Michael Heiser - The Unseen Realm

[David1701]

3 hours ago, Alive said:

I do not agree with Heiser in all things, but that smaller article, at least, misrepresents what Heiser says.

You would have to read his books yourself to know that.

The more I look, the more I find Evangelical Christians who consider Heiser's teaching to be deceptive and heretical.  Here is another link.

https://www.internetbiblefellowship.com/uploads/2/9/0/9/29090449/unseen_realm_boundary_breaches.pdf

I'm becoming very concerned about several posters on Worthy, who seem to be enamoured with his doctrine.

Edited November 6, 2022 by David1701

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, David1701 said:

The more I look, the more I find Evangelical Christians who consider Heiser's teaching to be deceptive and heretical.  Here is another link.

https://www.internetbiblefellowship.com/uploads/2/9/0/9/29090449/unseen_realm_boundary_breaches.pdf

I'm becoming very concerned about several posters on Worthy, who seem to be enamoured with his doctrine.

I think, like many things, some of his stuff appeals to the fantastical. There have been some members here who are gone now, talking about things that should not be.

David, I do think some folks have come against Michael unfairly in some cases regarding some reasonably sound exegesis. Again, there are those fringe things where I think he treads poorly. He is honest about it and does not intend to deceive. IMO, his most helpful position is understanding something of culture, beliefs and presuppositions of the writers and audience.

[David1701]

57 minutes ago, Alive said:

I think, like many things, some of his stuff appeals to the fantastical. There have been some members here who are gone now, talking about things that should not be.

David, I do think some folks have come against Michael unfairly in some cases regarding some reasonably sound exegesis. Again, there are those fringe things where I think he treads poorly. He is honest about it and does not intend to deceive. IMO, his most helpful position is understanding something of culture, beliefs and presuppositions of the writers and audience.

Is it not the case that, when he mentions culture, he often means pagan culture?

What did you think of the PDF to which I linked?

[Alive]

13 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Is it not the case that, when he mentions culture, he often means pagan culture?

What did you think of the PDF to which I linked?

I only read the short article.

Yes, he references the cultures that surrounded Israel and the writers of scripture. Just as we do daily, we are influenced by our surroundings and react against it in many cases. Its a human thing.

Its important to go to a source rather than repeat what may not be accurate or honorable. I think of much of the news in the same way. Repeating questionable material about folks is a gossip.

I am not intending to correct you, but rather to offer my thoughts.

I have read two or three of his books I own and listened to several hours of his lectures, so I have a pretty good handle on the guy, as well as email exchanges.

[Justin Adams]

I suggest you listen to Dr. Heiser's Colosssians podcast #225. Even just the intro gives a fair idea of who he is and where he is coming from. There are many detractors of Dr. Heiser, especially the "JEDP" guys, and the 'Sethite' believers that pick up on the Augustinian (platonic) ideas that the RCC later based much of their faulty theology on.

I see Dr. Heiser as being correct most of the time and he uses peer reviewed scholarship for most of his stuff. His bibliography of Unseen Realm is larger than many books he writes. He uses other scholars' works and makes them understandable for the lay person.

[David1701]

21 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I suggest you listen to Dr. Heiser's Colosssians podcast #225. Even just the intro gives a fair idea of who he is and where he is coming from. There are many detractors of Dr. Heiser, especially the "JEDP" guys, and the 'Sethite' believers that pick up on the Augustinian (platonic) ideas that the RCC later based much of their faulty theology on.

I see Dr. Heiser as being correct most of the time and he uses peer reviewed scholarship for most of his stuff. His bibliography of Unseen Realm is larger than many books he writes. He uses other scholars' works and makes them understandable for the lay person.

I tried to listen to Heiser's Colossians podcast 225, but I could only stand it for about half an hour.  It was truly awful; and I find it hard to see how a Spirit-filled believer could listen to much of his teaching, if that is a representative sample.  For someone who was supposed to be introducing the book of Colossians, there was hardly anything about Colossians in what he said!  There was plenty about apocryphal books, and some very dubious assumptions about the meaning of Elohim (he believes in gods, but of course he's not polytheistic, oh no).  I found it simultaneously tedious and dubious.  It came across to me like dry intellectual speculations, rather than Spirit-led, biblical exegesis.