The souls under the altar (Rev. 6:9-11); are they killed before or during the tribulation period?

[Markie51]

It seems to me that these anointed were killed/martyred before-even thought their number (144,00) had not to be fulfilled.-Revelation 6:11.

[iamlamad]

On 12/15/2022 at 2:32 PM, The Light said:

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

I got some more truth for you. The second seal will be opened between the 1st and 3rd seal. Let's get crazy. The fourth seal will be opened between the 3rd and 5th seal. We are on a roll.

 

The final week will begin when the seals are opened. There is only one year left in the final 7 years when the 7th seal is opened.

The final week begins with the confirming of the covenant and the seals are opened at that time. Only 1 year remains at the 7th seal opening. It is a year of Gods wrath.

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The final week will begin when the seals are opened.

Nonsense! Anyone can pull verses out of their context to fit their pet theories. Let's leave the first seals IN their context, which is Revelation 4 & 5.

In summary form:

Jesus NOT SEEN in the throne room: this tells us the TIMING of this vision is during the 32 years Jesus was on earth, so NOT IN the throne room.

The Holy Spirit still in the throne room: this tells us that the TIMEING of the vision here is BEFORE Christ ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down.

Jesus NOT FOUND worthy to take the book and open the seals at the first search John was allowed to watch: this tells us that at this time in the vision Jesus and NOT YET risen from the dead.

Jesus FOUND WORTHY in a subsequent search: this PINPOINTS the time in the vision as when Jesus rose from the dead. This is confirmed by the next verses: Jesus suddenly appearing in the throne room, looking like a lamb having been slain. This is JESUS immediately after He ascended.

This is confirmed because John then wrote that the Holy Spirit (In the previous chapter seen in the throne room) is not sent down.

All this tells us WHEN Jesus got the book and began opening the seals.

Seal 1 opened around 32 AD. This is the CHURCH sent out with the gospel.

Seals 2, 3, & 4: Tis is the devil trying to stop the spreading of the gospel.

Seal five, IN CONTEXT is the martyrs caused by Satan trying to stop the advance of the gospel.

[The Light]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Nonsense! Anyone can pull verses out of their context to fit their pet theories. Let's leave the first seals IN their context, which is Revelation 4 & 5.

Hogwash! Revelation 4 is a vision of what has not happened yet. Revelation 5 reads like Revelation 12 as in part of Revelation 12 happened long ago and part of Revelation 12 has not yet happened yet. Revelation 5 has the same format. Part of Revelation 5 happened long ago and part of Revelation 5 will happen in the future, which is why we see kings and priests in heaven after 24 elders with crowns show up.

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

In summary form:

Jesus NOT SEEN in the throne room: this tells us the TIMING of this vision is during the 32 years Jesus was on earth, so NOT IN the throne room.

The Holy Spirit still in the throne room: this tells us that the TIMEING of the vision here is BEFORE Christ ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down.

Jesus NOT FOUND worthy to take the book and open the seals at the first search John was allowed to watch: this tells us that at this time in the vision Jesus and NOT YET risen from the dead.

Jesus FOUND WORTHY in a subsequent search: this PINPOINTS the time in the vision as when Jesus rose from the dead. This is confirmed by the next verses: Jesus suddenly appearing in the throne room, looking like a lamb having been slain. This is JESUS immediately after He ascended.

This is confirmed because John then wrote that the Holy Spirit (In the previous chapter seen in the throne room) is not sent down.

As I said. Revelation 5 reads like Revelation 12.

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

All this tells us WHEN Jesus got the book and began opening the seals.

Seal 1 opened around 32 AD. This is the CHURCH sent out with the gospel.

Seals 2, 3, & 4: Tis is the devil trying to stop the spreading of the gospel.

Seal five, IN CONTEXT is the martyrs caused by Satan trying to stop the advance of the gospel.

Balderdash! You think the 1st seal is the Church spreading the Gospel? Poppycock! The 1st seal is not about the Church spreading the Gospel, it is a false Christ. It is the Beast of the Earth, the rider on white horse. Use some common sense. What John tells us in Revelation 6 is exactly what Jesus tells us in Matthew 24.

