Reconciling 6 Days with 13.7 Billion Years

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

13 hours ago, BeyondET said:

In English the word has about two meanings the day time amount of sunlight and day length. The Hebrew word for day is yom which has more than two meanings. One being an unknown length of time. Similar to evening and morning, dusk or dawn can only be known with a mechanical clock.

I agree with you, however I believe that in every instance that "yom" is used in reference to a numerical number, it's always a literal 24 hour day. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I agree with you, however I believe that in every instance that "yom" is used in reference to a numerical number, it's always a literal 24 hour day. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

The only place I see it associated with a number is in the creation story, and there the text indicates that they are not literal days. (can't have literal mornings and evenings without a sun)  If there's a number associated with it, that indicates that it's not a literal day.

 

[DeighAnn]

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

How but billions of universes, and it took that many to get to this universe.

Speaking on creation nothing would be to surprising a bit of awestruck, anything is possible.

 I can believe that.  I put these things to test by imagining us standing in judgment. 

God asks the NEC believer why he believed 'The earth was brand new, only 13,000 years old?'

Response would be 'it is written in the beginning....so that I believed'.  

God asks was there EVER anything else you read or heard or saw that made you reconsider?  That person says nope just went with the first thing I learned.  Didn't care about all the evidence to the contrary.  That is what I believed, and nothing was ever going to change that.  Not the bringing of old and new.  Not the building on the foundation.  Nothing.


God asks the Old earth person why their belief.  
Their response is I did believe 'in the beginning' when I first began to study.  But one day I was shown right after the creation Satan was found in the garden.  THEN I read about his fall from grace and I was shown that could have only taken place before the garden.  As I gained more wisdom and knowledge, more and more things were opened up (Holy Spirit working in others and their sharing and Holy Spirit working in me).  Staring up at the stars at night though the vastness was overwhelming and past what I could imagine, there was no feeling of any of it being rushed, it FELT ANCIENT. Add to that the former things forgotten just as these days will be and I BUILT upon that foundation through pondering and prayer...

Hopefully everyone is preparing for that day in the same way, so that all this time doesn't just go up in smoke...

1 Corinth 2
3As for what is coming...WE LIVE on a corrupted earth.  If THIS is the state of corruption, I wholeheartedly believe 

4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


I have been blessed beyond all measure, in my opinion, living in the high desert, in a place where silence or the sounds of nature are most often heard, no lights of man to interrupt the moonless nights, to lay back and witness the universe while searching out the deep things of God.  Though not a 'word' do I hear, my thoughts are definitely not always my own, as I could never bring together what the works of God do. Put that together with the words of God I have studied and it's better than anywhere I have ever traveled, and I have been blessed to travel to many many places.  OK THEN.  I just think this planet is soooo beautiful and so vastly different from one place to another it just doesn't even begin to fit with what my own eyes see.

 

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 I can believe that.  I put these things to test by imagining us standing in judgment. 

God asks the NEC believer why he believed 'The earth was brand new, only 13,000 years old?'

Response would be 'it is written in the beginning....so that I believed'.  

God asks was there EVER anything else you read or heard or saw that made you reconsider?  That person says nope just went with the first thing I learned.  Didn't care about all the evidence to the contrary.  That is what I believed, and nothing was ever going to change that.  Not the bringing of old and new.  Not the building on the foundation.  Nothing.


God asks the Old earth person why their belief.  
Their response is I did believe 'in the beginning' when I first began to study.  But one day I was shown right after the creation Satan was found in the garden.  THEN I read about his fall from grace and I was shown that could have only taken place before the garden.  As I gained more wisdom and knowledge, more and more things were opened up (Holy Spirit working in others and their sharing and Holy Spirit working in me).  Staring up at the stars at night though the vastness was overwhelming and past what I could imagine, there was no feeling of any of it being rushed, it FELT ANCIENT. Add to that the former things forgotten just as these days will be and I BUILT upon that foundation through pondering and prayer...

