What does it take 'to Believe'?

[Neighbor]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Can we believe in Jesus, if we don't know His words?

Yes! I think you will find 1 Corinthians 2 in it's entirety will verify that assertion for you, with emphasis on verse 14;

Amplified Bible
But the natural [unbelieving] man does not accept the things [the teachings and revelations] of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness [absurd and illogical] to him; and he is incapable of understanding them, because they are spiritually discerned and appreciated, [and he is unqualified to judge spiritual matters].

 

The natural man can read and read and read to no avail. Without the impetus of the specific call  from the Holy Spirit that will be no turning about and no salvation. Without that there is no understanding.

Conversely no understanding is necessary to receive hear and heed that call by the Holy Spirit to one's salvation.
 

The word verifies this

 

[NConly]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Not one?  Are you sure?  If telling would make one person believe, wouldn't that be enough?  If you were telling it for the purposes of God, would it matter anyhow?  

My grandfather And Grandmother bought 100 acres of land and their 11 kids settled the land by the road as they grew up. Everything else was used for farming. My Grandmother and one Aunt did not cuss, drink, smoke, or holler, spake kids. Everyone else did. we would consider ourselves lucky if we got spanked by our aunt or uncle and it ended there. Most times by the time we got home they had called Mom and we got the switch and if that was not enough when Dad came home if he did not like what Mom said he would also use his leather belt on us.  Even with all the cussing, smoking, drinking, hollering and multiple spanking for one wrong we were taught that God made us and never use his name in vain. It took a few spankings for me and my 6 brother and 4 sisters to learn God made us and not to use his name in vain.  The only Bible I ever saw growing up was on a coffee table that could not be touched.

I'm Glad they taught us about God.

[Marathoner]

I believed that God existed. That was all I knew. 

It began when I found myself restless one evening, the entirety of my life washing over me like the tide washing the shore of a sea. I witnessed the evil I had seen and the horrible things that had been done; and then I witnessed how I wasn't any different from those who committed those evil acts. The evil was there in my own heart and I despaired, for I was a terrible man who had done terrible things in my terrible insolence. I was undone!

Come to Me, the Lord said in my misery, for I am strong, and there is nothing you have done that is too great for Me. 

I was terrified, and my heart felt like lead in my chest. "Lord, I don't know You!," I cried out to God. "I'm an evil and filthy man! I'm not worthy of coming to You!"

I surely know you, the Lord said. Come to Me, for you belong to no other. You are the work of My hand, set aside for My purpose before You were born. The time has come for you to seek Me; if you will draw near and trust My word, then you shall stand before God.

"Tell me what I must do, Lord." 

30 years later, here I am. It's never been about me. What I have, the Lord gave to me. When the Son of God revealed Himself, I heard the voice of the Lord and believed Him. I trusted His word, and that was the end of the world I had known. I believe Him. 

It's not enough to believe in God, for many believe that God is. We believe Him! That's what He gives to us.  

[kwikphilly]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Maybe you do know, but you just can't say, or shall I say, aren't allowed to say, for WHATEVER reason.  

Do you remember your first thoughts? Dreams?  I do.  And they are fairly vivid.  For a long time, when I first got serious,  I searched for them in the Bible, and I thought I would find them, they seem so real.  I can't hardly wait to get to heaven, so many many questions ...

I think when you speak, I hear you somewhat like you are a part of my being that I don't yet know myself, but one day will.  It gives me chills sometimes.  It's like with you, I can see how GOD works through another with completely different gifts and callings, and it brings me peace that I look forward to but can't have right now because MY calling is so different and I sure hope you can understand what I am saying because I probably sound like a nut.  Then again, I'll bet you do that to alot of souls.  

I live A LONG time loving God, or what I knew of Him, with all my heart.  I don't know why I got to live that way for so long, but I did.  So, do you ever wonder if those who were predestined (no freewill, like the prophets God called who didn't want the job and tried to talk God out of it one way or another like Moses, Jonah, and was it Jeremiah??)  KNEW GOD differently than those who are called? 
Example, there are those who HAVE AN all LIFE CHANGING experience when they are born again, and it is like they NEVER KNEW, before that point, the 'goodness' (for lack of words right now) of God leading your life

and then there are those who 'are baptized' who are more like Jesus was, where it needs to be done to follow the will of God and NOT SAYING they don't want it or have any 'miraculous' events take place also, but it is more of acknowledgement of the path they have always been on.  OK, I am asking questions I have never asked and if inappropriate please just delete the whole reply, as I know I have no real Scripture to back any of these...
 

This is something else and if you and I really got into this phenomenon it would probably sound like the basis for a good science fiction story and yes,we'd both sound nuts!!!!

Maybe there is something to the whole " kindred spirits" thing ,you know when folks find some one they just have so many things in common with it sort of like the old " de ja vu" kinda experience?Well,no doubt there is some things well just never know until we do know when we are like HE is in our glorious new form.   

But I think about this,God Breathed LIFE into Adam ,that " Part " of His Glorious Self and that "God DNA" has been a part of us ever since,of course He Knew us from before we were in our mother's womb! Okay,is it starting to sound like a science fiction movie yet,lol?

