Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[George]

4 minutes ago, The Light said:

Many on these forums don't think that the feasts of God have anything to do with end times. All the things regarding the feasts and Jewish wedding customs are crucial in understand God plan.

That's their loss. 

Anyone who wants to have a more intimate relationship with the Lord should learn God's appointment schedule. 

 The term SEASONS ... Gen 1:14  And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,  ... is the SAME WORD for FEAST ... Moadim ... the Biblical FEASTS are simply God's appointment schedule, and what we've seen and what we are to expect.

How can someone learn that He is the Passover Lamb, without understanding Passover?  

So why do we study the feasts?  Because they are directly connected to Yeshua (Jesus)!

You can lead a horse to water -- but he doesn't have to drink! 

 

[FreeGrace]

47 minutes ago, The Light said:

If that were true why are there 24 elders in heaven with crowns?

Revelation 4

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

There are uncounted multitudes of saved believers in heaven right now.  Where does Scripture indicate these came out of the Tribulation?  It doesn't.  Some scholars say they represent saints that have already died, over the 6K years of human history.

Edited December 15, 2022 by FreeGrace

[FreeGrace]

31 minutes ago, The Light said:

Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood.

Matthew 24

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

This is only about the condition of the earth dwellers just prior to each event.  That's what is being compared.  There is nothing of significance to Noah being in the ark 7 days before the flood.  Certainly not anything about a pre-trib rapture.  Although those who hold to that idea require things to "hang their hat on".

31 minutes ago, The Light said:

Revelation 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Why would anyone equate "redeemed" with "raptured"?  There is no mention of a glorified trip to heaven here.  And the last half of the chapter is about the battle of Armageddon and about 180 miles of blood as high as a horse's bridle.  That would be the Second Advent.

[George]

2 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

There are uncounted multitudes of saved believers in heaven right now?  Where does Scripture indicate these came out of the Tribulation?

Rev 7:9  After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 

Rev 7:10  and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 

Rev 7:11  And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 

Rev 7:12  saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.” 

Rev 7:13  Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” 

Rev 7:14  I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The scriptures do talk about a vast multitude in heaven that came out of the Tribulation ... BEFORE it appears the bowl judgments.

Rev 7:2  Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 

Rev 7:3  saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

Just throwing that out for a discussion point!

 

[FreeGrace]

25 minutes ago, The Light said:

Luke 21

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The second Advent occurs at the end of wrath. We have proven the Jesus comes at the end of the tribulation at the 6th seal. This is the gathering from heaven and earth that occurs BEFORE the day of the Lord, not at the end of wrath.

This simply compares the condition of mankind before the flood to mankind before the tribulation.  They were unprepared in both events.

25 minutes ago, The Light said:

 

2 Thes 2

 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

You should be able to determine that the gathering from heaven and earth is before the Day of the Lord (day of Christ) and not at the end of wrath when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven.

I love this passage.  It states plainly that the Second Advent and the living believers being "gathered together" occurs at the same time.  Refer back to 1 Thess 4.

This verse proves there will be no pre-trib rapture with trip to heaven.  When Jesus comes back at the Second Advent, it is to win the battle of Armageddon, end the Tribulation, and set up the MK.  

[FreeGrace]

4 minutes ago, George said:

Rev 7:9  After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 

Rev 7:10  and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 

Rev 7:11  And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 

Rev 7:12  saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.” 

Rev 7:13  Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” 

Rev 7:14  I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The scriptures do talk about a vast multitude in heaven that came out of the Tribulation ... BEFORE it appears the bowl judgments.

Rev 7:2  Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 

Rev 7:3  saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

Just throwing that out for a discussion point!

 

And what is the discussion point?  Thanks.

[George]

10 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

There are uncounted multitudes of saved believers in heaven right now.  Where does Scripture indicate these came out of the Tribulation?  It doesn't.  Some scholars say they represent saints that have already died, over the 6K years of human history.

... and the Scriptures indicate that there will be Tribulation saints in Heaven ... that's the discussion point.

[George]

... another aspect one should look over is the Wedding parable of Matthew 22.

Mat 22:5  But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 

Mat 22:6  while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 

Mat 22:7  The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

... before the marriage feast, the King sent His armies.  But if you go to war, one who is betrothed or one who is recently married (must wait a year) cannot go to war yet.

Just some food for thought!

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

No, you did. There are two raptures. The first will be for the Church. It will be like the days of Noah and Noah was safely sealed in the ark 7 days before the flood.

The second rapture will be for the 12 tribes across the earth. It will be like the days of Lot where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

 

Thanks for that.

[FreeGrace]

59 minutes ago, George said:

... and the Scriptures indicate that there will be Tribulation saints in Heaven ... that's the discussion point.

Well, of course there will be.  They are martyrs.  They are killed and they go to heaven.

How can "tribulation saints" be raptured if they have been IN the tribulation?  Doesn't make sense.  They would have to be pre-tribulation saints to support a pre-trib rapture.

But since there will be saints that were killed resurrected at the Second Advent, and there is ONLY ONE resurrection of the saved, and 1 Cor 15:23 says all believers will be resurrected when He comes, there is no way there will be a pretrib resurrection/rapture.