Hopefully everyone is preparing for that day in the same way, so that all this time doesn't just go up in smoke...

1 Corinth 2
3As for what is coming...WE LIVE on a corrupted earth.  If THIS is the state of corruption, I wholeheartedly believe 

4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


I have been blessed beyond all measure, in my opinion, living in the high desert, in a place where silence or the sounds of nature are most often heard, no lights of man to interrupt the moonless nights, to lay back and witness the universe while searching out the deep things of God.  Though not a 'word' do I hear, my thoughts are definitely not always my own, as I could never bring together what the works of God do. Put that together with the words of God I have studied and it's better than anywhere I have ever traveled, and I have been blessed to travel to many many places.  OK THEN.  I just think this planet is soooo beautiful and so vastly different from one place to another it just doesn't even begin to fit with what my own eyes see.

 

I appreciated your two insightful observations at the start of your post!

[BeyondET]

10 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I agree with you, however I believe that in every instance that "yom" is used in reference to a numerical number, it's always a literal 24 hour day. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Time is used in place of yom when yom was used in many places in the old testament and it doesn't mean 24 hour day.

The people didn't even use a 24 hour system of knowing the days, seasons years. The hardest to know was the evening and morning, dusk/dawn when there is light but the sun isn't above the horizon to cast a shadow and its to bright to see stars.

the unknown zone 36mins each day before the mechanical clock,, evening and morning. If there was clouds for a month, certainly daily time when out the window.

Today it's known every planet is in a time bubble sort of. Even the galaxy is in its own time bubble with billions of little ones, a galactic yr is 240 million earth yrs. Along with most everything in the universe has its own. Earth spin gives a perspective of a 24 hour day from the surface, leave the earth and move away from it and perspective of time goes out the window. The 24 hour day is basically an ancient Egyptians invention.

Edited December 19, 2022 by BeyondET

[BeyondET]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 I can believe that.  I put these things to test by imagining us standing in judgment. 

God asks the NEC believer why he believed 'The earth was brand new, only 13,000 years old?'

Response would be 'it is written in the beginning....so that I believed'.  

God asks was there EVER anything else you read or heard or saw that made you reconsider?  That person says nope just went with the first thing I learned.  Didn't care about all the evidence to the contrary.  That is what I believed, and nothing was ever going to change that.  Not the bringing of old and new.  Not the building on the foundation.  Nothing.


God asks the Old earth person why their belief.  
Their response is I did believe 'in the beginning' when I first began to study.  But one day I was shown right after the creation Satan was found in the garden.  THEN I read about his fall from grace and I was shown that could have only taken place before the garden.  As I gained more wisdom and knowledge, more and more things were opened up (Holy Spirit working in others and their sharing and Holy Spirit working in me).  Staring up at the stars at night though the vastness was overwhelming and past what I could imagine, there was no feeling of any of it being rushed, it FELT ANCIENT. Add to that the former things forgotten just as these days will be and I BUILT upon that foundation through pondering and prayer...

Hopefully everyone is preparing for that day in the same way, so that all this time doesn't just go up in smoke...

1 Corinth 2
3As for what is coming...WE LIVE on a corrupted earth.  If THIS is the state of corruption, I wholeheartedly believe 

4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


I have been blessed beyond all measure, in my opinion, living in the high desert, in a place where silence or the sounds of nature are most often heard, no lights of man to interrupt the moonless nights, to lay back and witness the universe while searching out the deep things of God.  Though not a 'word' do I hear, my thoughts are definitely not always my own, as I could never bring together what the works of God do. Put that together with the words of God I have studied and it's better than anywhere I have ever traveled, and I have been blessed to travel to many many places.  OK THEN.  I just think this planet is soooo beautiful and so vastly different from one place to another it just doesn't even begin to fit with what my own eyes see.

 

When I was younger here I used to see more but today about 5 or so 😆 grown into a bustling place.

Must be a wonderful sight looking up in the desert without city lights hazing the view.

