Give up Salvation?

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Of course the LOF IS the second death.  For the resurrected but still mortal bodies of the unbelievers.  You bet they are the same.

Body and soul.  

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

To expound on your narrative, I agree that the Bible does not teach annihilation. It appears the Lord wanted two families, a spiritual and flesh and blood family, and He created both to be one family and live eternally.

Could you explain a bit on this?  I don't follow the "two families".

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

…and man became a living soul. An imperishable soul, not said about the animal kingdom having the “breath of life.”. In His image and likeness.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

As sons and daughters of Adam, physical and spiritual death passed down. As we know, spiritual death is eternal condemnation. Adam was created not to see death; therefore, Adam was created to live eternally. If the Lord took that back, it was not eternal to begin with. The only conditional clause was the separation of body from soul and death for disobeying the only restriction.

Correct.

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

With that consideration in mind and what you mentioned:  

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

All those standing before this judgment (GWT) are condemned already. Is this judgment to determine who gets annihilated and who does not, of course not. This judgment is the penalty to be assessed and imposed for the “works” done in the flesh, an eternal sentence.

Correct.

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

A person who tried to live a moral life doing many good deeds on his or her own apart from God, rejecting saving faith, will not be judged as harshly as, say, Hitler. I believe there are different levels of Hell and the Lake of Fire. And as you rightly point out, forever, and ever, and ever.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Life more abundantly than what alternative?

John 10:10 is a comparison between just having eternal life, and having rewards with eternal life.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Explanations of conclusions are not 'clear evidence'.  IT IS WRITTEN is.

[double click failed.  I gave you what IS WRITTEN.  What's not very clear in Rev 20:10?]

Eternal sin is not equivalent to Eternal torment. 
Recompense is not equivalent to eternal torment
Death is not equivalent to eternal torment

[This has nothing to do with your theory of annihilation.  And is irreleant.]  

IT IS WRITTEN there are 2 deaths. 
The first one is body only. 
Second one, both body and soul.

[And what verse says so plainly?  Are you not aware that all unbelievers will be resurrected?]  

First one we cease to breathe and exist in this realm
Second we cease to BE in the next.

[That is an opinion.]

Anything that CHANGES THAT IS A LIE.

[You haven't proven your claim.  I have proven through what IS WRITTEN that 2 human beings will be in the LOF for 1,000 years and then be joined by the devil and "they" (all of them) will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

How can a  person be tormented for ever and ever if they don't exist any more?  Can you explain that?] 

Here is the warning

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
[No one argues that God unable to cause the soul to cease to exist.  But this statement is only that;  what God is able to do.  Now, please find any verse that shows that He WILL WILL WILL cause the souls of unbelievers to cease to exist.]

Here is the execution of that warning.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So, we see Matt 10:28 isn't just a WARNING it is indeed a FACT as it speaks to  things it is written will be taking place.  

I already explained why the LOF is also called the second death.  It seems you don't agree that unbelievers will be resurrected.

So, let's see what IS WRITTEN about that, ok?

Dan 12:2 -  Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:29 -  and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Acts 24:15 -  and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Your argument isn't with me, but rather, with what IS WRITTEN.

The "second death" refers to the death of the resurrected but still mortal bodies of unbelievers when they are cast into the LOF.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Yet NONE of that negates the fact that they are of the FORMER THINGS THAT pass away.  

YOU have to get AROUND that fact.

[double click failed.  There is nothing to get around.  The "former things" don't refer to the LOF, as you presume.  It's that simple.  But since you disagree, please prove that it does.  What should be obvious is that "former things" refers to life on earth BEFORE the MK, when all believers have glorified bodies, just like that of the Lord Jesus.]

  No matter what your understanding is of forever and ever and day and night,

[My understanding of "day and night for ever and ever" means eternity.  No matter what YOUR understanding is.  iow, I read it literally, as all of Rev 20 should be read.]

IT IS ALL GONE as it is of the past and the past passes away and THERE WILL BE NO DEATH.

[Right.  When the unbeliever is cast into the LOF and their body experiences the second death, there will be no more death.]

And you are the one that KEEPS SAYING THAT DEATH IS ETERNALLY IN THE LAKE OF FIRE PROVING it has to pass away

[Nope.  I've never argued that.  Torment will be eternal, as Rev 20:10 very plainly says.  iow, what IS WRITTEN.]

Like the fat of the lamb that goes up in smoke that is what happens to the wicked.  You can't torment SMOKE just as you can't torment something that has vanished.  Just like you can't torment something that no longer exists.  

