Is the Soul itself Eternal?

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Only a soul who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior will inherit immortality/eternal life.

You're right, but that is not quite the issue here. If you go to 1st Corinthians 15, you will notice that in verse 22 it says that ALL men will be resurrected. God must do this to subdue death. As long as one man is still dead, death is not subdued. So when the condition of the resurrected is dealt with a difference is made in glory. So let's take an extreme case to illustrate - Hitler. Let me take the liberty to judge him (for there is only One Judge - Christ). He will be found guilty of going against God and be cast into the Lake of Fire. But will he first be resurrected? YES! And will he have a certain glory' Yes - "terrestrial". On what basis - will be the objection! The Basis of resurrection for ALL men, is Jesus Christ Who died for the SIN (singular) of the WORLD" (Jn.1:29).

"SIN" (singular) is the cause of death (Rom.5:12, 17, 6:23). "SINS" (plural) is the cause of the Second Death - the Lake of Fire. So Hitler will be raised based on Christ's Work, but go to the Lake of Fire based on HIS works. And though he be a sinner to the uttermost, his resurrection is because of Christ and thus his BODY will have a certain glory. Now, to your question. IS HE IMMORTAL. To answer this we must define IMMORTAL. "IMMORTAL" means one CANNOT die. A man who CAN die is not immortal. If God sustains his life for 4,000 years the man never died but his CONSTITUTION is MORTAL.

Now all that remains to decide is can death touch Hitler again. YES and NO. Hebrews 9:27 say that it is given to men ONCE to die. No exceptions are mentioned and no exceptions are recorded in the Bible. Hitler is MORTAL but cannot die again. That is why the torment of the lost never ends. Notice that two of the most evil men, the Beast and the False Prophet, go "ALIVE" to the Lake of Fire (Rev.19:20)

Now, what about the BELIEVER? He is IMMORTAL not because he has more power than Hitler, but because he POSSESSES ETERNAL LIFE. He has, INTRINSICALLY, the LIFE and NATURE of God, and this is an indestructible life (2nd Pet.1:4).

 

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

The physical, mental, emotional, and social suffering that Jesus experienced whilst on earth was not something He had been through before. Following His baptism to fulfill righteousness He was led by the Holy Spirit to be tested in the wilderness in preparation for more suffering that would ultimately lead to His REJECTION FOR OUR REDEMPTION. The term SUFFERING SERVANT implies SACRIFICIAL SUFFERING, the type of obedience that is learned by experience. 

Heb 5:8-9  though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.  (9)  And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

YES. And it is very important that He did this. Although it is mostly taught, God did not require man to keep laws. God's command to men was to EAT. If you eat something, after a few hours you can be dissected and you will not find the food you ate. Your metabolism has processed the food and it has become one with you. You are what you eat. And God anted man to be normal humans but who had eaten His fruit. That is, taken His LIFE and NATURE in and become one with them. John's gospel deals with this (Jn.20:30-31).

And you will find that John's gospel is about eating. Our Lord Jesus is a Lamb, Manna, Bread, a Tree and Flesh that we must eat. Finally, He is air (Pneuma) that must be breathed IN (Jn.20:22). Why? So that we can partake of His accomplished HUMAN NATURE that was INTRINSICALLY steered by the divine nature. If you want to be successful against sin, keeping the law will not help. Adam and Eve were NOT fallen when thy sinned. The solution is to be one with Christ IN HIS HUMANITY. So when Christ suffered, He could legally have backed out of it. God is 100% righteous and would not make the innocent to suffer. But if you want to be Christ's disciple, you have to be equipped to suffer when innocent. In EATING Christ you partake of His accomplished nature. So Colossians 2:10 says that you are "complete IN Him". 

This process of a perfect human life steered and energized by the divine life is the theme of John's gospel.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. (Jn 14:20)

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. (Jn 15:4)

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Hitler is MORTAL but cannot die again. That is why the torment of the lost never ends. Notice that two of the most evil men, the Beast and the False Prophet, go "ALIVE" to the Lake of Fire (Rev.19:20)

Now, what about the BELIEVER? He is IMMORTAL not because he has more power than Hitler, but because he POSSESSES ETERNAL LIFE. He has, INTRINSICALLY, the LIFE and NATURE of God, and this is an indestructible life (2nd Pet.1:4).

We disagree.  A mortal soul most certainly can die.  This is called the second death.  Only those who partake in the First Resurrection or the second resurrection after the GWTJ will inherit immortality, which is eternal life. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Selah7

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, Selah7 said:

We disagree.  A mortal soul most certainly can die.  This is called the second death.  Only those who partake in the First Resurrection or the second resurrection after the GWTJ will inherit immortality, which is eternal life. 

The Second Death is a concept for the Greek word "perdition". It does not mean second in time. It means "second of two". The Greek word "perdition" does not mean cessation of sensory inputs like the body. Rather, it means "exquisite lack of well-being" (Vine). In the garden of Gethsemane our Lord Jesus, still alive and communication with His Father and His disciples, cried; "my SOUL is sorrowful UNTO DEATH". He did not die. Instead He sweated blood. In Matthew 10:28 our Lord warns of a death OTHER than a bodily death. Isaiah and Mark describe it as "their worm will not die and their fire will not be quenched". John, in Revelation, says "THEIR torment is DAY and NIGHT".

All these examples point to MORTAL men experiencing a death that does not affect their mortality.

