The souls under the altar (Rev. 6:9-11); are they killed before or during the tribulation period?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The fact that you don't understand this is no great wonder. You look for the Church that is mentioned 19 times in the 1st three chapters and not mentioned again until the end of Revelation and it never dawns on you as to why. 

ARE YOU SURE IT IS ME

THAT THESE THINGS HAVE NEVER DAWNED ON? 

YOU DON'T SEEM TO REALIZE; I HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR 5 YEARS FOR ANSWERS THAT NEVER COME.  You and I, we haven't even begun to get into the problems.  We are still but scratching the surface of ALL THE PROBLEMS this doctrine causes.   OH, and before it happens and it will meaning YOU GET MAD and end the conversation, just want to say it isn't personal.  It truly isn't.  


Cant WAIT until we hear some of GODS words.  SPECULATION on what GOD DIDN'T SAY now being put forth as fact.  

SO TAKING OFF OUR ROSE COLORED PRE TRIB GLASSES,

WHY ISN'T THE CHURCH MENTIONED?  

1.   at the end of EVERY message, your answer found.  

11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
 

BUT you say IMMEDIATELY after speaking these words
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 
and these words
16Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
and these words
23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

He takes them to heaven????  


2. since the whole world is deceived, and there has been the falling away, exactly WHO do you think THE CHURCHES OF THE WORLD BE WORSHIPPING?  You know, the daily sacrifice and oblation taken away.  

what or where do you think they should be mentioned and in what context?  What more do you think needed to be addressed?   

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Rebuking God's plan for the Church? You probably need a little lamp oil so you can see.

Its becomes so natural you probably dont even notice it or if you do think it is a problem.  

DID I REBUKE GODS PLAN?  NO, so WHY THE QUESTION ASKED LIKE THAT?  Never mind, everyone knows.  

DO YOU have any Scripture to share on 'GOD HAS A PLAN FOR THE 'CHURCH'?  

or are you going to say there is a church age, or that the church is the Gentile church and those who sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

should be 'pre trib raptured'

BUT NOT THE DESCENDANTS of Judah WHO ARE KEEPING THE LAW.

[The Light]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

ALL YOU SEE IS PRE TRIB and it is at the cost of all truth.  

Oh no. I see pretrib and prewrath. And of course you are unable to see either. Nothing to praise God about.

[The Light]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

AGAIN, we have to keep SATAN from breaking into our house. Christ may come like a thief in the night TO THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW

but THE THIEF SPOKEN OF HERE JESUS HIMSELF ADDRESSED

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10 KJV

BUT EVEN THIS DOESN'T in the SLIGHTEST WAY SUGGEST there is going to be a PRE 2ND ADVENT, PRE DAY OF WRATH, PRE DAY OF THE LORD

COMING OF THE LORD.  AND I don't SEE IT BECAUSE IT ISN'T THERE.  




Where is the FOUNDATION? 

It isn't in 'every man dies and then judgment'
 (EXCEPT for the VERY last day OF THE ENTIRE AGE when heaven IS BECOMING THE 'SEEN' WORLD IN WHICH WE WILL LIVE therefore ALL WHO ARE ALIVE HAVE TO BE CHANGED because there will be no longer any flesh and blood bodies)


It isn't in don't seek to save your life OR you will lose it  but pre trib does

It isn't in put on the gospel armor to withstand the fiery darts of Satan

It isn't in some of you will be given up to the devil for 10 day trial

It isn't in WHEN YE SHALL SEE THE ABOMINIATION

It isn't in THE DAY WE ARE GATHERED ISN'T UNTIL AFTER THE WORKINGS OF Satan

It isn't in pick up your cross and follow me to be WORTHY of the kingdom

It isn't in Don't take the mark of the beast

It isn't in ENDURE TO THE END TO RECEIVE

It isn't in ONE BODY

I could go on and on and on in all the PLACES IT ISN'T FOUND and I probably should because

EVERYONE of them will show how PRE TRIB stands in the face of LIKE EVERYTHING written we are told to be doing


yet I am supposed TO DROP EVERYTHING I can CLEARLY POINT TO AND SAY IT IS WRITTEN do this

IN FAVOR OF SOMETHING THAT

"I should be able to but am refusing to see"

THAT ISN'T WRITTEN. 

 Let's see, if it isn't written, then WHO DID IT COME FROM? 




AND here is the REALLY SCARY PART FOR YOU, 

I don't think He is coming pre trib,

while you do

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

So your THINKING HE COMES PRE TRIB negates you from being able to be raptured.  

IN SUCH AN HOUR, which 'hour' is pre trib.  


Which I don't know but you know what hour you don't expect?  WHEN YOU DIE.  

Like I said, we can drop pretrib. How could you possibly see it? However, I can't figure out how it is possible for you not to see that Jesus comes at the 6th seal before wrath. 

No use in me posting any scripture. I have posted and posted and posted it and you just can't see. It's just the way it is. Some are short on lamp oil.

[The Light]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Its becomes so natural you probably dont even notice it or if you do think it is a problem.  

DID I REBUKE GODS PLAN?  NO, so WHY THE QUESTION ASKED LIKE THAT?  Never mind, everyone knows.  