It's so simple that only 'the wise' can't seem to understand the whole concept.  

You are confused about the fat going up in smoke.  No one has said, much lesss the Bible, that smoke will be tormented.  

At least you do make my point that torment is eternal.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Laughing out loud at ME?  Seriously? 

As you make claim that 'a seven headed man is a man'?   

At least we know what you are waiting for.  

Please don't be so sensitive.  I was laughing at the IDEA that the beast and FP aren't humans.  Many people have that view.  It's the VIEW I laugh at.

And you have no idea what I am waiting for.  It would be advised not to say things that is obvious that you don't have the information for.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Body and soul.  

OK, prove from Scripture that both body and soul will cease to exist in the LOF.

But, maybe you should FIRST consider that Jesus referenced final judgment and made clear that it will be "more bearable/tolerable" for some than others.

So how does that fit into your theory that all unbelievers will simply cease to exist after being cast into the LOF?

And please prove from Scripture that only 2 humans will be tormented eternally, while no other human will be.  Where is that taught?

[TheBlade]

Hey sis you ya doing. "His reply was this: "I wish all could be Saved - I'd give up my own Salvation if it would Save everyone."

This here reminded me when I once said some thing like this to God "why don't you just save everyone no matter what". Never expected God to say anything but He came right back with "DON'T you ever say that again". Now He was not mad but that word DON'T .. praise God yes sir. 

So today I like the song am believing for 8 billion to be saved..  their choice yet.. believing

Edited January 18, 2023 by TheBlade

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

OK, prove from Scripture that both body and soul will cease to exist in the LOF.

But, maybe you should FIRST consider that Jesus referenced final judgment and made clear that it will be "more bearable/tolerable" for some than others.

So how does that fit into your theory that all unbelievers will simply cease to exist after being cast into the LOF?

And please prove from Scripture that only 2 humans will be tormented eternally, while no other human will be.  Where is that taught?

If the body and souls aren't 'being consumed' in the LOF,

THEN WHERE DOES THE SMOKE COME FROM?






Torment takes place in HELL.  GOD isn't shy in telling us of it. 

2nd death takes place after being raised up from hell death and the sea.  

As you insist on TORMENT taking place for all eternity, WHICH of these verses that speak of torment, tormentors, or the tormented. 

are you saying as speaking of the Lake of Fire?  

OR will we NEXT BE HEARING
HE DIDN'T USE THE WORD in when speaking of the second death,
even though
THAT IS WHAT HE REALLY MEANT?
 

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." Luke 16:23 KJV

We see here, The words of GOD have NO PROBLEM speaking in all transparency, about torment taking place in hell.  
 

"And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them." Matthew 4:24 KJV

"And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" Matthew 8:29 KJV

The time being when they will be sent to hell. 

"And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not." Mark 5:7 KJV

"When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not." Luke 8:28 KJV

"For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment." Luke 16:28 KJV

AGAIN, no shyness in speaking to a place TORMENT does take place

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18 KJV

"And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man." Revelation 9:5 KJV

Here a TIME OF TORMENT 'on' the earth is ONCE AGAIN, CLEARLY WRITTEN, clearly understood.

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." Revelation 14:11 KJV

Here we see THE SMOKE OF THEIR TORMENT.  Smoke being produced by WHAT IS consumed by fire

Set a brick in a fire and NO SMOKE as the brick is not consumed.  

Set a dry branch and as IT GETS BURNT UP, smoke all over the place.  That smoke goes up forever.  
Since this does not say eternal torment, it can only come about by A CONCLUSION made upon what is written the CONCLUSION being 'their torment' never ends. 

 WE NOW HAVE A SINGLE VERSE, NOT A DOCTRINE, that speaks to 'the smoke of torment rising up forever'.  No more, no less

"How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." Revelation 18:7 KJV

A set amount

"Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come." Revelation 18:10 KJV
in one hour is thy judgement come.....nothing about it going on forever and ever

"The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing," Revelation 18:15 KJV

"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him." Matthew 18:34 KJV

UNTIL he should pay...not for ever and ever

There may be more, that's all I found for now,

Now, IN CONTRAST to all those verses that don't say anything about the lake of fire tormenting souls forever and

to see what CONCEPT by the SPIRIT OF TRUTH seem more 'true to truth', I went and found some other verses that I BELIEVE speak more to the truth of the matter.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16 KJV

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 KJV

Is GOD NOT ONLY ABLE BUT is it written THERE WILL BE SOULS CAST IN TO BE DESTROYED?  IN Rev 20 it is written

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

"There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?" James 4:12 KJV
 

"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." Hebrews 10:39 KJV
 

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" 2 Thessalonians 1:9 KJV
 

"But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition." 1 Timothy 6:9 KJV

"Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?" Proverbs 15:11 KJV

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Isaiah 1:28 KJV

"For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction." Isaiah 10:25 KJV

 

 So, no, I don't believe anyone ever will be resurrected from the Lake of Fire aka the 2nd death because it is the death of BOTH the body and the soul.  THAT DEATH, that one comes at the judgment of GOD, not man. 

