Oh How the Mighty Have Fallen...

[JohnD]

These days especially, it seems not a lot of time passes before some Christian leader is exposed for being...

well, human. And much is made about it in the press and various mediums. And jumping in with both heels

most often are Believers responding to the herd mentality.

I remember being in that herd a long time ago when a very prominent Pastor and Christian radio teacher

had an adulterous affair. You could hear the disgust in the announcer's voice as he signed off for the last time

the hour long daily radio broadcast this fallen pastor taught.

I literally tore my clothes over it when I heard it.

A few years later I saw this pastor as he was taken under the wing of another prominent pastor in Southern California

(who allowed him to be a junior part of his ministry).

At first I was incensed. This man who brought disgrace to the name of Jesus and given rise to those who mock his holy name.

But then it occurred to me, though I have never committed adultery... I am not without sin and could not cast the first stone.

John 8 opened my eyes about the Christ who while even under the Law of Moses exercised Grace to the woman caught in the act of adultery.

Question:

Are we unrealistic about our expectations of ourselves and others?

And do we place an extra burden on those few men and women who step up into ministry (not taking into account that they are greater targets

of the enemy)?

Yes yes there are biblical criteria for being a leader in the faith... but are we to count their failures as the unpardonable sins?

 

[teddyv]

Of course forgiveness is available.

I don't know the specifics of who you are talking about, but in the hypothetical, putting an formerly adulterous pastor into the semi-same position of authority might be a mistake.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

These days especially, it seems not a lot of time passes before some Christian leader is exposed for being...

well, human. And much is made about it in the press and various mediums. And jumping in with both heels

most often are Believers responding to the herd mentality.

I remember being in that herd a long time ago when a very prominent Pastor and Christian radio teacher

had an adulterous affair. You could hear the disgust in the announcer's voice as he signed off for the last time

the hour long daily radio broadcast this fallen pastor taught.

I literally tore my clothes over it when I heard it.

A few years later I saw this pastor as he was taken under the wing of another prominent pastor in Southern California

(who allowed him to be a junior part of his ministry).

At first I was incensed. This man who brought disgrace to the name of Jesus and given rise to those who mock his holy name.

But then it occurred to me, though I have never committed adultery... I am not without sin and could not cast the first stone.

John 8 opened my eyes about the Christ who while even under the Law of Moses exercised Grace to the woman caught in the act of adultery.

Question:

Are we unrealistic about our expectations of ourselves and others?

And do we place an extra burden on those few men and women who step up into ministry (not taking into account that they are greater targets

of the enemy)?

Yes yes there are biblical criteria for being a leader in the faith... but are we to count their failures as the unpardonable sins?

 

We are all human and subject to sin and mistakes,  but Christians in leadership are held to a higher standard.  In my personal opinion,  leaders caught in public sin should step down immediately. However non leader Christians should be disciplined and if repentance is present, they should be forgiven.  Scripture says that we are to live lives that are holy enough that no one can even suggest that we've done something wrong. 

[steve morrow]

SUBMIT  UNTO  GOD  

 

1 PETER 4:1  forasmuch then as  CHRIST  hath suffered for us in the flesh --arm yourselves likewise with the  --  same mind-- for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin 

--1:2--  that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men --but to the will of  GOD--

 

JAMES 4:7  submit yourselves therefore to  GOD  --resist the devil-- AND  HE  WILL  FLEE  FROM  YOU--

 

EPHESIANS 6:18   praying always with all prayer and supplication in the spirit  ---  and watching thereunto with all  --perseverance--  and supplication for all saints 

 

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth  --the flesh profiteth nothing--  the words that I speak unto you --they are  --  spirit and they are life --

 

PHILIPPIANS 3:11  if by any means I might attain unto the resurection --of the dead--

1 THESSALONIANS 4:4:16  for  THE  LORD  himself shall descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of the archangel --and with the trump of  GOD   ---   and the dead in  CHRIST  SHALL RISE FIRST--

 

PHILIPPIANS 3:12  not as though I had already attained either were already perfect  --but I follow after if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of   CHRIST  JESUS  

--3:13-- brethren I count not myself to have apprehended but this one thing I do --forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forth unto those things which are before--

--3:14--  I press toward the mark  ---FOR  THE  PRIZE  OF  THE  HIGH  CALLING  OF  GOD  IN  CHRIST  JESUS---

 

PROVERBS 26:28  A  LYING  TONGUE  HATETH  THOSE  THAT  ARE  AFFLICTED  BY  IT   ---   AND  A  FLATTERING  MOUTH  WORKETH  RUIN

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

[Sower]

4 hours ago, JohnD said:

Are we unrealistic about our expectations of ourselves and others?

And do we place an extra burden on those few men and women who step up into ministry (not taking into account that they are greater targets

of the enemy)?

Yes yes there are biblical criteria for being a leader in the faith... but are we to count their failures as the unpardonable sins?

