Will the Day of the Lord come as a thief, or will there be signs first?

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Thanks all, but I did not see a specific answer to Joel 2: the signs in the sun and moon before the Day of the Lord.

I know there are many people who believe that the Rapture and the start of the Day of the Lord are back to back events: one moment it is church age, the next moment the rapture, and the next moment, the Day of the Lord.

Once again, there is no "pre-trib rapture" found in scripture as you claim, please post scripture to support this claim "waiting"?

Edited January 29, 2023 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hi Marilyn, 

To my understanding the "days of the Lord" are many..."the day of the Lord" is for something about the Lord...he is doing something or he has done something or he will do something. 

In revelation 3 the day of the Lord had come to Judge the churches...

Jesus had let the churches to the overseers of each church.

And each church had something that Jesus try to bring them to their attention. 

This is the first time that Jesus got involved in the affairs of the churches since his ascension. 

He had left the churches develop on their own...

Jesus was walking amongst their Lampstands, there he was getting ready to Judge them...

This time he used John and he gave them his instructions and his warning through him.

Also he informed them that he is going to do the same thing with the individual believers...

Judgment on the church Leaders and Judgment to the individual believers...and the rewards to those who pay heed to what he asked for them...

Jesus said that Abraham knew his day and he rejoice.

After his ascension we recorded only one time that Jesus came to earth and that for a very specific purpose for Paul on the road to Damascus. Which was like private appearance.

The first appearance of the Lord coming back to earth it was when he came to John in the Island of Patmos. 

This is why the disciples were saying "the spirit asked me to go in the dessert for Philip and for Peter...the Lord had left the Holy Spirit to guide them.

And this is the first time someone and this is John who said to the churches that the Lord appeared to me and asked me to write those letters and sent them to be read to the churches...

Jesus did the warnings through John....in this spectacular way...

"The Day Of The Lord" is the last day of earth's existence (The End)

2 Peter 3:10KJV

1 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Once again, there is no "pre-trib rapture" found in scripture as you claim, please post scripture to support this claim "waiting"?

To find the pre-trib rapture, it is necessary to know where "the trib" is on a timeline. Most people don't. Many people think they do.

If by "trib" one means the 70th week of Daniel, then on John's Revelation timeline, the 70th week is marked by sevens: 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, and the 7th vial ends the week.

Since you won't believe this, it is my guess you will not find the pretrib rapture, though it is written plainly to come just before God's wrath begins. Millions have found it.

[truth7t7]

32 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

To find the pre-trib rapture, it is necessary to know where "the trib" is on a timeline. Most people don't. Many people think they do.

If by "trib" one means the 70th week of Daniel, then on John's Revelation timeline, the 70th week is marked by sevens: 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, and the 7th vial ends the week.

Since you won't believe this, it is my guess you will not find the pretrib rapture, though it is written plainly to come just before God's wrath begins. Millions have found it.

My request was for you to post scripture in support of your claim in a pre-trib rapture, waiting?

Edited January 29, 2023 by truth7t7

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Once again, there is no "pre-trib rapture" found in scripture as you claim, please post scripture to support this claim "waiting"?

Have you considered what the Lord promised to the church in Philadelphia in Rev 3;10: Because you have kept My word of perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of the testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who live on the earth.

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

To find the pre-trib rapture, it is necessary to know where "the trib" is on a timeline. Most people don't. Many people think they do.

If by "trib" one means the 70th week of Daniel, then on John's Revelation timeline, the 70th week is marked by sevens: 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, and the 7th vial ends the week.

Since you won't believe this, it is my guess you will not find the pretrib rapture, though it is written plainly to come just before God's wrath begins. Millions have found it.

I believe we actually have two tribulations.  The first tribulation happens when the false messiah appears on earth first. (Revelation 12:7-17)

In Mark 13:11-23, the first tribulation is also being discussed.  
But then in verse 24, we come to the second tribulation.  Notice that it says after that tribulation in verse 24.
 
Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
 
Mark 13:25  and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
 
This is the second tribulation which happens at the 7th trump at Christ's return.  This is God's tribulation—the wrath of God—Armageddon.
 
Mark 13:26  And then shall they see the son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
 
Mark 13:27  And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
 
There you have it—the two tribulations.

[Keras]

18 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Have you considered what the Lord promised to the church in Philadelphia in Rev 3;10: Because you have kept My word of perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of the testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who live on the earth.

