Chosen to Salvation

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

God did not choose anyone to hell before they were born. He wants deeply for everyone to be saved. Of course not all will. 

Election (and predestination) are always positive, in the Bible; however, if God wants everyone to be saved, why did Jesus speak to many in parables, so that they would not understand?

Matt. 13:10,11 (KJV)

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
  11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 

God gives to some hell-deserving sinners the grace to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to other hell-deserving sinners, he does not.  Salvation is all of grace (unmerited favour), so this is not because some people are better than others, except that God makes them so.

[Michael37]

3 minutes ago, David1701 said:

hell-deserving sinners

You mean these ones . . .

Gal 3:22
(22)  But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Eph 2:1-3
(1)  And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
(2)  in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
(3)  among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Rom 3:9-11
(9)  What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously warned both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin.
(10)  As it is written, “There is no one righteous; no, not one.
(11)  There is no one who understands. There is no one who seeks after God.

[David1701]

5 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

You mean these ones . . .

Gal 3:22
(22)  But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Eph 2:1-3
(1)  And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
(2)  in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
(3)  among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Rom 3:9-11
(9)  What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously warned both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin.
(10)  As it is written, “There is no one righteous; no, not one.
(11)  There is no one who understands. There is no one who seeks after God.

Yes, exactly.  We were all hell-deserving sinners. 

We who have been given repentance and faith in Jesus Christ did not merit it by being better than others (because we were not better at all); rather, it was simply God's choice to open our sinful hearts to the gospel, while leaving others in their unbelief and sin.

[Michael37]

11 minutes ago, David1701 said:

while leaving others in their unbelief and sin.

Because . . . ?

[David1701]

35 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Because . . . ?

Rom. 9:21-24 (KJV)

 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
  22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
  23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
  24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

God did not choose anyone to hell before they were born. He wants deeply for everyone to be saved. Of course not all will. 

I notice this sentiment is widespread, used to argue against the testimony of scripture which, as @David1701 points out, are positive affirmations that the Lord does indeed choose to adopt us as sons and daughters. You know that there are many passages (not "proof texts") which explicitly communicate that whomever the Lord predestines, He calls; whom He calls, He justifies; whom He justifies, He also glorifies. That's a brief summation of the apostle's teaching from the book of Romans.

I do not understand why some who express belief in the testimony of the scriptures choose to argue against portions they do not comprehend. The Lord, who is merciful, just, and perfect in every way, shall resurrect the dead and judge them according to their works. Those whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.

The resurrection and judgment of the dead dispel the straw man disputation that God created some for salvation, and others for condemnation. That assertion is arguing with an empty chair, my friend. Granted, some do believe such a thing and if you were disputing matters with those who do, then that's a reasonable argument.

The judgment of the dead according to their works is the definitive refutation of that dead end. If they were preordained for the fire, why judge them?

[Michael37]

41 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Rom. 9:21-24 (KJV)

 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
  22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
  23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
  24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

All are at one time vessels of wrath.

I know WHY some fail of God's Grace, and it's not because God is too mean to reveal it to them.

Titus 2:11-14

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, David1701 said:

Election (and predestination) are always positive, in the Bible; however, if God wants everyone to be saved, why did Jesus speak to many in parables, so that they would not understand?

Matt. 13:10,11 (KJV)

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
  11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 

God gives to some hell-deserving sinners the grace to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to other hell-deserving sinners, he does not.  Salvation is all of grace (unmerited favour), so this is not because some people are better than others, except that God makes them so.

In the days after the Gospel was preached and was preached to the Jews and to Galileans and to everyone who was following the law of Moses...

At that time the Nation of Israel was divided between those who had believed in Jesus Christ and those who continue to observed the Law of Moses.

Both groups claimed that they had the right to be called the people of God and by that they were judging or condemning the other group that was not...or that was lost.

And this is how the disciples began to call those who have believed in Jesus Christ as to distinguish them from those who were still following the Law of Moses and partake in the Atonement done in the Temple the disciples call the believers in Jesus Christ the elect people of God...in that they had been justified and sanctified by the blood of the Slain Lamb of God which is Jesus Christ..in this the Jewish believers learn not to participate in the Atonements done with the blood of the sacrificial animals in the Temple and not to seek to sanctify themselves by the rituals in the Law of Moses....

They taught them that they were the elect because it was the will of God to have children forever more justified and sanctified by the blood of Jesus Christ...

That the Law of Moses was given to the people till the time when the Lamb of God which is Jesus Christ will died or offered up himself to died on the Cross and shed the blood for the Atonement of the sins of the whole world...

Because when those whom they called Gentiles they also became the elect when they believed..

Whether Jew believers or Gentile believers both are the elect people of God, because both are justified and sanctified by the blood of Jesus Christ...

This statement it meant to set the believers in Jesus Christ apart from the other Jews and Galileans who were still in the worship according to the Sinai Covenant.  

Edited January 17, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

@Rosie1jack2pauline3

Good morning Rosie, it's Good morning to you in UK but past my bed time for me 2 hours past midnight..

I have copy and paste from your above post the following scriptures from Romans which is quoting Malachi...

I have a word of caution and this is the best word I have at the moment or till I find a better word perhaps more softer than this one... by now you must have guess that I have something to say to you and I am preparing you for what I am about to say, what I am alluring to is to consider what I will put into the table...And finally the moment has come and from the context of Malachi we must understand that it is not right and it does not do justice to Jesus Christ to assume that it was him who have said those words in Malachi because Jesus was not the one who have said those words and if you study how Jesus Christ is talking about anyone in the world no matter who they are...you will come to understand that those words in Malachi they are not part of who he is...

The Jesus Christ who gave his life so no one to be perished but to be invited to believe in him for the forgiveness of his sins. 

 Romans 9:11: Jacob and Esau “were not yet born and had done nothing good or bad — in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works, but because of him who calls — she was told” — this is before they were born or had done anything good or evil — “‘the older will serve the younger.’ As it is written, ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’”

That is a quote from Malachi 1:2–3, which ought to be read in context where the text makes clear that God is sovereignly before they were born choosing Jacob over Esau, but showing that Esau’s wickedness was real and blameworthy and he was responsible for it.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

7 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

Good morning YCF,Be invited to believe in him, so he invites?

I have no understanding of any of that, as I wasn’t invited, I get extremely frustrated at times, because, I don’t understand this invitation or choosing, it just doesn’t speak to my heart,..I can only go by God’s word when he testified with my spirit that I’m his child, it was a living birth, ..

I can only be led by God Through his word, that speaks to my spirit, same as forgiveness,I know in my spirit,God’s word, that my sins are forgiven,past,present,future..that is the word of God.

I think the understanding has to do with semantics?...

I know when God is speaking to me through the Spirit, I also know when man is....man forces his belief onto you, he tries to make you believe what he says is true.....God doesn’t force...so straight away, I know it’s the man in the flesh, when they keep forcing you to believe them...I understand where they are coming from, because i have done  it myself...God showed me it’s of the flesh...

@Rosie1jack2pauline3

Dear Rosie, there is a lot in your post and it is ok to bring all those things up and the time must be put aside to take a careful look in the issues that are up in your post...

I am not sure what is your response about when I used the word "to be invited to believe " and if this has to do with some groups of people where they need to be invited to believe because they have heard the Gospel but in themselves for their own reasons they may think that they are not worthy...and the speaker let's them know by inviting to believe that they are worthy and that Jesus Christ will accept their faith in him and forgive their sins or for the better word to put their sins under his blood...to impute to them his righteousness.. because they have believe in him...this is what is called to believe that they are justified in the eyes of God because they have believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.