DO YOU have any Scripture to share on 'GOD HAS A PLAN FOR THE 'CHURCH'?  

or are you going to say there is a church age, or that the church is the Gentile church and those who sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

should be 'pre trib raptured'

BUT NOT THE DESCENDANTS of Judah WHO ARE KEEPING THE LAW.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

I'm not holding out any hope that you will understand it.

[DeighAnn]

29 minutes ago, The Light said:

Like I said, we can drop pretrib. How could you possibly see it? However, I can't figure out how it is possible for you not to see that Jesus comes at the 6th seal before wrath. 

No use in me posting any scripture. I have posted and posted and posted it and you just can't see. It's just the way it is. Some are short on lamp oil.

6th seal - 12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


When does the moon become as blood?  

1. BEFORE the day of the Lord
2. On the Day of the Lord
3. AFTER the day of the Lord.  


WE ARE GIVEN in the words of GOD the ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION 

SO we can either 

1. believe it
2. believe some other doctrine instead

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:" Acts 2:20 KJV

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come." Joel 2:31 KJV


 THE MOON BECOMES AS BLOOD IN THE 6TH SEAL

AND THE MOON BECOMES AS BLOOD  "BEFORE'

THE DAY OF THE LORD

So, THE LORD can't RETURN IN THE 6TH SEAL?  


Not saying that they don't SEE THE HEAVENS OPEN UP at the end of the 6th seal,  because that is when the two witnesses are killed and the heavens open up
just saying Christ isn't found ANY WHERE THERE AT ANY TIME



12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Two witnesses arriving

13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Satan and angels cast to earth

14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Satans kingdom comes to full power

the two witnesses killed

heaven opens up
 

15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

the day ISN'T HERE YET, but it will be in an hour

 

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

52 minutes ago, The Light said:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE CHURCH being taken to heaven?  Where is the church mentioned?  Where is Christ coming?  Where is the church gathered?  


JUST THE SAME AS EVERY SINGLE VERSE, lots of conjecture, assumption, and conclusions from a whole lot of  VERSES THAT NEVER MENTION Pre trib or the church and STILL .  

NOT ONE SINGLE SOLID FOUNDATION VERSE FROM WHICH TO BUILD UPON.  


Or are you saying the HEATHEN/gentiles are the church??  not that it would change anything, just wondering....



25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;

that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months." Revelation 11:2 KJV


AND THEY SHALL BE SAVED

And once again, you are correct, I will NEVER see or understand 

how or why anyone would believe what ISN'T written over what is.  

 

[The Light]

14 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 THE MOON BECOMES AS BLOOD IN THE 6TH SEAL

AND THE MOON BECOMES AS BLOOD  "BEFORE'

THE DAY OF THE LORD

So, THE LORD can't RETURN IN THE 6TH SEAL?  


 

What are you talking about. So the Lord can't RETURN AT THE 6TH SEAL?

OPEN YOU EYES. Have you no understanding?

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Are you able to read those verses in Matthew 24 and comprehend that Jesus comes in power and glory?

Are you able to comprehend the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars?

I have posted this so many times and still you are unable to get it.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Are you able to see the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 6. If Jesus comes in Matthew 24 when we see those cosmic signs you ought to be able to determine that JESUS COMES AT THE THE 6TH SEAL BEFORE WRATH.

Now explain to me why you are continually incapable of comprehending that Jesus returns at the 6th seal.

[Montana Marv]

I look at these under the Altar by their request.  Avenge our blood

If one looks at Stephen the first Church Martyr who was stoned. His request; Lord do not hold this sin against them.  Big contrast,  both ends of the scale.

We as Believers are to bless and not to ask for a curse upon someone.  For we already know, Vengeance is mine, says the Lord.  No need for us to ask for retribution as members of the Church, the Bride of Christ.  They must be a malignancy of the true Church then, or not of the Church at all.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[kenny2212]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

I look at these under the Altar by their request.  Avenge our blood

If one looks at Stephen the first Church Martyr who was stoned. His request; Lord do not hold this sin against them.  Big contrast,  both ends of the scale.

We as Believers are to bless and not to ask for a curse upon someone.  For we already know, Vengeance is mine, says the Lord.  No need for us to ask for retribution as members of the Church, the Bride of Christ.  They must be a malignancy of the true Church then, or not of the Church at all.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The souls under the altar didn't ask for vengeance, they asked how long till vengeance. There's a significant difference between asking for vengeance and asking how long till vengeance. Surely the Lord will repay.

Romans 12:19b (NKJV) - For it is written "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.

So the issue isn't asking for God to avenge (for he will), the issue is being able to wait patiently for the time when He avenges.

Revelation 6:9-11 (NKJV) - 9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by kenny2212

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

The souls under the altar didn't ask for vengeance, they asked how long till vengeance. There's a significant difference between asking for vengeance and asking how long till vengeance. Surely the Lord will repay.

Romans 12:19b (NKJV) - For it is written "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.

So the issue isn't asking for God to avenge (for he will), the issue is being able to wait patiently for the time when He avenges.

Revelation 6:9-11 (NKJV) - 9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. 

My vengeance for others was nailed on the Cross.  We are to ask for forgiveness for those who harm us, not revenge.   Their blood should have been avenged 2000 years ago when Jesus died on the Cross, not in the future.  Yet if they are not N.T. Believers filled with the Holy Spirit as we are, then they can ask for retribution.

In Christ

Montana Marv