Being kept from God's wrath, does not necessarily mean -removed from. Many Prophesies say how the Lord will protect His people thru it all. Isaiah 43:2, +

We who refute and speak against the 'rapture to heaven' doctrine, do so out of concern for our fellow Christians, who have been lied to and deceived by their teachers.

There is no definitive scripture that says God intends to take His people up to heaven in these end times. There are, in fact quite a few that say He won't:

John 3:13, John 17:15, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, 1 Cor 1:7-9, 1 Cor 10:13, 1 Peter 4:12-19, Jeremiah 25:29, Proverbs 10:30 Psalms 10:30, Psalms 37:29, Revelation 2:25-26

We are aware of the problem of many Christians, in that the 'rapture' is the only teaching for the Church, before Jesus Returns. One American I spoke to said: The rapture is all I have ever been taught. 

This is a very sad state of affairs, as this false theory has set up many to fall from their faith, when they expect to be raptured, doesn't happen. 

Here is a quote from Art Katz, a messianic Jew:     “Nothing has more disarmed the Church of the necessity for preparation, discipleship and maturity that can stand strong in faith, in these end times; than the mistaken idea of a rapture to heaven, so they won’t have to face the Lord’s wrath”.

What we are told to do when things get bad, is to 'Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved.' Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

 

Also, with the 'rapture' belief, you miss out on knowing the amazing promises of God, of how He will protect and bless His faithful people, as they live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land. 

There are many prophesies telling us about God's plans, do not make the mistake of attributing His Blessings to the Jews. They have lost the Kingdom, Matthew 21:43, and we Christians, Jew and Gentile, are the inheritors of God's promises. Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Galatians 3:26-29, as followers of Jesus, the One true Israel, thru whom all the promises of God will be fulfilled.  2 Corinthians 1:20 

 

[Keras]

4 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

There you have it—the two tribulations.

You are partly right, the tribulation referred to in Revelation 7:14, will be the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal. The sudden and devastating world changer that will commence all the Prophesied end times things. 

The actual Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, commences when the Satanically inspired world leader sits in the Temple and declares himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4  It will last for 1260 days and culminate with Armageddon and the glorious Return of Jesus. Revelation 19:11, Matthew 24:29-30

[Vine Abider]

13 minutes ago, Keras said:

Being kept from God's wrath, does not necessarily mean -removed from. Many Prophesies say how the Lord will protect His people thru it all. Isaiah 43:2, +

We who refute and speak against the 'rapture to heaven' doctrine, do so out of concern for our fellow Christians, who have been lied to and deceived by their teachers.

There is no definitive scripture that says God intends to take His people up to heaven in these end times. There are, in fact quite a few that say He won't:

John 3:13, John 17:15, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, 1 Cor 1:7-9, 1 Cor 10:13, 1 Peter 4:12-19, Jeremiah 25:29, Proverbs 10:30 Psalms 10:30, Psalms 37:29, Revelation 2:25-26

We are aware of the problem of many Christians, in that the 'rapture' is the only teaching for the Church, before Jesus Returns. One American I spoke to said: The rapture is all I have ever been taught. 

This is a very sad state of affairs, as this false theory has set up many to fall from their faith, when they expect to be raptured, doesn't happen. 

Here is a quote from Art Katz, a messianic Jew:     “Nothing has more disarmed the Church of the necessity for preparation, discipleship and maturity that can stand strong in faith, in these end times; than the mistaken idea of a rapture to heaven, so they won’t have to face the Lord’s wrath”.

What we are told to do when things get bad, is to 'Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved.' Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

 

Also, with the 'rapture' belief, you miss out on knowing the amazing promises of God, of how He will protect and bless His faithful people, as they live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land. 

There are many prophesies telling us about God's plans, do not make the mistake of attributing His Blessings to the Jews. They have lost the Kingdom, Matthew 21:43, and we Christians, Jew and Gentile, are the inheritors of God's promises. Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Galatians 3:26-29, as followers of Jesus, the One true Israel, thru whom all the promises of God will be fulfilled.  2 Corinthians 1:20 

 

This is why I see that there is more than one rapture, for those that meet certain conditions the Lord stipulates.

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

My request was for you to post scripture in support of your claim in a pre-trib rapture, waiting?

I know. My answer was clear also: you would not believe it if I did post a scripture.

Why? Because you don't know when the 70th week begins on John's timeline. You probably don't even believe John has a timeline. When you imagine the 7th trumpet, in Revelation 11, a midpoint chapter, sounds at the end of the week, that is a strong hint that you don't believe John has a timeline.

It is OK with me whatever you choose to believe.