Four questions for YECs - (and a little history of creationism vs evolution)

[ChristB4us]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Really having to grasp at straws, I see.  Until you can rationally and reasonably explain WHY the Holy Spirit inspired Jude to quote from Enoch, you have no case whatsoever.  And none of your silly comments about 'breaking wind/blowing raspberry' mean a thing.  Other than to show the depth of your thinking.

What even is this raspberry thing?  

Just a pun in humor on what the poster had done.

Anyway can you ascertain that the fragmented documents of the Book of Enoch is the same  as the whole Book of Enoch found in the area of Alexandria?

Can you compare the fragments with that whole Book or not?  Can you find that quote from Jude in that?

I see the fragments as Jewish fables we were warned about and that whole Book of Enoch as a fake one by which I believe that is where you are getting that quote from Jude.

Can you prove otherwise?  Be sure not to allow a website refer to that fragmented copy and yet quote from the whole Book of Enoch found as assuming they are one and the same.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

Anyway can you ascertain that the fragmented documents of the Book of Enoch is the same  as the whole Book of Enoch found in the area of Alexandria?

I focus on what the Bible SAYS.  Jude, the brother of Jesus, and inspired by the Holy Spirit, quoted from the book of Enoch.  And yet some refuse to accept FACTS.

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

Can you compare the fragments with that whole Book or not?  Can you find that quote from Jude in that?

Why would I have to?  Since the Holy Spirit inspired Jude to quote from it, why would I challenge what the Holy Spirit inspires?  

In fact, why would anyone do that?

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

I see the fragments as Jewish fables we were warned about and that whole Book of Enoch as a fake one by which I believe that is where you are getting that quote from Jude.

You are free to "see" whatever you want to see.  I fully see the truths of the Bible.

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

Can you prove otherwise?  Be sure not to allow a website refer to that fragmented copy and yet quote from the whole Book of Enoch found as assuming they are one and the same.

You are the one who hasn't proven that what the Holy Spirit inspired Jude to write is fraudulent.  

It is clear from all your posts that you just won't and don't accept what the Holy Spirit inspired Jude to write.  I do.

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

I focus on what the Bible SAYS.  Jude, the brother of Jesus, and inspired by the Holy Spirit, quoted from the book of Enoch.  And yet some refuse to accept FACTS.

Where did Moses get the accounts of Genesis from?  How did Moses knew what Adam and Eve had said, let alone Cain, Abel and even Noah?  The Holy Spirit.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

Just because Jude as led by the Holy Spirit prophesied of what Enoch had prophesied, it does not mean Jude got it from the Book of Enoch for why the Book of Enoch could not have existed as supposedly written by the author Enoch himself before the flood.

And if you note what Enoch was prophesying about, it was not fallen angels having sex with women but wicked men and the kinds of sins they were actually committing.

[BeyondET]

17 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

 

The lost books were not accepted because they were going against accepted scripture as in scripture cannot go against scripture.

I would agree about the current Enoch book.

Though are you referring the lost books as all the ones mentioned in scripture that aren't available?  

[FreeGrace]

20 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

You have to ascertain if the dating is on the Dead Sea Scrolls which was fragmented or the whole Book of Enoch as found around Alexandria.

Can scripture go against scripture?  No, and that is why the "lost" books are not accepted as scripture.

Think of the Book of Enoch in this way;  if you wanted to make a fake Book of Enoch, you would quote some accepted scripture from Jude to make it look authentic. Hence the Book of Enoch came after Jude.  This in regard to the whole book of Enoch that was supposedly found and not the fragmented one found at the Dead Sea Scrolls which I can attribute to being of Jewish fables.

Now for that supposed whole Book of Enoch, when the author of the Book of Enoch is claiming to be Enoch himself, how did this happen?  Moses never referred to Enoch's writing as if Noah had brought it with him after the flood. 

Enoch Chapter 1

Enoch 1: 4 Who will hereafter tread upon Mount Sinai; appear with his hosts; and be manifested in the strength of his power from heaven.

Wow.  Mt. Sinai before that mountain became Mt. Sinai because that was why it was called such from which the Ten Commandments came from.

First clue of plagiarism right there.

