The End of this Age

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

The end of the wrath of God. Armageddon is over and Christ sets his feet on the Mount of Olives

And what takes place "After" Jesus touching down on the Mount of Olives?

[FreeGrace]

7 hours ago, OneLight said:

Does the bible teach everything about what God does?  I think we can agree that it does not.  We are told enough to reconcile us back to God, through Jesus.  We are not taught everything there is to know through scripture, which is why people use the phrase of "when scripture is silent, so should we remain silent".   John even claimed that if all that Jesus did were written down, the world would not be able to contain all that was written. 

Since the bible does not tell us one way or another, we can only guess what will happen during the millennium.  Your guess is that because you did not read in scripture that people will be saved, then there will be nobody that finds salvation during the millennium.  My guess is that God continues to save people during the millennium, even if it's not written.  For me, that reflects the true nature of God.

I understand your point about silence.  However, there is circumstantial evidence that helps to see direction of things.

I will repeat my point about salvation during the MK.

1.  There is just one resurrection for the saved, and 1 Cor 15:23 places that resurrection at the Second Advent, which is confirmed in Rev 20:4.  

2.  If there are saved people during the MK, they would be mortals, in need of immortality to be able to live with God forever.  They must have His life to live with Him.  

3.  A saved mortal would need a body, like all believers receive at resurrection, just like that of Jesus' body.  There is no mention of any such event.

4.  So, if there were to be saved people during the MK, 1 Cor 15:23 cannot be correct.

This is process of elimination.  Or circumstantial evidence.  Not sure which.

But the evidence leads away from conversion during the MK.

[FreeGrace]

6 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Now let's see: the earth will be ruled by Christ and the saints, and it will be "filled with the knowledge of the Lord like the waters cover the sea" -- and there's some doubt about whether people will get saved?? 

1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him", which is obviously all the saved, will be resurrected "when He comes", which is a prophetic reference to the Second Advent.

So, if there will be any conversions during the MK, why doesn't the Bible make that clear.  And if there will be, how can 1 Cor 15:23 be correct?

[FreeGrace]

6 hours ago, OneLight said:

To some there is doubt, but I am not one of them.  I correctly state that we have not been specifically told through scripture that people will or will not be saved during the millennium, though it strongly suggests some will be.

Can you point to any evidence that "strongly suggests" some will be saved?

I've given evidence that strongly suggests that there will be none.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Simple, Jesus returns and destroys the wicked, just as a potter destroys his clay vessels with a Rod Of Iron (The End)

The "end" for all unbelievers is at the GWT judgment, which is clearly after the MK and the battle of Gog and Magog.  Then the eternal state, Rev 21.

Or, do you view Rev 21 as only spiritual as well?

[OneLight]

2 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I understand your point about silence.  However, there is circumstantial evidence that helps to see direction of things.

I will repeat my point about salvation during the MK.

1.  There is just one resurrection for the saved, and 1 Cor 15:23 places that resurrection at the Second Advent, which is confirmed in Rev 20:4.  

2.  If there are saved people during the MK, they would be mortals, in need of immortality to be able to live with God forever.  They must have His life to live with Him.  

3.  A saved mortal would need a body, like all believers receive at resurrection, just like that of Jesus' body.  There is no mention of any such event.

4.  So, if there were to be saved people during the MK, 1 Cor 15:23 cannot be correct.

This is process of elimination.  Or circumstantial evidence.  Not sure which.

But the evidence leads away from conversion during the MK.

If you truly understood my point, my friend, you would of understood that not everything that is to come is in scripture.  Prophesy is basically an outline, not a point by point detailed description of what's going to happen from beginning to end.  When we try to "fill in the gaps", we will almost always end up showing our ignorance in the end.

Take it like I said, you see it one way and I see it another.  We will know in due time who was closest to the truth.

[OneLight]

5 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Can you point to any evidence that "strongly suggests" some will be saved?

I've given evidence that strongly suggests that there will be none.

I can do better than that. I will use scripture ...

John 3:16-21

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.  And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.  For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.  But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

Hebrews 13:8

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

What the scriptures says about end times and the things that are commonly believed are quite different. Case in point, 1 Corinthians 15:23

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

From your post I think you are saying that Christ comes only one time, at the end of the trumpets or possibly the vials. If this is true, what do you do with all of the other comings of Christ?  especially, in light of the scripture that you posted.

I don't try to pin Christ's Second Advent to any of the judgments.  1 Cor 15:23 is about the resurrection and glorification of all believers.  In the OT there were only 2 prophecies regarding the "coming" of the Messiah.

1.  First Advent;  as a baby to grow up and become the Suffering Servant and Savior

2.  Second Advent; as King of kings and Lord of lords, ruling the nations with a rod of iron.

So, all references to the "coming" of Christ in the NT refers specifically to the end of the Tribulation when the King returns to earth for the MK.

I'm not sure what you mean by "all the other comings of Christ".  Please clarify.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

If you truly understood my point, my friend, you would of understood that not everything that is to come is in scripture.  Prophesy is basically an outline, not a point by point detailed description of what's going to happen from beginning to end.  When we try to "fill in the gaps", we will almost always end up showing our ignorance in the end.

Take it like I said, you see it one way and I see it another.  We will know in due time who was closest to the truth.

I am aware, sir.  I am also aware of circumstantial evidence and the process of elimination.  

By the time we get to that "due time", it really won't matter who was closest to the truth.    This isn't hand grenades.  

Kinda like the debates between Arminians and Calvinists.  Nearly polar opposites.  It will be interesting to see their reactions as all this comes to pass.

Great discussion!

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

I can do better than that. I will use scripture ...

  When I asked for evidence that "strongly suggests" some will get saved during the MK, I meant "use Scripture".  

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

John 3:16-21

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.  And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.  For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.  But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

Hebrews 13:8

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

All are great verses, of course.  Yet, none reference the MK.  Of course any mortal who places their faith in Christ will be saved.  Regardless of when, on the humanity timeline.