 

"He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD." Proverbs 17:15 KJV

"Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God." Mark 1:24 KJV

"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." 1 Corinthians 3:17 KJV

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" Hebrews 2:14 KJV

 

The ONLY thing a MAN can kill is the natural body of another man.  He can't 'touch' the soul. That belongs to God but when God JUDGES you to death, that is forever. BOTH the soul and the body rendered DEAD in the lake of fire there is nothing to torment.  

UNLESS there is some 3rd body I don't know about.  

We have the unbelievers who go to hell who 'resurrect' when Christ returns.  

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD." Psalms 104:35 KJV

"Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths." Isaiah 59:7 KJV

We have the unbelievers who go to hell and resurrect at the end of the GWTJ to go into the Lake of Fire having basically come to destruction even before the first death by choosing death and the ways of the world. 

"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." Psalms 37:10 KJV
 

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20 KJV
 

"Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it." Psalms 37:34 KJV
 

"But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?" Psalms 50:16 KJV
 

"As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God." Psalms 68:2 KJV
 

"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:" Psalms 92:7 KJV
 

"Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies." Psalms 119:119 KJV
 

"The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalms 145:20 KJV
 

"For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out." Proverbs 24:20 KJV
 

"But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." Isaiah 11:4 KJV
 

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Ezekiel 18:20 KJV

"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die." Ezekiel 18:21 KJV

"Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive." Ezekiel 18:27 KJV
 

"Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;" Ezekiel 33:14 KJV


"Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace! O Judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off." Nahum 1:15 KJV
 

"They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons." Matthew 21:41 KJV
 

"And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever." Numbers 24:20 KJV
 

"For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted." Isaiah 60:12 KJV
 

 

"They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish." Isaiah 26:14 KJV

We are starting to get an IDEA of HOW GOD WORKS.  

"As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation." Proverbs 10:25 KJV
 

"The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish." Proverbs 10:28 KJV

"Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever." Psalms 9:5 KJV
 

"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4 KJV

"Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said in his heart, Thou wilt not require it." Psalms 10:13 KJV

"The wicked are overthrown, and are not: but the house of the righteous shall stand." Proverbs 12:7 KJV

"They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;" Hebrews 1:11 KJV

"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" 2 Peter 2:12 KJV

"Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Psalms 11:6 KJV
 

"Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate." Psalms 34:21 KJV

"Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand." Psalms 109:6 KJV

"The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish." Psalms 112:10 KJV

"Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh." Proverbs 3:25 KJV
 

"The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out." Proverbs 13:9 KJV
 

"The righteous man wisely considereth the house of the wicked: but God overthroweth the wicked for their wickedness." Proverbs 21:12 KJV
 

"The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalms 145:20 KJV
 

"Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:" Isaiah 30:8 KJV

"And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face." Deuteronomy 7:10 KJV

"Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee." Deuteronomy 9:3 KJV
 

"Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction." Jeremiah 17:18 KJV
 

"By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire." Ezekiel 28:16 KJV
 

"I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment." Ezekiel 34:16 KJV

"Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." Joel 1:15 KJV
 

 

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[FreeGrace]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

If the body and souls aren't 'being consumed' in the LOF,

THEN WHERE DOES THE SMOKE COME FROM?

[double click failed.  This is what I posted:  

"OK, prove from Scripture that both body and soul will cease to exist in the LOF.

But, maybe you should FIRST consider that Jesus referenced final judgment and made clear that it will be "more bearable/tolerable" for some than others."

How do you figure that your response is any kind of answer or proof for your views?  Are you aware of "figures of speech"?  If so, it shouldn't be difficult to realize that "smoke rising" is a figure of speech.  Even LOF is a figure of speech, although some scholars assume it refers to a very distant star, which is literally a lake of fire.  Whatever.  

You haven't shown any evidence from Scripture that souls will cease to exist.  The fact that God CAN cause them to cease to exist doesn't mean He will.  You need clear evidence before believing such a thing.

