What is 'the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ' referneced in 2nd Thessalonians?

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:29 PM, Wayne222 said:

The gospel which Paul preach. That Jesus died for our sins. And was buried and rose on the third day. The gospel is rejected by most of the world. They don't follow Jesus because they don't believe he rose from the dead. 

What is the gospel that Jesus preached?

Who is greater, Jesus or Paul?

[Waggles]

9 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

It's not about believing the correct message, it is about actually being led by the Holy Spirit.

But if you do not believe and act on the correct massage then one is unlikely to truly receive the Holy Spirit -

see Acts 8 and Acts 19 for examples of such.

John 4:23  But an hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for even such the Father seeketh as his worshippers. 
4:24  God is Spirit: and who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

Jesus teaches us that not all worshippers are TRUE worshippers.

So then this begs the question - who are these true worshippers who can worship in spirit and truth ??

John 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of the truth, who goeth forth from the Father, HE shall witness of me:

1Cor 14:2  For who speaketh in a tongue speaketh not to men, but to God; for no one heareth; but in spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Cor 14:14  For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my mind is unfruitful.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 12/30/2022 at 2:57 PM, Waggles said:

But if you do not believe and act on the correct massage then one is unlikely to truly receive the Holy Spirit

We receive the Holy Spirit for free by grace.

"Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"
Galatians 3:2

We don't have the Holy Spirit for nothing, the Holy Spirit is not a ticket or a branding,
the Holy Spirit is God interacting directly inside of us; the Helper, helping us overcome ourselves and the world.
[2 Corinthians 6:1-2,16-18,7:1]

That is Paul's message, I contend that the enemy has directly taken out some of Paul's words,
and twisted up others, just as Peter said would happen. [2 Peter 3:15-16]

"For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves,
the Holy Spirit is the gift of God, [Acts 2:38] not of works, lest any man should boast,
because we are His creation created in Christ Jesus for good works......."
Ephesians 2:8-10 through to 5:5

Indeed when we understand the message correctly, we understand how our faith should be focused.

Christ died and rose from the dead, shedding the Holy Spirit of God into the world freely.
Therefore, of course, one would have to really believe that Christ actually died and rose from the dead,
in order to sincerely interact with the Spirit His death and resurrection released.

And the Holy Spirit is invisible, and uses a still small voice, so interacting with Him,
understanding that He is really inside of you is also a constant thing of faith; believing.
Why is He with you? Because you were predestined? No. Because you... anything? No.
Because Christ died and rose from the dead.
And so what is He with you for? To Help you overcome yourself and the world.
To be full of the Spirit is to obey Christ and the apostles.

One going to Church on Sunday and singing and worshiping and yet having no sincere thought of
overcoming greed or selfishness or pride or envy or drunkenness or fornication or the like, is not worshiping in truth.

 

 

[Waggles]

9 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

We receive the Holy Spirit for free by grace.

"Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"
Galatians 3:2

well there you go - you have shot down your argument already.

Faith in what?? A true Pentecostal gospel as written in our NT or another gospel??

Acts 8:12  But when they believed Philip preaching good tidings concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. 
13  And Simon himself also believed: and being baptized, he continued with Philip; and beholding signs done and great miracles, he was amazed. 
14  Now when the apostles, those at Jerusalem, heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 
15  who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they receive the Holy Spirit: 
16  for as yet He was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 

Acts 19:1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper regions came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples: 
2  and he said unto them, Whether ye received the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether there is a Holy Spirit.

The NT does not teach any concept of an automatic receiving of the Holy Spirit upon "believing" or simply calling on the name of Jesus. In fact Jesus himself expressly teaches that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is for those who seek for this and pray for such:

Luke 11:13  If ye therefore, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall the Father who is from heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Acts 8:16  for as yet He was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 
17  Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. [which begs the question as to how did the apostles know that the Samaritans had received the indwelling Holy Spirit?]

Acts 19:6  And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

[Mr. M]

On 12/24/2022 at 9:08 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

What is "the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ"?

Whatever it is, is something to be obeyed, according to Paul.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them

in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Romans 16:

25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching

of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began,

26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations,

according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith— 

27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life;

and these are they which testify of Me. 

