agree with a previous poster(s) who said that we need the Bible so that we truly understand what God is and isn't about.  And let's also remember that for centuries, most people did NOT have a Bible, yet still believed.  The Bible helps us to know more about God but it's not what brings us to him.  He first comes to us, or so I understand.  

 

John 6:44 ESV

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

 

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

A well thought out post. And we have the examples of the thousands of martyrs who died during the persecution of the believer in Jesus Christ of the first 260 years after the day of Penticost...

During that time of tribulations, which tribulations continue beyond  the first 300 years after the day of Penticost in territories in the far east which were not under the authority of the Roman empire or were in defiance to the Roman Emperor Constantine. 

With Constantine the persecution because of religious beliefs ended..and were prohibited.

Religious persecutions were prohibited.  That includes that Christians cannot discriminate and persecute non Christians and Christians cannot persecute other Christians, that specific situation has not started but it will start with the beginning of the divisions amongst believers..

To state in the subject for generations the believers lived under the tribulation of death because of their faith in Jesus Christ. 

The most amazing thing is for generations they were born with the threat of death upon them and they lived and multiply within the tribulation and some survive and some were martyred...and they had all the chances to deny their faith but they did not, and they overbecame everything that came against them and even the treats of death by the word of their testimony and the blood of Jesus Christ...

All those believers they did not have the whole bible but perhaps they recite everything by memory and portions of the instructions they had received from the disciples of Jesus and their disciples...

But they were empower by the Holy Spirit, they needed more the Holy Spirit at that time than any other time..

It was the Holy Spirit that made them strong and their visions of Jesus Christ in some similar way of the vision of Stephen at the time of their death....and they stand firm in their faith like Stephen...

For more than 300 hundred years they knew that they will be born but not how long they will live and they knew that likely will died at the Lions in the Arena in front of the Emperor or the Governess or in some other way...but they did not fretted and stay firm in the faith.

And they overcame him by their testimony and the blood of the Lamb of God...

 

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Selah7 said:

I lovethis verse!

I would have lost heart, unless I had believed That I would see the goodness of the LORD In the land of the living.

- Psalm 27:13

Many show death even that time...do you know how many Israelites died in their prime age because of wars and other reasons even for King's David's sin, seventy thousand...from the hand of the Lord Angel's...the Lord started it and the Lord stopped it...even when this Psalm was written and before and there after. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Sower]

32 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

43 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Why do you think that you don't know if you are saved or not?

Because I stray from the path prescribed by Christ. 

You may have to stop and think of your previous false beliefs, like most of us, specifically the catholic dogma that you and I were indoctrinated in. I noticed in other threads you think anyone who says to others that they are saved is arrogant and bragging.

Fact; You can not brag about something you didn't do! (salvation is a gift from God)
You can brag about something God has done. For whosoever will......

If you're not sure you are saved, then faith is lacking. There is an enemy we have that will plant doubt as to your faith. God knows this. So he told us;

"Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts (doubts-confusion-false corrupted data) of the wicked"(devil whispering in your ear/mind)
 

Here is my point. I will share my personal dealings with this very subject. I was saved 40+ yrs ago  for sure when I confronted God driving at night in my 62 bug down the highway, explaining to God how I believed all this new information (scripture) I had been receiving, how his word ("and the word was God") drew me with a thirst for more milk,  and what I believed in my studies, each part of what it takes to be saved, and I wanted to know if I was truly saved to tell me, and if I wasn't saved I wanted to be, now. And God was faithful, and filled me with awesome assurance within my heart and spirit, and the night momentarily turned to daylight,  and I was overcome with so much peace. The bug just floated home on it's own.

BUT!! It was extremely difficult (impossible) for me to accept this "once saved, always saved" stuff my new Christian friends were trying to tell me. It took months of reading the verses of assurance and God's faithfulness for me to overcome all the false beliefs I had been programmed by the RCC, that I had to be a really good person to even be considered to receive God's grace, and maintain my adherence to all those rules of confession, works works works and NEVER presume upon God I could merit salvation! (I found out I never would merit salvation, and that took care of that RCC dogma of presumption upon God)

It took the work of the word of God and through the Holy Spirit's indwelling my heart and mind before one day I was set free. Understanding, rightly dividing the scriptures myself through the holy spirit and NOT catholic interpretations. I can understand, as we are both ex catholics, the difficulties you are having as I also went through them. And you have over come as you have living within you the over comer of the world, Christ Jesus (as a believer).

You will never, never be good enough to merit salvation on your own. It is only God's mercy, and HIS amazing grace, and your faith in his word that will save you and seal you for all eternity. Should you fall (and you will:) He is faithful to lift you up. You are HIS adopted child, and can call him Abba, daddy. How cool, huh.
He will do what it takes (chastisement-pruning) to keep your path straight.

It is hard to actually believe in something so simple, so non meritorious, no merit deserving work to do. Belief, faith, acceptance. If you/me have any tiny held idea that you did, doing, gonna do,  something good to deserve salvation, then you do not trust fully what God has written in his words to us.

I can lose my salvation!  If it was up to me. If it was possible for ME that worked to get it. But it is not up to me, but it is the faithfulness of our almighty God who is faithful to keep us.

"For I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that Day"

Thank God my belief, my faith, my salvation, is in the hands now of my Savior.