When Groaning and Sighing Become Spiritual

[Mr. M]

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

Intimacy with the Spirit can be found in HIS praying and our listening and watching.

Romans 8:

26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray

for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession

for the saints according to the will of God.

When groaning and sighing become spiritual...

Mark 7:34 Then, looking up to heaven, He sighed, and said to him,

“Ephphatha,” that is, “Be opened.”

Mark 8:12 But He sighed deeply in His spirit, and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign?

Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation.”

John 11:38 Then Jesus, again groaning in Himself, came to the tomb.

It was a cave, and a stone lay against it.

We will have this experience when we walk as He walked.

Psalms 38:9 Lord, all my desire is before thee; and my groaning is not hid from thee.

Exodus 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel whom the Egyptians

keep in bondage, and I have remembered My covenant.

"Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you". James 4

:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

The purpose of God and the meaning of life simply put:

The degree to which we draw near to God, whom we cannot see in this life,

establishes our place in His Presence for eternity, and is found in the low seat.

Luke 14:

10 But when you are invited, go and sit down in the lowest place, so that

when he who invited you comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, go up higher.’

Then you will have glory in the presence of those who sit at the table with you.

11 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

As faithful ambassadors for Christ.

Psalms 73:

28 But it is good for me to draw near to God;

I have put my trust in the Lord God,

That I may declare all Your works.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Mr. M
cosmetic

[ChristB4us]

On 11/19/2022 at 11:49 AM, Mr. M said:

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

Intimacy with the Spirit can be found in HIS praying and our listening and watching.

Romans 8:

26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray

for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession

for the saints according to the will of God.

When groaning and sighing become spiritual...

@TheBlade

"With groanings which cannot be uttered" in the KJV means the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His own groanings from Himself.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  KJV

If you check John 16:13 in all bibles, His word testifies that the Holy Spirit cann0t speak from himself but speak what He hears.

So for Matthew 6:8 to be true that the father knows before we even ask anything i n prayer, thus means that the Holy Spirit makes silent intercessions for every believer at any time and at any place.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

That's an additional good news for every believer.

Edited May 2, 2023 by ChristB4us

[R. Hartono]

13 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

@TheBlade

"With groanings which cannot be uttered" in the KJV means the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His own groanings from Himself.

Wrong. Thats about Glosolalia.

[R. Hartono]

On 1/10/2023 at 3:08 AM, TheBlade said:

Something I don't read allot about

Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Praying in the spirit (tongues Luke 11:13)

Theologians do not believe in Glosolalia. They just believe what suit them instead of following the early church practice.

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

Wrong. Thats about Glosolalia.

Okay then. 

Are you saying that for all non-tongue speakers believers in Jesus Christ that they do not have the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is not making any intercessions for them out loud?

If no, then why only tongue speakers have that bonus?  Is God evil by showing partiality within the body of Christ?  No.

So how can the Holy Spirit turn God's gift of tongues around when it is for speaking unto the people for the Holy Spirit to use it for speaking supposedly back to God?

Indeed how can one know it is not when supposedly the Holy Spirit is self edifying that tongue speaker instead?

And yet Paul was exhorting prophesy over all spiritual gifts from 1 Corinthians 14:1 and began to show why by comparing tongues against prophesy because for the tongue speaker, he has to pray for an interpretation from another while the Holy Spirit is manifesting tongues in him so that the tongue speaker may understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself  as a tongue speaker and that is why prophesy is better than tongues in the assembly.

If you do not have an answer for those questions, basing on what Romans 8:26-27 is really all about in the KJV, maybe somebody else will have that answer.

I do not believe tongues gained by that apostate calling of seeking the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues is the gospel of Jesus Christ at all but inviting seekers & sinners to seek salvation by that sign of tongue.

Matthew 12:138 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.... 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Our salvation is by believing in Jesus Christ;  not by that sign of tongues.

Thank you for participating, but I believe praying normally is better for all believers to know what they had prayed for to give the Father genuine thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

Theologians do not believe in Glosolalia. They just believe what suit them instead of following the early church practice.