Revelation 19:

9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage

supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! 

I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus.

Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

It is futile to attempt to cherry pick the scriptures in a vain attempt

to offer the Gospel of Jesus Christ in a nutshell. I once had someone insist

that the entire Gospel could by explained with this statement:

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel

after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; 

and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

OH-K, yeah. That's apart of it. On the other hand, if the key point of the OP was to be

raised, it would be the second sentence, something to be obeyed. The Lord, the apostles

and the prophets, and even the Law of Moses give us enough to consider to realize there

is no shortcut to presenting the Gospel, as in Luke 24:27. The brief evangel for salvation,

as opposed to the full testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, will always be the gold

standard of the "most beloved verse".  God So Loved The World.

Hebrews 5:

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, 

He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

[Mr. M]

Just now, Mr. M said:

Romans 16:

25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching

of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began,

26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations,

according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith— 

27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.

When you consider how Paul closed the epistle to Rome, and how he began:

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God

to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 

17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith;

as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Clearly, this first epistle in the apostolic canon is a wonderful place to teach 

and learn the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as all is relevant, especially his teaching

from the Old Testament. The only exception might be the "greet everyone"

portions, although in some places we find valuable instruction there as well,

as examples of speaking words of exhortation, instruction, correction.

There is no Readers Digest condensed version of the Gospel! (did I just age myself?)

[Mr. M]

Furthermore, there is the critical expression "gospel of the kingdom".

Matthew 9:35 Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues,

preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. 

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness

to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Since this is the Gospel the apostles were commissioned to preach, there is much to gain

in a thorough study of this Word.

"Kingdom of heaven" used 40X

"Kingdom of God" used 90X

[Mr. M]

On 12/24/2022 at 9:08 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ"

2nd Thessalonians 1:7-8

Seeing that your reference text deals specifically with judgment, this would link directly:

Romans 2:

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these,

although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 

15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,

and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 

16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, 

according to my gospel.

[Mr. M]

7 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

It would be another way of saying that they are not saved. 

Wouldn't this imply that someone would have to know the Gospel in order to not obey,

and by not obeying would "not know not God"? 

Imagine someone accepting the Gospel of Salvation, at least as it is presented so often

today "accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, and when you die you go straight to heaven";

and then make absolutely no effort to obey His commands. What then?

Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them,

‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Are we really expected to live in holiness and righteousness?

Luke 1:

70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 1/1/2023 at 2:33 PM, Waggles said:

If ye therefore, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall the Father who is from heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Therefore the Holy Spirit is available... just for the asking.

Together with Galatians 3:2 and Ephesians 1:12-13, 2:8-10

we can be sure that the Holy Spirit is available for free by grace just for the asking.

Those in Acts had not been filled with the Spirit, the ministry was just starting,
and notice the questions asked in Acts 19; 
"Whether ye received the Holy Spirit when ye believed?" Acts 19:2

"We have not heard whether there be a Holy Ghost"

"Unto what then where ye baptized?" Acts 19:3

"they said unto John's baptism"

Acts 19:2-3 therefore lends to the idea that it was
expected that they would/could/should have received the Spirit upon belief.

And in Acts, belief and baptism go hand in hand; Acts 16:31-33, 19:1-5.

It is in the later epistles, namely Galatians and Ephesians, that we get greater explanation from Paul;
Galatians 3:2, Ephesians 1:12-13, 2:8-10 [note the translation of 2:8-9 from before]

A sincere prayer includes phrases like "please come into my heart Lord Jesus and save me"

And the Lord is the Spirit [2 Corinthians 3:17]

And so yes, upon such a sincere prayer one receives the Spirit,
because as the Lord Himself said, the Spirit is available just for the asking.
 

Many align having the Spirit, directly with going to heaven,

that if one has the Spirit then one would go to heaven just for having it,

one really should end up in heaven if they sincerely have the Spirit,

but the Spirit is not a ticket or a branding that automatically gets you into heaven.

The Spirit is God dwelling inside of a person, helping that person to repent,

and therefore one with the Spirit Must repent or face worse punishment than one without the Spirit.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Desopixi Seilynam