 

 I think I will hold my peace concerning any judgement on this one. Yes, those in authority are held to a higher standard.
As you said, John, those on the front line of the battles with the enemy are the ones getting wounded the most, as in any war.
The body of Christ (the army of God) is the only army that does not take their fallen brothers in arms and tend to their wounds, but spit on them.
We fight not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places. Some day, if we are on the front lines and not just a pew sitter, we may also fall to the enemy.

"For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged" Matthew 7:2

Sounds pretty ominous.  My second bible verse I purposed to memorize yrs back is;

"He that is void of wisdom despiseth his neighbour: but a man of understanding holdeth his peace"

"Whoever shows contempt for his neighbor lacks judgment, but a man of understanding remains silent"

"It is foolish to belittle one’s neighbor; a sensible person keeps quiet'     Proverbs 11:12, 3ea versions.

7 x 70 = a lot......

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, Sower said:

 I think I will hold my peace concerning any judgement on this one. Yes, those in authority are held to a higher standard.
As you said, John, those on the front line of the battles with the enemy are the ones getting wounded the most, as in any war.
The body of Christ (the army of God) is the only army that does not take their fallen brothers in arms and tend to their wounds, but spit on them.
We fight not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places. Some day, if we are on the front lines and not just a pew sitter, we may also fall to the enemy.

"For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged" Matthew 7:2

Sounds pretty ominous.  My second bible verse I purposed to memorize yrs back is;

"He that is void of wisdom despiseth his neighbour: but a man of understanding holdeth his peace"

"Whoever shows contempt for his neighbor lacks judgment, but a man of understanding remains silent"

"It is foolish to belittle one’s neighbor; a sensible person keeps quiet'     Proverbs 11:12, 3ea versions.

7 x 70 = a lot......

I witness to this, brother. About 15 or so years ago during a particularly difficult time, the Lord spoke two words (rhema) to me. “Do not build a case against your brethern and beware the root of bitterness”. That has been very helpful.

[kwikphilly]

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

These days especially, it seems not a lot of time passes before some Christian leader is exposed for being...

well, human. And much is made about it in the press and various mediums. And jumping in with both heels

most often are Believers responding to the herd mentality.

I remember being in that herd a long time ago when a very prominent Pastor and Christian radio teacher

had an adulterous affair. You could hear the disgust in the announcer's voice as he signed off for the last time

the hour long daily radio broadcast this fallen pastor taught.

I literally tore my clothes over it when I heard it.

A few years later I saw this pastor as he was taken under the wing of another prominent pastor in Southern California

(who allowed him to be a junior part of his ministry).

At first I was incensed. This man who brought disgrace to the name of Jesus and given rise to those who mock his holy name.

But then it occurred to me, though I have never committed adultery... I am not without sin and could not cast the first stone.

John 8 opened my eyes about the Christ who while even under the Law of Moses exercised Grace to the woman caught in the act of adultery.

Question:

Are we unrealistic about our expectations of ourselves and others?

And do we place an extra burden on those few men and women who step up into ministry (not taking into account that they are greater targets

of the enemy)?

Yes yes there are biblical criteria for being a leader in the faith... but are we to count their failures as the unpardonable sins?

 

Blessings Brother

Yes,I do believe most people have very unrealistic expectations,more so towards people in Ministry.Be it the ladies who volunteer to work in the church cafeteria ,to the ushers and everyone along the way to lead Pastor.

These are our Brothers & Sisters,we all have our flaws,we make mistakes,we will inevitably be unable to fill everyone's expectations and therefore we should not be surprised when someone stumbles or falls- no,we should be there to help them to their feet and be forgiving

I don't like to talk about men (& women of God)- I don't like hearing slander or accusations,I'm not their judge ....

As a child I was taught that if you have nothing nice to say,say nothing. I've tried to live by that.Pastors & leaders are held to a higher standard by the Lord God Almighty,they have assumed a position that bears great responsibilities so  if they fall and then repent we should certainly be supportive,don't you agree?

I'm Forgiven,and everytime I err I'm Forgiven- I can at least pay it forward...

 

With love in Christ,Kwik

[Alive]

57 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Brother

Yes,I do believe most people have very unrealistic expectations,more so towards people in Ministry.Be it the ladies who volunteer to work in the church cafeteria ,to the ushers and everyone along the way to lead Pastor.

These are our Brothers & Sisters,we all have our flaws,we make mistakes,we will inevitably be unable to fill everyone's expectations and therefore we should not be surprised when someone stumbles or falls- no,we should be there to help them to their feet and be forgiving

I don't like to talk about men (& women of God)- I don't like hearing slander or accusations,I'm not their judge ....

As a child I was taught that if you have nothing nice to say,say nothing. I've tried to live by that.Pastors & leaders are held to a higher standard by the Lord God Almighty,they have assumed a position that bears great responsibilities so  if they fall and then repent we should certainly be supportive,don't you agree?

I'm Forgiven,and everytime I err I'm Forgiven- I can at least pay it forward...

 

With love in Christ,Kwik

A measure of maturity is extending the same grace to others we so desperately need ourselves.

Amen, sis.