Think of this while looking up at the stars. All the stars you see are in our little milky way galaxy. A few fuzzy lights from a handful of other galaxies but that's it. The rest of the universe really can only be seen with a telescope, and not to far without advanced tele's.

Edited December 19, 2022 by BeyondET

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

12 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Time is used in place of yom when yom was used in many places in the old testament and it doesn't mean 24 hour day.

The people didn't even use a 24 hour system of knowing the days, seasons years. The hardest to know was the evening and morning, dusk/dawn when there is light but the sun isn't above the horizon to cast a shadow and its to bright to see stars.

the unknown zone 36mins each day before the mechanical clock,, evening and morning. If there was clouds for a month, certainly daily time when out the window.

Today it's known every planet is in a time bubble sort of. Even the galaxy is in its own time bubble with billions of little ones, a galactic yr is 240 million earth yrs. Along with most everything in the universe has its own. Earth spin gives a perspective of a 24 hour day from the surface, leave the earth and move away from it and perspective of time goes out the window. The 24 hour day is basically an ancient Egyptians invention.

So I know that the ancient people's didn't know there were 24 hours in a day. That's why Genesis says "the evening and the morning". It is difficult to try to symbolize such a specific wording. Evening and morning seems to very clearly indicate 1 day. I see nothing at all in that specific text to indicate it's not a literal day. Also, your correct that time is basically different in every part of the universe. For example, if there were lifeforms on Mars or a nearby star, they would not agree that the year is 2022.  God however seems to use the human frame of time ( which he actually created ) so we would understand how long things took. If he didn't mean actual days, I think he would have used different words. But I will trust the wisdom of God, which never changes, over the wisdom of man, which is constantly changing. I'll trust God who clearly says its young, over a million scientists who say it's old. ONLY from science would anyone think the earth might be old. You certainly can't get such an idea from scripture itself.

[BeyondET]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

So I know that the ancient people's didn't know there were 24 hours in a day. That's why Genesis says "the evening and the morning". It is difficult to try to symbolize such a specific wording. Evening and morning seems to very clearly indicate 1 day. I see nothing at all in that specific text to indicate it's not a literal day. Also, your correct that time is basically different in every part of the universe. For example, if there were lifeforms on Mars or a nearby star, they would not agree that the year is 2022.  God however seems to use the human frame of time ( which he actually created ) so we would understand how long things took. If he didn't mean actual days, I think he would have used different words. But I will trust the wisdom of God, which never changes, over the wisdom of man, which is constantly changing. I'll trust God who clearly says its young, over a million scientists who say it's old. ONLY from science would anyone think the earth might be old. You certainly can't get such an idea from scripture itself.

 I don't see anywhere that says it was a literal 24 hour day.

Certainly in the day when God created the heavens and earth and all their generations wasn't six literal days was it one literal day?

Where did God say in scripture the earth is young?.

Where is midnight and midday in a evening and morning 1 day.

Edited December 19, 2022 by BeyondET

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

7 hours ago, BeyondET said:

 I don't see anywhere that says it was a literal 24 hour day.

Certainly in the day when God created the heavens and earth and all their generations wasn't six literal days was it one literal day?

Where did God say in scripture the earth is young?.

Where is midnight and midday in a evening and morning 1 day.

So evening ( the sun going down ) and morning ( the sun coming up ) definitely seems to me like a regular day. The fact that only 1 mention of evening and morning for each "day" also indicates 1 regular day. That in itself would not prove the earth to be young,  BUT it also says Man AND animals were created on the 6th day,  meaning man and animals ( including dinosaurs ) were created at the same time.  I just can't understand how the days of creation were not regular days when the exact wording of it strongly indicates it was. 

[teddyv]

31 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I just can't understand how the days of creation were not regular days when the exact wording of it strongly indicates it was. 

I  see it as one reading the creation story through the lens of Modernity rather than the lens of the author or as the original audience would have understood it, cosmologically speaking.  I see theology and worldview as the priorities of Genesis.