Four questions for YECs - (and a little history of creationism vs evolution)

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

So Genesis 1:2 testifying of earth being without form and void, it actually meant that earth had not existed yet rather than how people use void today to mean as if emptied of or removed.

v.2 doesn't say that.  Research the word "and" and "was" and "without form" as used in the REST of the OT.  This is how v.2 should have been translated, based on how the words were translated elsewhere.

But, the earth became an uninhabited wasteland.  I'll leave you to your own conclusions.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, BeyondET said:

You believe the universe wasn't created til the 4th day, what was the light in? That's a contradiction of your own statement.

I believe the universe was created (bara) LONG before Adam showed up.  So Gen 1 is a summary of a restoration of earth.

Edited April 12, 2023 by FreeGrace

[ChristB4us]

25 minutes ago, dad2 said:

No existent!

Maybe He prefers creating stuff in the light?

Read what was there before He said Let there be light.

Genesis 1:In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Reads to me that empty white canvas consisted of deep waters and that the earth and the universe did not exist yet.

[dad2]

45 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

Read what was there before He said Let there be light.

Genesis 1:In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Reads to me that empty white canvas consisted of deep waters and that the earth and the universe did not exist yet.

Since the universe as we know it did not exist, it seems the focus of the verse is planet earth. So it was not yet formed and the waters were dark. But then something moved over those waters. -God! So then there was light over the deep. The areas over which He moved were light, and apparently that was called day. The other areas from which He moved or 'hovered' were dark, and called night. Later the sun was created to continue this. So..?

[ChristB4us]

57 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

v.2 doesn't say that.  Research the word "and" and "was" and "without form" as used in the REST of the OT.  This is how v.2 should have been translated, based on how the words were translated elsewhere.

But, the earth became an uninhabited wasteland.  I'll leave you to your own conclusions.

I conclude that learning from the Greek and Hebrew without His wisdom avails you not.

For something to be a wasteland, it had to be something first.  This is a page from Satanism where the claim was that God was jealous of Satan's world with dinosaurs and all that and He destroyed it; making it void.  NOT!

You may not have gotten it from Satanism but it is circling around in Christian circles unwittingly, as it does originate from Satanism and yes, you may come across a Satanist arguing for this claim, ( I did ) no thanks to the evolution theory which is a false science for how they are making such claims.

As it is, I totally disagree with you on what you believe that "right" translation is.

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

I believe the universe was created (bara) LONG before Adam showed up.  So Gen 1 is a summary of a restoration of earth.

And it takes retranslating the KJV Bible for you to believe that.

Again, I do not believe your translation nor the evolution theory nor Satanism for their rendering of what the KJV has it as in Genesis 1st chapter.

[ChristB4us]

9 minutes ago, dad2 said:

Since the universe as we know it did not exist, it seems the focus of the verse is planet earth. So it was not yet formed and the waters were dark. But then something moved over those waters. -God! So then there was light over the deep. The areas over which He moved were light, and apparently that was called day. The other areas from which He moved or 'hovered' were dark, and called night. Later the sun was created to continue this. So..?

I had posted;  1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

Before God created the heavens and the earth, what would you call that place then?

You had replied;  "No existent!"

Just pointing out there was an existence involving deep waters for when the earth did not exist nor the universe before God started creation by creating the first day with that light to govern as there was evening and morning that first day.

[dad2]

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

I had posted;  1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

Before God created the heavens and the earth, what would you call that place then?

You had replied;  "No existent!"

Just pointing out there was an existence involving deep waters for when the earth did not exist nor the universe before God started creation by creating the first day with that light to govern as there was evening and morning that first day.

The universe as we know it with stars and moon and sun etc did not exist. The earth existed. It was not finished or formed in day one. So I think the planet existed, but that it was not land and sea etc yet. The sun and stars did not exist then. Light did exist.

 

So when the Spirit of God moved over the waters, I would assume that primarily (if not exclusively) meant over earth. The still unformed or completed earth with waters etc.

Edited April 12, 2023 by dad2

[BeyondET]

5 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

Before God created the heavens and the earth, what would you call that place then?

I can imagine an empty canvas in the terms that I can understand from God's point of view.  It is not like He created the third Heaven where God's throne is and so He stepped outside of that realm and created the heavens and the earth.

So what was the point of that light on the first day?  The creation of the first day in this reality we are living in.

If you were to apply the analogy of Star Trek holodeck, everything has to be programmed and set up to run for any participant to engage on the holodeck.  It was perfect until a virus entered the programming.

As sin entered the world and death by sin, so has a virus enter the holodeck program and death to all participant in that fallen and slowly corrupting program.

Our redemption in leaving the reality of this sin fallen world/holoprogram is by believing Jesus Christ is the door by Whom we enter into God's presence outside of the holodeck to live with God and all that is good forever.

 

The heavens is the universe, everything physical is in it.

[BeyondET]

5 hours ago, dad2 said:

God said. Why pretend it is a mystery what day the sun was created? No one's opinion matters on that. God is light and He lights New Jerusalem so there is no need at all for the sun. How is it that some people wonder how light could exist before the silly little sun existed? (compared to the power of God)

The sun isn't a little silly, it's a vital creation for life on earth until the New Jerusalem.

Edited April 12, 2023 by BeyondET