Well,my point is that we are connected,we all have the very same Source,we all come from the Alpha and the Omega,the Author and Finisher of our Faith ...I'm not going to post verses of Scripture to try to support because as you mentioned,there is no definitive Scripture to back it up-they are simply my thoughts,thoughts that I don't even quite understand so I believe I do know what you are talking about- and I don't think you sound nuts,your thoughts sound very similar to my own--- not sure they're even ":thoughts" but something ya just can't put your finger on-perhaps it is our spirit or a consciousness we are unaware of?

So you asked about my previous ( or maybe earliest)thoughts,dreams.   Profound!I interpret your question to mean- prior to the Awakening or along those lines? Or how about as far back as I can remember?

Now here's the very sci-fi ish part,so many might say":Gee,I never realized Kwik was always nuts!"Sis,when I was very very young,prior to school age,I used to lie in bed ,I think I might have been asleep because I'd wake up reluctantly as I'd have the " feeling" that had I continued to dream Id of had the answers I was yearning,longing to know- to Know God,where I came from ,how I came to be- the answers to Life,the beginning of time and of all things

I suppose its sort of relative to what Dennis was talking about, some measure of Truth that is in each of us- as little babies we just ARE,as we grow we become aware,we discover ourselves and we have an innate desire to learn ..it never leaves us,that is our make up. We discover everything around us and the Heavens Declare His Glory - I believe we are like magnets,being pulled to the polar opposite on the other side of our reality -Eternal realm,Spiritual - Almighty God.   He's Calling to us our entire lives      maybe some of us are a little more atuned to His Presence- His OmniPresence

Okay,I probably shared enough of my thoughts out loud!Do I believe in predestination,not really - I firmly believe we must Choose or rather " Accept"our Jesus to find our Way ( the Way)back to our First Love,the Truth,the Life.   That's the Saving Faith  And through the Grace of God we Can begin to SEE the Eternal things ,the other side of our reality,the Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding that we've been Desiring from the time we came to be and didn't even know it.  

Did I some how answer any of your questions ,do you see I sort of know the connection you feel when we hear one anothers words?It is the UNITY of our Faith,the Heart and Mind of Christ that we are indeed ": kindred spirits"

With love in Christ,Kwik

[enoob57]

It is the Scripture that is a work of the Holy Spirit... Acts 1:16; Heb 3:7; 2 Peter 1:21.

this work has an objective basis called creation. When Adam and Eve were created all that was existing was the truth of God's doing... when Eve listened to the rebellious lie of satan instead of the Words that were from God and ate so also the man the creation (all) changed. The world is cursed and in darkness of lie and filled with those who love the lie... John 3:19, Eph 5:11 because of this truth we are led to this:

2 Peter 1:19 (KJV)

[19] We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

[20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

Peter is, by guidance of the Holy Spirit, instructing us that the Scripture alone is the sufficient work of God by the Holy Spirit to impart truth that can set one free...

 

[kwikphilly]

14 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Yes! I think you will find 1 Corinthians 2 in it's entirety will verify that assertion for you, with emphasis on verse 14;

Amplified Bible
But the natural [unbelieving] man does not accept the things [the teachings and revelations] of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness [absurd and illogical] to him; and he is incapable of understanding them, because they are spiritually discerned and appreciated, [and he is unqualified to judge spiritual matters].

 

The natural man can read and read and read to no avail. Without the impetus of the specific call  from the Holy Spirit that will be no turning about and no salvation. Without that there is no understanding.

Conversely no understanding is necessary to receive hear and heed that call by the Holy Spirit to one's salvation.
 

The word verifies this

 

Jesus Knocks at the door,we open it.     "Can one Believe in Jesus if we do not know His Words ".  He IS the WORD ...   You answered ":yes" but Im not sure I can agree because whether the Word is Logos or Rhema Jesus is Always the Word....so when we " meet" Jesus we do know His Words

You are right about not needing "Understanding",you do not have to Understand to Receive but you must Believe to Receive.

When I knock at someone's door and they do not know me why would they open the door to let me in? They must believe what I say when I introduce myself ,that it will be a good thing to let me come in,right?

Jesus Reveals Himself to those He Reveals Himself to,when He Reveals Himself....He is the Living Word- we come to Knowledge and Understanding  after the Word Abides in us by the Power of Holy Spirit. ..but we certainly HEARD and we answered.   Don't you agree?

Many people have Received Jesus before they ever set eyes on a Bible- Still,it is the Word of God they Received- to say yes or no is hard to answer. Isn't it?

With love in Christ, Kwik

[Neighbor]

32 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Many people have Received Jesus before they ever set eyes on a Bible- Still,it is the Word of God they Received- to say yes or no is hard to answer. Isn't it?

With love in Christ, Kwik

Well,  because I have a unique to me background perhaps I have a unique view too.  I had to "study" religion, belief, and application of it all  for years as I was the go between for families many times a year as they suffered the death and loss of beloved family members. I dealt with most every type of religion one can find in the greater Los Angeles County area anyway.