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Hogwash! Revelation 4 is a vision of what has not happened yet. Revelation 5 reads like Revelation 12 as in part of Revelation 12 happened long ago and part of Revelation 12 has not yet happened yet. Revelation 5 has the same format. Part of Revelation 5 happened long ago and part of Revelation 5 will happen in the future, which is why we see kings and priests in heaven after 24 elders with crowns show up.

As I said. Revelation 5 reads like Revelation 12.

Balderdash! You think the 1st seal is the Church spreading the Gospel? Poppycock! The 1st seal is not about the Church spreading the Gospel, it is a false Christ. It is the Beast of the Earth, the rider on white horse. Use some common sense. What John tells us in Revelation 6 is exactly what Jesus tells us in Matthew 24.

Like I said, anyone can pull verses out of their context. You did just that.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

This is when Jesus got the book into HIS hands. In Context, WHEN was that?

Verse six gives is the time: Jesus had just ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. WHEN was the Holy Spirit sent down? Perhaps 32 AD.

Please show us the verse or verses where you add nearly 2000 years between these verses and verse 6:1.

[The Light]

24 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Like I said, anyone can pull verses out of their context. You did just that.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

This is when Jesus got the book into HIS hands. In Context, WHEN was that?

Verse six gives is the time: Jesus had just ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. WHEN was the Holy Spirit sent down? Perhaps 32 AD.

Please show us the verse or verses where you add nearly 2000 years between these verses and verse 6:1.

As I told you, Revelation 5 reads like Revelation 12. We see that there are 24 elders in heaven with crowns in Revelation 4. That means Jesus has returned. Then Revelation 5 goes back to an earlier time. Then we see the Church in heaven. THEN the seals are opened.

Revelation 4

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

It is you that are pulling things out of context. You think the seals are opened, which is ridiculous. When those seals are open, the world is going to know. You also think that the rider on the white horse, which carries a bow, as does Apollo, the false Christ, who is Horus of Egypt, who is Tammuz of Babylon, is Jesus Christ. The world is waiting for the false savior as evidenced by the eye of Horus on the back of the dollar bill. You claim that the 1st seal is good when it is evil. All the seals, war, famine, pestilences, and the great tribulation are things that come on the earth that are not good,................. but the 1st seal is good? You need some common sense and you need to keep things in context. After the rapture of the Church happens the seals can be opened with the confirming of a 7 year covenant. Do you think that Christ makes a 7 year covenant or an eternal covenant? Common sense. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

As I told you, Revelation 5 reads like Revelation 12.

I don't believe you. The timing of Revelation 5 is just before, at and just after Jesus' resurrection.

If you believe what you wrote, please show us comparisons that cause you to believe it.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

 We see that there are 24 elders in heaven with crowns in Revelation 4. That means Jesus has returned.

No one really knows who those 24 elders are.  Some may think they know. In the context of chapter 4, Jesus NOT SEEN in the throne room, I suspect they are Old Testament saints. It is only a guess. 

It does not in any way prove that Jesus has returned.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Then Revelation 5 goes back to an earlier time. Then we see the Church in heaven. THEN the seals are opened.

WHERE do we see the church in heaven? I see it in chapter 7 as the great crowd too large to number. Where you see it here?

What do you mean by going back to an earlier time? Explain this with scripture.

Who did John see seated on the throne in chapter 4?

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

It is you that are pulling things out of context. You think the seals are opened, which is ridiculous. 

It seems you have "truth" and "ridiculous" mixed up.

Please explain how I have pulled any verse out of context.

This is in the Revelation of Jesus Christ book. HE, Jesus Christ, is the main theme of the book.

Please then, show us where Jesus is in chapter 4.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

When those seals are open, the world is going to know. You also think that the rider on the white horse, which carries a bow, as does Apollo, the false Christ, who is Horus of Egypt, who is Tammuz of Babylon, is Jesus Christ. The world is waiting for the false savior as evidenced by the eye of Horus on the back of the dollar bill. You claim that the 1st seal is good when it is evil. 

Did the world Know when the gospel spread to Samaria? Probably not. Did the world pay attention when the gospel spread to Rome? Probably not. 

Did the world know that God allowed Satan to use wars, famines, pestilences and wild beasts in an attempt to stop the advance of the gospel in that one fourth of the earth where God limited them? Probably not. All the world knew is that wars, pestilences and famines took place.

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You claim that the 1st seal is good when it is evil. 

Please show us ONE WORD in the description that proves evil.