The Letter to the Church in Philadelphia - AWESOME!

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

I think that the Tree of Life is a Metaphor. If we study all the Trees, we find a consistent picture. A Tree in Parable is a king and his kingdom (Judges 9, Daniel 4, Ezekiel 31). The Tree of Life is Jesus. Our Lord Jesus can only be taken in by the mouth. Adam was commanded to eat. Israel eat the Lamb. The priests eat the Offerings. Jesus presents Himself as the water of life, Living water, true Manna, the bread of Life and breathable air. To be saved one must call upon His Name.

The Grand type of Jesus is the Good Land ... of milk and honey. Jesus is the Olive Root, and He is the True Vine. His Kingdom is a mustard bush.

In the Churches today, we are taught that a man must go through a series of experiences. Rebirth, Baptism, Gifts of the Spirit, giving, forgiving and believing. Finally, death comes and we go to heaven (to do nothing) - each a single event. But it is not so. The walk of a Christian is an ongoing dynamic organic union with Jesus. Romans Chapter 1 says that the things of nature show the things of God. Nature is never stagnant. It is seasons, hot and cold, drought and flood, plenty and little, joy and sadness. THUS, THE CHRISTIAN WALK IS A CONSTANT EATING - A CONSTANT TAKING IN OF LIFE OR DEATH. Take Psalm 16;

8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in sheol.; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore

Here is a summary of christian life. Remember, God first act was to put man in Eden which means "Pleasure". But man is cast out and sin, toil, trial, and tribulation come in. Verse 8 needs a rock, an anchor. Such is life

Verse 9 hopes in the resurrection.

Verse 10 applies to Jesus, but in our case the corruption is overcome by "incorruption" at resurrection

Verse 11 show our existence after resurrection. What causes the "Pleasures Forever more"? THE PATHS OF LIFE! The pleasures of LIFE with Jesus as the source. 12 fruits every month - what for? PLEASURE Paul loses ALL things and counts them dung for "the EXCELLENCY of the knowledge of Jesus". And in what way does He "KNOW" Jesus. By the fellowship of His sufferings - FELLOWSHIP ON A CONTINUAL CONSTANT INTIMATE COMPANIONSHIP.

If the path of suffering is "EXCELLENT", what then the "JOY" of the Lord? If the dusty road of persecution and rejection is excellent, what then the "Paradise of God"? Tonight we eat prime Angus filet. Next week we eat it again. Do we like it less? This month and next month the well-to-do Russian will eat Beluga Caviar and ice-cold Vodka - and never grow tired of it.

But what of those who never embraced Christ? What is their portion? The Book of LIFE decides. Those written in the Book of Life have access to the Tree, but if you never embraced Jesus you may only make use of the LEAVES. The Leaves of a tree are its covering. A Covering, or garment is one's works (Rev.19:7.8). The Nations need HEALING. Why? Because they do not have eternal life. They cannot die, not because they intrinsically possess LIFE, but because God has decreed it (Heb.9:27). They do not possess what we received at the moment of faith - LIFE. So, by the works of Christ they are kept alive.

And those not in the book of LIFE? For them it is, "The Second DEATH"! What is that. Vine defines "perdition" as a serious lack of well-being". Isaiah and Mark say "THEIR worm will not die and THEIR fire will not be quenched". And Matthew 10:28 says that God Himself torments the SOUL and the BODY. Isaiah 66:24 say that the men and women who end in the Lake of Fire are those who went against God actively. The Second Death is not passive separation from God. It is God actively dispensing RETRIBUTION.

So, on the one side of the scale is "pleasures for ever more" by a continued eating of Christ's LIFE and at the other end is "perdition". And Isaiah 66 assures us that we will see such men who went against God and men. We Christians have a wonderful future - eating.

Genesis 3:24 (KJV) So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

As I implied, the Tree of Life could be a metaphor and symbolic in some respects. Yes, I agree, trees often represent kingdoms.

In the above verse, if this Tree is not literal, what are the Cherubims and flaming sword keeping the way of, eternal life?

The Lord provided the first sacrifice and covering for Adam & Eve.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Genesis 3:24 (KJV) So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

As I implied, the Tree of Life could be a metaphor and symbolic in some respects. Yes, I agree, trees often represent kingdoms.

In the above verse, if this Tree is not literal, what are the Cherubims and flaming sword keeping the way of, eternal life?

The Lord provided the first sacrifice and covering for Adam & Eve.

Hi Dennis,

I agree with you that it is a symbol of the Lord in some aspect.