Then you have to discern the offsprings in that book of Enoch.  How can spirits mingle with flesh for flesh to give birth to flesh?

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Is it any wonder why the result of this union are giants & mighty men but still men?

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Not the angels as in the sons of heaven, as the Book of Enoch claims.

Enoch Chapter 7

Enoch 7:1. It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful. 2. And when the angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.

So angels that were not made to procreate, suddenly decide they can?  Not!!  We do not see them as written as fallen angels.  Funny that.

And if you read Enoch chapter 18, it testifies that there were celestial objects in the heavens that did not come forth when God called them forth and were in a "hell" in the third heavens which is God's throne.

Book of Enoch Chapter 18

Enoch 18:16. The stars which roll over fire are those which transgressed the commandment of God before their time arrived; for they came not in their proper season. Therefore was He offended with them, and bound them, until the period of the consummation of their crimes in the secret year.

Yeah, right. ( <---- note of sarcasm) NOT!!!!

Isaiah 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

Cults can tell nine truths and slip in one lie.

The lost books were not accepted because they were going against accepted scripture as in scripture cannot go against scripture.

Since no lie can be of the truth, that whole Book of Enoch is a fake.

As for the fragmented one found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, we can safely say that is one of the Jewish fables we were warned about.  Not that big of a leap when nobody carried any writings of Enoch over in the Ark to survive the global flood.

Let's just focus on the real problem here.  Calling the book of Enoch fraudulent is calling what Jude wrote, UNDER THE INSPIRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT fraudulent.

Why would the Holy Spirit inspire Jude to quote from a fraudulent book?

That is the question that you keep dodging because why kind of answer is there?

Your claim makes no sense, has no evidence, and basically blasphemes the Holy Spirit.

Since you won't answer my question, there is no credibility in your claim.

[FreeGrace]

19 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

I see the fragments as Jewish fables we were warned about and that whole Book of Enoch as a fake one by which I believe that is where you are getting that quote from Jude.

Can you prove otherwise?  Be sure not to allow a website refer to that fragmented copy and yet quote from the whole Book of Enoch found as assuming they are one and the same.

What is really "fragmented" is your unsubstantiated claim about Jude's quote of the book of Enoch.  

Still NO proof of your claim.  Just opinion.  I don't have to prove anything, since I BELIEVE all that the Bible says. 

Jude was inspired by the Holy Spirit.  I wonder if that has gone completely over your head.  So what Jude wrote was guided by the Holy Spirit.  So calling the book of Enoch fraudulent is calling the guidance by the Holy Spirit fraudulent.

There is nothing to say to support your opinion, and since my question is still being ignored, there is NO credibility in your opinion.

[FreeGrace]

16 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

And if you note what Enoch was prophesying about, it was not fallen angels having sex with women but wicked men and the kinds of sins they were actually committing.

You are free to your own opinions.  But there are no facts that back them up.  And obviously avoiding my question demonstrates there is no credibility in your claims.

[ChristB4us]

7 hours ago, BeyondET said:

I would agree about the current Enoch book.

Though are you referring the lost books as all the ones mentioned in scripture that aren't available?  

Such as...?

[Daniel Marsh]

"

The Bible mentions the Lilith only once, as a dweller in waste places (Isaiah 34:14), but the characterization of the Lilith or the lili (in the singular or plural) as a seducer or slayer of children has a long pre-history in ancient Babylonian religion. J. A. Scurlock writes, “The lilû-demons and their female counterparts the lilitu or ardat lilî-demons were hungry for victims because they had once been human; they were the spirits of young men and women who had themselves died young.” These demons “slipped through windows into people’s houses looking for victims to take the place of husbands and wives whom they themselves never had.” Another, related demoness was Lamashtu, who threatened new-born babies and “had a disagreeable taste for human flesh and blood.” The figures of Lamashtu and the lilû and lilitu demons eventually converged to form one type of evil figure that seduced men and women and attacked children (Hutter).  The liliths are known particularly from the Aramaic incantation bowls from Sassanian and early Islamic Iraq and Iran (roughly 400–800 C.E.)."  https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/lilith

"...Lilith as the first wife of Adam."  https://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Power/lilith.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

There are myths that she had children with Adam.

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I am not going to keep up.   Anyone can give me a breif summary? please