And I have given you clear evidence from Rev 20 that 2 human beings will be IN the LOF for 1,000 years before being joined by the devil.  v.19 ends with this:  "They shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

There is no way to even try to argue that getting cast into the LOF causes one to cease to exist.

And again, the "second death" refers to the resurrected physical body, not the soul.]

Torment takes place in HELL.  GOD isn't shy in telling us of it. 

2nd death takes place after being raised up from hell death and the sea.

[You are confusing various verses and trying to conflate them.  There is a compartment (or place) in Hades where the souls of all unbelievers go, awaiting the final judgment, which is the GWT.  Rev 20:11-15 records this.

There is torment in the place where unbelievers are, as Jesus clearly noted in the account of Lazarus and a rich man.  However, Rev 20:10 plainly says that "they", meaning 2 humans and the devil, will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.]

As you insist on TORMENT taking place for all eternity, WHICH of these verses that speak of torment, tormentors, or the tormented. 

are you saying as speaking of the Lake of Fire?

[I only insist on what the Bible SAYS.  I wonder why you aren't.]  

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." Luke 16:23 KJV

We see here, The words of GOD have NO PROBLEM speaking in all transparency, about torment taking place in hell.

[Right.  There is torment in Hades, which isn't the LOF.  Maybe you are confused about that as well.  Rev 20:10 speaks specifically about the LOF.]

"And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" Matthew 8:29 KJV

The time being when they will be sent to hell.

[No, those fallen angels know that they will be cast into the LOF, since Jesus made that clear in Matt 25:41 - “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."]

"And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not." Mark 5:7 KJV

"When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not." Luke 8:28 KJV

"For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment." Luke 16:28 KJV

[Ditto for all these verses.]

AGAIN, no shyness in speaking to a place TORMENT does take place

[No one argues otherwise.]

 WE NOW HAVE A SINGLE VERSE, NOT A DOCTRINE, that speaks to 'the smoke of torment rising up forever'.  No more, no less

[Figure of speech, obviously.  It's interesting how some people will reject the literalness of Rev 20 but latch onto obvious figures of speech in other passages and read them as literal.]

So, no, I don't believe anyone ever will be resurrected from the Lake of Fire aka the 2nd death because it is the death of BOTH the body and the soul.  THAT DEATH, that one comes at the judgment of GOD, not man.

[What in the world are you talking about?  I never said anything about anyone being "resurrected FROM the LOF".  Where do you get your confusion from?

I SAID all unbelievers will be resurrected in order to attend the GWT judgment, after which they will be cast into the LOF.  Please please please read Rev 20:11-15.]
 

The ONLY thing a MAN can kill is the natural body of another man.  He can't 'touch' the soul. That belongs to God but when God JUDGES you to death, that is forever. BOTH the soul and the body rendered DEAD in the lake of fire there is nothing to torment.

[No verse says that God WILL kill souls.  Yes, is CAN but no verse says that He will.  All you have is presumption.] 

We have the unbelievers who go to hell who 'resurrect' when Christ returns.

[No we don't.  Read Rev 20.  The FIRST resurrection, which is for the saved, occurs "when Christ returns" at the end of the Tribulation.  Then, after 1,000 years, which is the end of the MK, there will be another resurrection, this one for all unbelievers, and then they attend the GWT judgment.] 

We have the unbelievers who go to hell and resurrect at the end of the GWTJ to go into the Lake of Fire having basically come to destruction even before the first death by choosing death and the ways of the world.

[Please read Rev 20.  You have the timing all wrong. Unbelievers are resurrected at the end of the MK, and THEN attend the GWT judgment.] 

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Ezekiel 18:20 KJV

[Verses like this one use "soul" to refer to the PERSON, not just the immaterial part of man.  So it refers to physical death, not spiritual death.  All humans are born spiritually dead already, so they can't spiritually die again.]

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I have just one question for you.  You quote Rev 20:10.  So, why don't you believe it?

[kwikphilly]

21 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I was busy yesterday and completely missed this thread, so I'm late coming to the party! (will someone please fire up the music again!? )

As other's stated, I immediately thought of what Paul said - that he would be accursed is some of his kinsmen could receive salvation. That, of course, is the living Christ in Paul!  Christ did exactly that with His death, and also knew He would take up His life again.

This is what real love does - lays down it's own life and suffers death even for enemies (which we were).  Can I do this?  Certainly not - but Christ lives in me!

And that's all I got to say about that . . .  (someone can turn out the lights now if the party's over)

Wow- I was excited to see you join the party- someone who doesn't nit pic and just has an honest opinion about what comes to mind- instead of wanting to dispute mine- lol

I'll always turn on the lights for you to join👍