The Last Trumpet on The Last Day

[Mr. M]

4 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

Okie Dokie.  I still have lots to learn. 

The best part is that since I spend hours every day

in the Word of God, I learn something new every day.

That what keeps me going, and that's what I am here

to share; "treasures old and new". Mt. 13:52

[OneLight]

10 hours ago, Mr. M said:

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound,

and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The dead are raised on the last day 

John 11:

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 

26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

The last enemy to be destroyed is death

1 Corinthians 15:

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end

to all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 

26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

Christ reigns from heaven until all is restored

Acts 3:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing

may come from the presence of the Lord, 

20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 

21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken

by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Christ gathers His elect on the last day

John 6:

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing,

but should raise it up at the last day. 

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him

may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

[G2078] eschatos last, final

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts;

I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I used to be confused about this very thing, until I realized that Martha, or anyone at that time, had to knowledge we have due to the NT.  All they had were OT references and the last day is said to be when the dead will rise.  It's not that there is a contradiction within scripture, just that we were taught much more about the end times than what they were.

[Selah7]

11 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

I like to remind myself that eventually we will find out

how little we have known all along.

I am not cocky about what I know, because I assume

what I don't know is as vast as the Cosmos.

2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything,

he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 

3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

- 1 Corinthians 13:9-12 (KJV)

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)

I believe that the trump of God will be the last one, the 7th trumpet—the very one written about below:

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

- 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 (KJV)

My understanding is that the 7th seal has to be opened before any of the trumps sound.  
s e l a h

Imho Paul did not know about the 7 Trumpets of Wrath until it was revealed to apostle John at patmos island circa 85 AD. So what Paul mean as the last Trump is the voices of Trumpets of rapture. First its blown to raise the death saints from graves, then it might sound again to gather the living wise virgins to the cloud.

[Diaste]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:14 AM, Mr. M said:

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound,

and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The dead are raised on the last day 

John 11:

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 

26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

The last enemy to be destroyed is death

1 Corinthians 15:

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end

to all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 

26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

Christ reigns from heaven until all is restored

Acts 3:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing

may come from the presence of the Lord, 

20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 

21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken

by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Christ gathers His elect on the last day

John 6:

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing,

but should raise it up at the last day. 

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him

may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

[G2078] eschatos last, final

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts;

I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Hello.

Very interesting discussion.

When I look for this idea of 'resurrection at the last day' I find five references: 4 in John 6, one in John 11.

There is one more reference in John 12 but that one refers to judging and not the resurrection.

In John 7 the 'last day' refers to the last day of the feast, so I'm looking at that one either. 

All 5 occurrences are 'eschatos hemera' or 'extreme last day'. So right off I'm thinking it's the last day of all days that ever happened and there won't be another 24 hour day of a morning and an evening. This is it. The last day ever. I could be wrong. 

In John 11 Martha is the one who said 'in the resurrection of the last day'. So she knew from the OT and/or heard Jesus preach this idea earlier. Just pointing out the idea wasn't foreign to the people. Like it wasn't a difficult concept to grasp, maybe even common knowledge. 

There are several resurrection passage in the OT but I don't see any of them teach when that resurrection will happen. If any of them do say When? please, post them. Perhaps the When? part is a revelation through Christ only. I'm not sure at the this point.

Daniel 12 suggests a time line for the general resurrection, after the time of trouble. That isn't as specific as 'at the last day'.

So when is the 'last day' when the general resurrection happens?

It seems to me it's after the 1000 years. I don't have any biblical proof beyond Zech 14:

Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles

This is in the millennial kingdom. The survivor nations pilgrimage to Jerusalem year after year. In the millennial kingdom then, there are years. 

In the  millennial kingdom survivor nations pilgrimage to celebrate the feast of Tabernacles. The feast of Tabernacles falls in the 7 month, on the 15th day, and lasts for 7 days. In the millennial kingdom then, there are months and days and weeks which are counted to know when the Feast of Tabernacles begins.

That would have to mean the last day, 'eschatos hemera', isn't before the millennial kingdom it's after, when the 1ooo years are complete. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

There are several resurrection passage in the OT but I don't see any of them teach when that resurrection will happen. If any of them do say When? please, post them. Perhaps the When? part is a revelation through Christ only. I'm not sure at the this point.

Could you post those passages in the OT?

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Daniel 12 suggests a time line for the general resurrection, after the time of trouble. That isn't as specific as 'at the last day'.

So when is the 'last day' when the general resurrection happens?

Are you referring to the second resurrection when you say “general resurrection”?

s e l a h

[Diaste]

20 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

Could you post those passages in the OT?

Dan 12:2

Isaiah 26:19

Psalms 16, 49 and 71.

Daniel 12:2 is probably the clearest concerning a resurrection of a lot of people.

20 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

Are you referring to the second resurrection when you say “general resurrection”?

s e l a h

I suppose so. What I mean is the 2nd resurrection raises all the dead per Rev 20:12-15. In my opinion this is the same as Daniel 12:2-3.

[Last Daze]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:14 AM, Mr. M said:

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound,

and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The dead are raised on the last day 

John 11:

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 

26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

The last enemy to be destroyed is death

1 Corinthians 15:

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end

to all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 

26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

Christ reigns from heaven until all is restored

Acts 3:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing

may come from the presence of the Lord, 

20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 

21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken

by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Christ gathers His elect on the last day

John 6:

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing,

but should raise it up at the last day. 

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him

may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

[G2078] eschatos last, final

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts;

I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

The last trumpet on the last day, the trump of God:

Then the Lord will appear over them,    [in the clouds]
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;     [the seventh plague (trumpet / bowl)]
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,     [the trump of God]
And march in the storm winds of the south.
The Lord of armies will protect them.
And they will devour and trample on the slingstones;
And they will drink and be boisterous as with wine;
And they will be filled like a sacrificial basin,
Drenched like the corners of the altar.
And the Lord their God will save them on that day 
As the flock of His people;
For they are like the precious stones of a crown,
Sparkling on His land.

Zechariah 9:14-16

[truth7t7]

On 3/4/2023 at 2:53 AM, Diaste said:

There are several resurrection passage in the OT but I don't see any of them teach when that resurrection will happen. If any of them do say When? please, post them. 

Daniel 12 suggests a time line for the general resurrection, after the time of trouble. That isn't as specific as 'at the last day'.

"At That Time"

"Yes" Daniel 12:1-2 is a "Parallel" teaching of the GWTJ seen in Revelation 20:14-15

Daniel goes into great detail on the events and timing

1.)Daniel states below that there will be a time of great trouble never experienced before in history (The Great Tribulation) and he uses the words "At That Time"

2.) Daniel clearly states that at this time (The Book Of Life) is opened in (Final Judgement), "Everyone That Shall Be Found Written In The Book"

3.) Daniel clearly shows that the resurrection of "All" takes place at this time, "Everlasting Life" "Everlasting Contempt"

Conclusion: Daniel clearly teaches that at the time of the great tribulation that the resurrection of "All" takes place in the final judgement, the book of life will be opened "Once"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Edited March 9, 2023 by truth7t7

[TheBlade]

On 2/28/2023 at 4:23 PM, R. Hartono said:

The trumpet of rapture is not the same with 7 trumpet of wrath.

The rapture trumpet is blown when Jesus send His angels to gather the saints 

 we do tend to get stuck on a word "last". It seems so easy yet far from it. I agree from what I know about this. Like saying Matt 24 is the same as 1st Thess which from what I read and understand is not. Praise God

So I like Paul "we which remain". I will never miss Him for I am always right now ready watching. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by TheBlade