Just one more point that you might want to (re)-consider. Those who partake of the "first" resurrection do not inherit immortality. They REIGN with Christ for the first 1,000 years of His everlasting Kingdom. The "FIRST" resurrection is a resurrection of REWARD for those who ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life. The Greek - "protos" - can mean "first in TIME", and it can mean "first in IMPORTANCE". The context must decide.

[Selah7]

47 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The Second Death is a concept for the Greek word "perdition". It does not mean second in time. It means "second of two". The Greek word "perdition" does not mean cessation of sensory inputs like the body. Rather, it means "exquisite lack of well-being" (Vine). In the garden of Gethsemane our Lord Jesus, still alive and communication with His Father and His disciples, cried; "my SOUL is sorrowful UNTO DEATH". He did not die. Instead He sweated blood. In Matthew 10:28 our Lord warns of a death OTHER than a bodily death. Isaiah and Mark describe it as "their worm will not die and their fire will not be quenched". John, in Revelation, says "THEIR torment is DAY and NIGHT".

All these examples point to MORTAL men experiencing a death that does not affect their mortality.

Just one more point that you might want to (re)-consider. Those who partake of the "first" resurrection do not inherit immortality. They REIGN with Christ for the first 1,000 years of His everlasting Kingdom. The "FIRST" resurrection is a resurrection of REWARD for those who ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life. The Greek - "protos" - can mean "first in TIME", and it can mean "first in IMPORTANCE". The context must decide.

Sorry to say, we disagree on just about all your points.  I don’t even know where to start…

To begin with, the second death refers to the death of the soul.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The First Resurrection to immortality is very real, AdHoc.  

Revelation 20:1  ¶And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 
2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 
3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 
4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 
5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
 

[Selah7]

@AdHoc

Here, for example, is Satan’s fate—the Second Death.

Ezekiel 28:18-19 (KJV)  
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

So those who are not part of the first resurrection at the end of this earth age and/or don't become part of the second resurrection at the end of the Millennium at the Great White Throne Judgment, their fate is to be no more, the Second Death.

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Sorry to say, we disagree on just about all your points.  I don’t even know where to start…

To begin with, the second death refers to the death of the soul.

It's hard to answer. You did not show any sentence of mine to be wrong. And I quoted our Lord Jesus crying out that His soul was experiencing death in Gethsemane. Would you not rather say that we agree?

7 hours ago, Selah7 said:

So those who are not part of the first resurrection at the end of this earth age and/or don't become part of the second resurrection at the end of the Millennium at the Great White Throne Judgment, their fate is to be no more, the Second Death.

Well ... I don't think you meant it, but if the death of the soul is "to be no more", when did our Lord Jesus cease to exist after Gethsemane? God promised, in Matthew 10:28, "the death of the soul" but called it "Gehenna". But Matthew 10:28 says that ALSO the body can be killed. This must be true because in three scriptures, 2 in Matthew and 1 in Mark, you can enter "Gehenna" with "hands" and "feet and "eyes" (Matt.5:30, 18:8, Mk.9:43). But if these are annihilated, how is it possible to "LOOK UPON THEM" in Isaiah 66:24?

But a further problem is created if you say that those of Revelation 21:8 "cease to exist". How can they be found outside the gates AND refused entry, if they cease being? (See 21:26).

Finally, your understanding of the death of the soul being annihilation recreates the problem above. If the second death is the wages of sins, then our Lord Jesus must have faced it. After all, He paid the full price for our sins. He must have experienced the Second Death otherwise God loaded the scales of justice in favor of Jesus. If Jesus paid in full, He must have experienced what sinners face - the second death. And if so, according to your understanding, He must "be no more".

The matter is not so easy.

[Daniel Marsh]

On 2/11/2023 at 6:57 PM, grahampaul said:

 

i believe the soul is nether  immortal or eternal,it is our breath life,passed on through the seed, when we die it is no more.

 

Isaiah 14:1-11 teaches otherwise.  

 

Isaiah 14:1-11
Easy-to-Read Version
Israel Will Return Home
14 The Lord will again show his love to Jacob. He will again choose the people of Israel. He will give them their land. Then the non-Israelites[a] will join the Israelites, and both will become one family—Jacob’s family. 2 Those nations will bring the Israelites back to their land. The men and women from the other nations will become slaves to Israel. In the past, those people forced the Israelites to become their slaves. But in the future the Israelites will defeat those nations, and Israel will then rule over them in the Lord’s land. 3 In the past, you were slaves. People forced you to work hard. But the Lord will take away the hard work you were forced to do.

A Song About the King of Babylon
4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:

The king was cruel when he ruled us,
    but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers;
    he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people.
    He never stopped beating them.
He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger.
    He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet.
    Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king,
    and now you are finished.
Even the pine trees are happy.
    The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.
They say, “The king chopped us down,
    but now the king has fallen,
    and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited
    that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
    of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
    from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
    “Now you are as dead as we are.
    Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
    The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
    and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.

[grahampaul]

1 hour ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Isaiah 14:1-11 teaches otherwise. 

 

1 hour ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Isaiah 14:1-11 teaches otherwise.  

 

 

i fail to see how,

we are made formed and created, body soul and spirit.when God breathed into man the breath of life we became a living person.we have breath life which is in the blood, when the soul is gone our body dies and then rots, which leaves what in the grave to resurrect but the spirit of the unbeliever.we believers are with Christ.

 

 

[Vine Abider]

On 2/13/2023 at 3:59 PM, AdHoc said:

The matter is not so easy.

Yup!