Church practices has God's gift of tongues coming with interpretation and so never for private use as 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 KJV

Tongue speakers today takes 1 Corinthians 14:2,4,&14 out of context and glossing over the precedent for those gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 as never for private use but to benefit or profit the body of the assembly withal.

Indeed, Paul was exhorting believers to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts from 1 Corinthians 14:1 and began showing why by comparing tongues against prophesy that tongues is not a stand alone gift because the tongue speakers has to pray for interpretation while the Holy Spirit is manifesting tongues thru him so that the tongue speakers can understand that tongue for that tongue to be fruitful to himself.  

So in light of 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 and in light of 1 Corinthians 14th Chapter in its entirety, God's gift of tongues can edify the tongue speaker when it is interpreted for why prophesy is the better gift for all believers to seek after and not tongues.

Indeed, in case readers were misunderstanding him, Paul clarified what tongues were for in verses 20-22 that they were of other men's lips to speak unto the people and were not to serve as a sign to the believers for anything, including as proof of receiving that baptism with the Holy Ghost. 

Tongues were a sign or proof to the unbelievers for why seekers and sinners are not to seek salvation by a sign of that tongue but by faith in Jesus Christ. 

It is by believing in Him is how one is born again of the Spirit where tongues do not serve as proof to the believer that they are saved.

 

[other one]

5 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

Church practices has God's gift of tongues coming with interpretation and so never for private use as 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 KJV

Tongue speakers today takes 1 Corinthians 14:2,4,&14 out of context and glossing over the precedent for those gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 as never for private use but to benefit or profit the body of the assembly withal.

Indeed, Paul was exhorting believers to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts from 1 Corinthians 14:1 and began showing why by comparing tongues against prophesy that tongues is not a stand alone gift because the tongue speakers has to pray for interpretation while the Holy Spirit is manifesting tongues thru him so that the tongue speakers can understand that tongue for that tongue to be fruitful to himself.  

So in light of 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 and in light of 1 Corinthians 14th Chapter in its entirety, God's gift of tongues can edify the tongue speaker when it is interpreted for why prophesy is the better gift for all believers to seek after and not tongues.

Indeed, in case readers were misunderstanding him, Paul clarified what tongues were for in verses 20-22 that they were of other men's lips to speak unto the people and were not to serve as a sign to the believers for anything, including as proof of receiving that baptism with the Holy Ghost. 

Tongues were a sign or proof to the unbelievers for why seekers and sinners are not to seek salvation by a sign of that tongue but by faith in Jesus Christ. 

It is by believing in Him is how one is born again of the Spirit where tongues do not serve as proof to the believer that they are saved.

 

You seem to have a real problem with tongues...   what's up with that?

[Mr. M]

21 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

@TheBlade

"With groanings which cannot be uttered" in the KJV means the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His own groanings from Himself.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  KJV

If you check John 16:13 in all bibles, His word testifies that the Holy Spirit cann0t speak from himself but speak what He hears.

So for Matthew 6:8 to be true that the father knows before we even ask anything i n prayer, thus means that the Holy Spirit makes silent intercessions for every believer at any time and at any place.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

That's an additional good news for every believer.

Hebrews 7:24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

When the Son intercedes, the Spirit responds with groanings that cannot be expressed in words, for they are spiritual prayers, not human.

2 Co 12:3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

What we cannot express in words, results in groanings within us.

Romans 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

When the Son intercedes, the Spirit responds with groanings that cannot be expressed in words, for they are spiritual prayers, not human.

Amen! I am glad you posted this verse and the others as well.

In my own experience over the years, this is what I have seen to be the case. Each time when this occurs, there is a wonderful joyous sense of both profound peace and joy in His very presence.

Either when there is a great need or an outpouring of praise...or actually both.

He is Gracious.

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, other one said:

You seem to have a real problem with tongues...   what's up with that?

There is God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people for why it will come with interpretation in the assembly and then there is that supernatural tongue which is gibberish nonsense for why believers should not believe that to be also God's gift of tongues by assuming it is for private use just because it comes with no interpretation.

They should discern that it is a world's tongue to shun and pray normally instead with His help.