The word `Life,` is the key, for only through Christ is there `life.` 

`For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. ` (John 5: 26)

`I am the way, the truth and the Life.` (John 14: 6)

Thus, when Adam and eve were barred from the garden as it were, in reality they were separated from God through Christ. 

 

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

May I return to New Jerusalem. I will be brief. There is one undeniable proof that New Jerusalem is on New Earth. That is, the Nations may go in and out (Rev.21:24-26). If New Jerusalem is in any part of heaven, then it follows that the Nations went to heaven.

 

`But now they desire a better, that is a HEAVENLY COUNTRY. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a CITY for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

Clearly from God`s word the city is a HEAVENLY COUNTRY.

`the kings of the earth bring their glory into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)

It is ONLY the kings, the rulers that go up into the heavenly city. So we ask how do they ascend? Well, even today we know that man has been able to go to the moon. However, in the NHNE time it will be God`s vehicle that takes the kings to the heavenly city.

God enabled Elijah to be carried away in a heavenly vehicle.

`Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. Now Elisha saw it, and he cried out, “My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and its horsemen.” (2 Kings 2: 11 & 12)

Chariot - Heb. ` rekeb,` meaning a vehicle.

Horses - Heb. `cuwc, ` meaning to skip, flight.

Of fire - Heb. `esh,` fire, fiery. (lit. or fig. - holy)

 

So, I believe that God has His heavenly vehicles that will transport the kings to the heavenly city as needed.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

 

God has angels for heaven, but Jesus is a MAN and was made for the EARTH. His body is made of the elements of the earth, his diet is of the earth, He is subject to the Laws of earth for He was "taken up" for His heavenly sojourn. 

 

Yes Jesus is the Son of Man but also the Son of God. He is human and deity. His body is now glorified, of heaven.

`The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are heavenly.

And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man.` (1 Cor. 15: 47 - 49)

The glorified and exalted Lord is not as He was manifest on earth. He can go through dimensions (visible and invisible) and through the different areas of God`s great kingdom - third heaven, Universe and atmospheric heavens. We will be made like unto the Lord with the same miraculous heavenly body.

`For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren.`  (Rom. 8: 29)

 

The glorious vision we see of the ascended Lord in Rev. 1: 12 - 18, dealing with His Body, is so spectacular that when John saw the Lord He fell at His feet as dead. (Rev. 1: 17)

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, AdHoc said:

@Vine Abider @Marilyn C @Dennis1209 @coheir

May I return to New Jerusalem. I will be brief. There is one undeniable proof that New Jerusalem is on New Earth. That is, the Nations may go in and out (Rev.21:24-26). If New Jerusalem is in any part of heaven, then it follows that the Nations went to heaven.

The New Jerusalem has caused much discussion among Bible scholars. Many well schooled and well trained scholars have attempted to make it a literal City. This works some of the way, but soon the exegesis sinks into absurdity. Revelation 1:1 warns us that what the Lord is about to show is shown in "signs". And if this approach is taken, and one is strict about interpreting scripture with scripture, New Jerusalem, with so few words, shows us a detailed consummation of God's plan and heart's desire.

The City is a Woman is a Tabernacle from heaven but comes down to earth. Its number is 144,000 indicating a composite of two peoples of God, 12 Apostles and 12 Tribes. Besides the above signs, it is foursquare - the shape of the Holy of Holies. It is made with men who have the measure of an angel - resurrection (Lk.20:36). Its materials are found in Eden, Gold,  Pearl (the animal version of Bdelllium) and Precious Stones. It has the River of Life and the Tree of Life. All unholy things are kept out by the great and high walls - the Church and the Gates  (Israel) serve God in that they allow only undefiled things in for audience. The Nations are outside, but seeking to visit. Those in the Lake of Fire may not enter, while the rest, not possessing eternal life, must be sustained by the LEAVES of the Tree of Life.

It has God's image and likeness, His light and life, and His GLORY.It is the Bride of Christ. Everything that God planned to do is PICTURED in this City. God's dsire was not to make more creatures in heaven, but "to fill and replenish the earth". God has angels for heaven, but Jesus is a MAN and was made for the EARTH. His body is made of the elements of the earth, his diet is of the earth, He is subject to the Laws of earth for He was "taken up" for His heavenly sojourn. God has heaven as His "throne", but His Kingdom will "fill the EARTH". His promise to Abraham fro for a piece of the earth with borders, "for an everlasting possession".