More often than not I had to sellect  speaker for families for the funerals and then relate to the speaker what I could about the family and the person that had died. I did that as many as five times a day for years. Yet I was an atheist.

Later the families would come to me and as about words,  phrases verse references for grave stone commentary too. I would help them  even correcting spelling. 

All that as background to state:  It meant absolutely nothing to me other than to do my duty  in providing service, for I did not comprehend that Jesus is Lord, God and savior of those that are foreknown and predestined to be turned about from sin against God to my worship of Him.  

That change came not by the word, but in response to prayer to the Word Jesus by others that had prayed for me and even read me the Bible when I was quite young.

 I was, I think, 32 years old when the Holy Spirit challenged me directly,. Dumbstruck, I was turned about from my determined rejection of God in a  twinkling's time.

None of my background mattered; it was me versus the Holy Spirit, round one- no contest instant knockout. I lost, and gained life eternal with God.  - Not of my own  doing, not of my understanding at all, but because God answers prayer. I had been prayed for by those that had loved me and had faith that God answers prayer.

I didn't even have a magic prayer of salvation to say. I simply said aloud, "If that is true I want it." I wasn't even bright enough, while  being confronted by an angel and awakened by the Holy Spirit  to what I was facing, to say anything better than "If it is true" Wow what an idiot I was.  Yet God had mercy on me as part of His mercy from everlasting to everlasting.

I do understand that each  of us come  to accept salvation that are called to do so and foreknown and predestined too. I am unaware that any one way to receive that call  is the one correct one while other ways  may be incorrect.

God does what what does.  I can't make a box big enough to hold, limit, and exhibit, His ways and power. He is awesome!

[kwikphilly]

13 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Well,  because I have a unique to me background perhaps I have a unique view too.  I had to "study" religion, belief, and application of it all  for years as I was the go between for families many times a year as they suffered the death and loss of beloved family members. I dealt with most every type of religion one can find in the greater Los Angeles County area anyway.

More often than not I had to sellect  speaker for families for the funerals and then relate to the speaker what I could about the family and the person that had died. I did that as many as five times a day for years. Yet I was an atheist.

Later the families would come to me and as about words,  phrases verse references for grave stone commentary too. I would help them  even correcting spelling. 

All that as background to state:  It meant absolutely nothing to me other than to do my duty  in providing service, for I did not comprehend that Jesus is Lord, God and savior of those that are foreknown and predestined to be turned about from sin against God to my worship of Him.  

That change came not by the word, but in response to prayer to the Word Jesus by others that had prayed for me and even read me the Bible when I was quite young.

 I was, I think, 32 years old when the Holy Spirit challenged me directly,. Dumbstruck, I was turned about from my determined rejection of God in a  twinkling's time.

None of my background mattered; it was me versus the Holy Spirit, round one- no contest instant knockout. I lost, and gained life eternal with God.  - Not of my own  doing, not of my understanding at all, but because God answers prayer. I had been prayed for by those that had loved me and had faith that God answers prayer.

I didn't even have a magic prayer of salvation to say. I simply said aloud, "If that is true I want it." I wasn't even bright enough, while  being confronted by an angel and awakened by the Holy Spirit  to what I was facing, to say anything better than "If it is true" Wow what an idiot I was.  Yet God had mercy on me as part of His mercy from everlasting to everlasting.

I do understand that each  of us come  to accept salvation that are called to do so and foreknown and predestined too. I am unaware that any one way to receive that call  is the one correct one while other ways  may be incorrect.

God does what what does.  I can't make a box big enough to hold, limit, and exhibit, His ways and power. He is awesome!

Okay- so you Believe one is Predestined to be Saved? Is that what you are saying?A selected individual created for Salvation? Pow,don't know what hit em?

I'm asking in all sincerity,not poking fun... But that is off Topic &:best for another Thread-a simple yes or no will do or no response is fine as well,not to derail this Awesome Topic!

In His Love,Kwik

 

[DeighAnn]

16 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Yes! I think you will find 1 Corinthians 2 in it's entirety will verify that assertion for you, with emphasis on verse 14;

Amplified Bible
But the natural [unbelieving] man does not accept the things [the teachings and revelations] of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness [absurd and illogical] to him; and he is incapable of understanding them, because they are spiritually discerned and appreciated, [and he is unqualified to judge spiritual matters].

 

The natural man can read and read and read to no avail. Without the impetus of the specific call  from the Holy Spirit that will be no turning about and no salvation. Without that there is no understanding.

Conversely no understanding is necessary to receive hear and heed that call by the Holy Spirit to one's salvation.
 

The word verifies this

 

Are you saying we can know God without knowing the Bible?  Sorry if I am being thick,

but I hear read and read and NOT understand,

and don't know if that does or doesn't go with read and read and UNDERSTAND

or

not read and read yet still understand. 

 

[farouk]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Are you saying we can know God without knowing the Bible?  Sorry if I am being thick,

but I hear read and read and NOT understand,

and don't know if that does or doesn't go with read and read and UNDERSTAND

or

not read and read yet still understand. 

 

@DeighAnn I do love the end of 1 Peter 1: "....begotten...by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever'......