It is true that heaven will rule, as Marylin C says. The throne is heaven (not in heaven), the calling is heavenly (Heb.3:1), the birth is "from above" (lit. Gk.), the Church is modeled to a "pattern in heaven", the bread is from above and the King comes from heaven. Heaven must, and will, rule, but God is Emmanuel - "God WITH us". A King who does not live in His domain is a king in EXILE. Jehovah sought a HOUSE for Himself ON EARTH. In Daniel God's earthly House was gone, and He is tragically called "the God of heaven ONLY", instead of the "god of heaven AND earth". In the Book of Esther we are impressed with His care for a sinning nation, but these Jews did not care for God's Land , God's House, God's Testimony, God's Name, God's Fame and God's heart's desire. And so, again, tragically, God is never mentioned in the book of Esther.

Let us be a people of salt and light - for the earth. Let us be a people who build God's House - the Church, Christ's Body "whose MEMBER OUR BODIES ARE" - Yes, those "EARTHEN VESSELS" which have treasure in them.

"Thy Kingdom COME (to earth), Thy will be done ON EARTH, as it is in heaven"!

@Dennis1209 @Vine Abider,

May I suggest you really check scripture against what Ad hoc is writing. The final truth that is being `battled` for before the Lord comes is where our inheritance is - in heaven or on earth. 

[Vine Abider]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

@Dennis1209 @Vine Abider,

May I suggest you really check scripture against what Ad hoc is writing. The final truth that is being `battled` for before the Lord comes is where our inheritance is - in heaven or on earth. 

Hi Marilyn - the discussion of the location of the NJ is an interesting one, and I see both what you and @AdHoc are referring to in scripture.  The city will be wonderful beyond words, and is (and will likely remain) a mystery that is the culmination of God's purpose - Him dwelling closely with man for eternity.  In fact, just this morning at a fellowship breakfast we briefly discussed how mysterious it is to us now!

And this discussion about the city is somewhat on topic in this thread, in that the NJ is mentioned in the letter to Philadelphia . . .

However, may I suggest a new thread be started to delve into the matter of the city's exact location?  Thanks!

 

[Vine Abider]

After the weekly men's fellowship breakfast here this morning, I had a nice conversation with a leading brother and the bottom-line of that conversation related to the letter to Philly, regarding "you have a little strength."  He and I were talking about an international church group we'd both been with, which had gotten so strong -- they developed a strong central ministry and sought to bring the various local churches into line with that central ministry and other central authority measures.  We then talked about different brothers down through history, who the Lord had used in good ways. However, so many of these brothers had specific weaknesses (think Luthor, Calvin et. al.) that also became apparent.

The point of the conversation was this - all men are really weak, because we all have the flesh (and of course the Lord knows this).  The flesh causes all sorts of problems for all Christians.  It also seeks power and wants to control things and other people.  It will set up systems and methods with a purpose to keep things under control and then grow an empire.  However, man's strength and control - no matter how good the action might seem - is antithesis to Christ.

Why?  In my experience when someone (including me) in the church says , "I've got this" and tries to exercise control, the Holy Spirit says in essence, "Okay, I'll let you have it.  I'll just go hang out over there until you realize you need Me."  The Lord knows we are nothing in ourselves, and just waits until we realize how needy we actually are.  His strength and abilities are made perfect in us . . . but through our weaknesses!

So to me, I've learned it's better to be with those who aren't so strong, because it's these ones that Christ can shine through.  The church that thought it was strong and needed nothing is Laodicea, but the Lord tells them they are actually quite pitiful.  He is standing outside and knocking, asking permission to come back in. On the other hand, Philadelphia had but a little strength and were focused on the few things the Lord desires of us.  The Lord can work with people like that, because they know their weakness/need and are desperately turning to Him to receive His supplying grace.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Vine Abider
typo & clarity

[AdHoc]

16 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

@Dennis1209 @Vine Abider,

May I suggest you really check scripture against what Ad hoc is writing. The final truth that is being `battled` for before the Lord comes is where our inheritance is - in heaven or on earth. 

My apologies for not answering. It was a day of other duties. You are absolutely correct to demand a thorough check against scripture. To this I will answer when the chance comes. In the meantime, I would like to honor our brother who calls for us to keep the thread on track. Thank you for your understanding and God bless.

[Vine Abider]

An ancillary aside here - these 7 letters to the churches are so, so very rich with the Lord's speaking . . . have they been covered on here before, and if so, recently?  If not, we might think about starting threads about the others, beginning with Ephesus.